The most useless yet highly discussed stat in pool

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm gonna a take a guess here - I think the OP was just trying to say a 400 ball run and 5 bucks will get you a cup of Starbucks coffee but not necessarily trying to diminish John's incredible feat. If this is correct then I agree with the OP, if he's not saying that then I completely disagree. I personally don't really care for st right pool - neither playing it nor watching it but I do respect it and certainly respect anyone who plays it at an elite level.

400 is definitely most impressive! Add in a US Open and that should tell you everything you need to know about John. But even more so than his accomplishments on the table, I really like him as I've always found John to be one of the nicest and most down to earth pros anywhere. As brought up in the recent " Mosconi " thread about someone breaking the record, well if there were to be a competition or prize for doing so I'd out my money on John doing it first . This is really sad but my high run is 29 lolol! Of course I don't play the game and I'd really like to believe I can do at least a little better than that but nine the less 400 just seems like a different world to me and I imagine most people as well. Kind of interesting , when I first started taking pool serious way back in my early teens I actually liked straight pool and played it often as my game of choice. ( that's when I got my 29!!!! Lololol). Anyhow, I have countless 14's but that dan break ball always got me. It was aways one of two things - either I didn't plan well enough to leave me a good break shot OR ( and this was most common ) I'd have a decent one but always felt the need to hit it at warp speed to obliterate the rack lol, often resulting in a miss.

The last game of 14.1 I played was right before leaving for SBE '14. I stopped in Big Daddys to try to get in stroke a little and this was right after I snapped someone and the room owner off playing onehole. There was only one other guy in there as it was early. He would not gamble, AND he only wanted to play straights. Normally for either of these two reasons I would have declined but I said what the hell, haven't played straight pool in 20 years so why not. The guy seemed decent enough. I have no real way of knowing but I'm confident I would crush him playing one hole - even 9 ball but 14.1 was this guy's game and he left himself good break shots and that was the difference. As stayed earlier , I had plenty of 10'space - 14's but no real runs. He beat me 150- 110 ish with a high run of 30 something I think. It was actually kind of fun. Maybe I'll play another game of it sometime before the next 20 years...... maybe .
 

wesand24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If he devoted himself entirely to pool, he would be the best every year in pool, but he doesn't.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You lost all credibility when you said "highly discussed' -Stop replaying that Accu-Stats tape where it is mentioned twice
 
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Z-Nole

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So what is the most overused and over rated stat in pool? I'm can't really think of a good example.
 

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
closing in on record

I have decided to devote all playing time to breaking Mosconi's record. It is
quite a struggle, and I can see how it is still standing after all these years.
After a few weeks I ran 192, but missed the 13 ball that would have put me
at 205. On my very next try I got 2 racks for 240 but did not make a ball on
the break on the 3rd rack. BUMMER!! Got too break harder and better if I'm
going to do it. Wish me luck. I will keep you guys informed.
jack
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
I have decided to devote all playing time to breaking Mosconi's record. It is
quite a struggle, and I can see how it is still standing after all these years.
After a few weeks I ran 192, but missed the 13 ball that would have put me
at 205. On my very next try I got 2 racks for 240 but did not make a ball on
the break on the 3rd rack. BUMMER!! Got too break harder and better if I'm
going to do it. Wish me luck. I will keep you guys informed.
jack

Hmmm....I think you multiplied when you should have divided by zero and carried the 1.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I was going to say something quite harsh, but instead I'm going to make an attempt to educate you...
The high run stat is not at all useless, in fact I find it to be a near linear correlation between a persons high run and their overall skill, if the high run is recent AND the person has played a sufficient amount of straight pool.

A top professional will usually have a high run above 200, or at least very close. A run approaching 400 is exceptionally rare, even among professionals, even in the era of straight pool dominance. That should tell you something, but apparently it doesn't....
A very good amateur may also approach the 200 mark.
Even a person who rarely plays the game, will probably have run 100 if that person is an A player. B-C players are all over the map, but B-players are usually a bit below 100 and C players have maybe got 50 or slightly less. I don't know any C players with an above 70 ball high run, and above 50 is rare too.

The anomalies happen when the person never plays straight pool and doesn't really know how to play the game. Then you find the rare A player who has a suspiciously low high run. That doesn't really prove anything. There is some (but a lot less than rotation games) luck in straight pool, so a C player may, if he plays straight pool exclusively eventually get a nice high run with all the rolls in his favor, but that is also rare. Instead, they're mostly around the 30-40 mark, if that.

I don't know what you really mean by the statement that the high run is "useless". Have you ever met a pathetic, helpless player with a recent 100 ball run? I haven't. When a person has run 100 balls recently, there's a pretty good chance he's no pushover in any pool game, because during such a run almost every kind of shot is likely to come up.

Some people just don't play a lot of tournaments. Playing well in tournaments is a skill set in itself, and is not always completely correlated to technical prowess. Sometimes someone gets all the rolls through a tournaments and you get strange, unlikely winners, especially in games like 9 ball. Does that mean that they are superior to the technically brilliant players who choked or got unlucky on that day? Of course not. I know a guy that NEVER plays tournaments, but is a feared opponent of any player in my pool hall. Shall I tell him he's unskilled and all his training is useless?

I'm almost on the complete opposite of the spectrum compared to you, when it comes to judging the importance of tournaments and high runs. I have at times not entered tournaments, because I knew in advance that the best players were going to stay home. Winning such a tournament would be completely meaningless to me. I'm interested in becoming skilled at the game, not aquiring useless pieces of metal to throw in the back of my closet. A medal doesn't really prove ANYTHING of value, especially in 9 ball, unless of course it's a US Open or WPC medal, but that is quite different from the typical tournament. Winning a 9 ball tournament is dependent on your luck of the draw, opponents performance, rolls, and of course your own performance. We're playing races to 7 here. A race to 7 in 9 ball is as good as a coin toss between players that are even remotely closely matched but that is a fairly typical length of a race, some are even shorter. A straight pool run is almost solely dependent on your performance and to a very small extent; rolls.
 
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Mr. Bond

Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
I was going to say something quite harsh, but instead I'm going to make an attempt to educate you...
The high run stat is not at all useless, in fact I find it to be a near linear correlation between a persons high run and their overall skill, if the high run is recent AND the person has played a sufficient amount of straight pool.

A top professional will usually have a high run above 200, or at least very close. A run approaching 400 is exceptionally rare, even among professionals, even in the era of straight pool dominance. That should tell you something, but apparently it doesn't....
A very good amateur may also approach the 200 mark.
Even a person who rarely plays the game, will probably have run 100 if that person is an A player. B-C players are all over the map, but B-players are usually a bit below 100 and C players have maybe got 50 or slightly less. I don't know any C players with an above 70 ball high run, and above 50 is rare too.

The anomalies happen when the person never plays straight pool and doesn't really know how to play the game. Then you find the rare A player who has a suspiciously low high run. That doesn't really prove anything. There is some (but a lot less than rotation games) luck in straight pool, so a C player may, if he plays straight pool exclusively eventually get a nice high run with all the rolls in his favor, but that is also rare. Instead, they're mostly around the 30-40 mark, if that.

I don't know what you really mean by the statement that the high run is "useless". Have you ever met a pathetic, helpless player with a recent 100 ball run? I haven't. When a person has run 100 balls recently, there's a pretty good chance he's no pushover in any pool game, because during such a run almost every kind of shot is likely to come up.

Some people just don't play a lot of tournaments. Playing well in tournaments is a skill set in itself, and is not always completely correlated to technical prowess. Sometimes someone gets all the rolls through a tournaments and you get strange, unlikely winners, especially in games like 9 ball. Does that mean that they are superior to the technically brilliant players who choked or got unlucky on that day? Of course not. I know a guy that NEVER plays tournaments, but is a feared opponent of any player in my pool hall. Shall I tell him he's unskilled and all his training is useless?

I'm almost on the complete opposite of the spectrum compared to you, when it comes to judging the importance of tournaments and high runs. I have at times not entered tournaments, because I knew in advance that the best players were going to stay home. Winning such a tournament would be completely meaningless to me. I'm interested in becoming skilled at the game, not aquiring useless pieces of metal to throw in the back of my closet. A medal doesn't really prove ANYTHING of value, especially in 9 ball, unless of course it's a US Open or WPC medal, but that is quite different from the typical tournament. Winning a 9 ball tournament is dependent on your luck of the draw, opponents performance, rolls, and of course your own performance. We're playing races to 7 here. A race to 7 in 9 ball is as good as a coin toss between players that are even remotely closely matched but that is a fairly typical length of a race, some are even shorter. A straight pool run is almost solely dependent on your performance and to a very small extent; rolls.

I must agree.
Anyone - I repeat - Anyone who can run 400 together has damn near experienced every possible shot and knows exactly how to get back to center table.

Run 100 on me and wow that's insane.
Run 200 and holy cow what did you eat for breakfast?

Run 400 ? Wtf just happened? Dead stroke.
Personally I don't care if it's at home or in an event, if you show me a video of you running 400+, you have my respect.
 

Dognit

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To the OP...

Id suggest a nice wager on a 400 pt 14.1 game with JS.

I bet it would be a more memorable stat...for one of you.
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
For the op
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