Not sure if it is. Here are some pictures of it. Thinking of having it refinished and also getting it looked at by Rubino or someone who knows Frank's work.
Possible Paradise?
- Thread starter Fast Lenny
- Start date
Paradise cues were not built with bumpers or bumper screws, so that wouldn't disqualify it as a Paradise.
However, Frank P did not tend to do too many full window buttsleeves, and the joint screw is a bit short for a Paradise.
These are not typical joint rings for Paradise either.
Do you know the size of the joint screw? Paradise was 5/16 X 18.
Abe Rich is a possibility, though there are some other possibilities.
All the best,
WW
However, Frank P did not tend to do too many full window buttsleeves, and the joint screw is a bit short for a Paradise.
These are not typical joint rings for Paradise either.
Do you know the size of the joint screw? Paradise was 5/16 X 18.
Abe Rich is a possibility, though there are some other possibilities.
All the best,
WW
Wish you luck, I have a twin to it and I have been trying for years to get it identified. I have had it at SBE a couple of times and all kinds of opinions. National, Rich, Paradise and a guy on here had another one for sale calling it a Paradise sneaky pete. I have seen 3 others at the Expo and all three were being called Paradise, to many coincidences as far as i am concerned! I believe it to be a Paradise for those reasons. :thumbup: Please pm me if you find out from Rubino.
It gets interesting, doesn't it?
I don't think either is a Paradise. Frank Paradise used 5/16 X 18 thread pins, which I don't think either of these are. They look more like 14 thread, but the owners would have the measure them.
Also, Frank did not use Delrin, at least that I am aware. If there are some, they are very few. The first cue here is definitely Delrin; the second, I think so, maybe a bit aged. Again, not used by Frank.
The joint pin says a lot. None of Frank's were this short out of the joint, that I'm aware.
I keep going back to the joint collar as well. It was not Frank's typical. His typical was either solid black or white plastic/phenolic, with the black ring on the outside of the collar. This does not resemble that.
I think it's someone else, and definitely not Rambow.
All the best,
WW
I don't think either is a Paradise. Frank Paradise used 5/16 X 18 thread pins, which I don't think either of these are. They look more like 14 thread, but the owners would have the measure them.
Also, Frank did not use Delrin, at least that I am aware. If there are some, they are very few. The first cue here is definitely Delrin; the second, I think so, maybe a bit aged. Again, not used by Frank.
The joint pin says a lot. None of Frank's were this short out of the joint, that I'm aware.
I keep going back to the joint collar as well. It was not Frank's typical. His typical was either solid black or white plastic/phenolic, with the black ring on the outside of the collar. This does not resemble that.
I think it's someone else, and definitely not Rambow.
All the best,
WW
This sounds like a lot of people wishing what they had was a Paradise instead of a Rich. Why? Because a Paradise is worth several hundred more dollars than an Abe Rich.
Def not a Paradise. Likely Rich or possibly Karl Mayer
This is what I call a Usual Suspects" cue.
I don't believe it is a Paradise. Rich comes up a lot on such cues...but I don't think this is Abe. Might be Rich et al.
Mayer? Again...maybe.
Since there seem to be several floating around I am suspecting it may be found in a catalog or brochure.
I am going to keep looking...
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I don't believe it is a Paradise. Rich comes up a lot on such cues...but I don't think this is Abe. Might be Rich et al.
Mayer? Again...maybe.
Since there seem to be several floating around I am suspecting it may be found in a catalog or brochure.
I am going to keep looking...
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When people want something to be something it isn't, and they believe it, you cannot educate them. If a dealer had one of these for sale as a Paradise, stay away from that dealer.
JV
JV
We do expect dealers to do their homework. That's part of the price. But no dealer knows all cues and occasionally a dealer is fooled.
But of course, the buyer should do his homework as well.
If a dealer seems to misrepresent a cue intentionally that's another matter.
But what's a dealer? There are no qualifications or certification. No license. If one has a distributor agreement with a maker, that's documentation, but we are talking about a different kind of thing here. Old cues.
There are plenty of cue flippers that I don't see as dealers, but probably some see them as dealers.
Caveat emptor always applies.
Which I have been saying for years... there are guys who know and guys just looking to flip, or "resell" (don't want to hurt anyones feelings) that do not know. But in this case, its pretty obvious.
But I do not disagree with your statement, as I have made a pretty penny on things passed on by dealers, that are just there to flip, and make a buck. (Who should have studied more)
JV
But I do not disagree with your statement, as I have made a pretty penny on things passed on by dealers, that are just there to flip, and make a buck. (Who should have studied more)
JV
Agree with that. I can't count the times I've told posters, you don't have a Bushka, you don't have a Paradise, and you don't have a Rambow. It comes with the territory.
All the best,
WW
Yup.
And then many will call it an Abe cue.
There were recently two Rich cues on Ebay as unknown "vintage" for 100 each. Nobody bid. Identical cue listed as Rich cue "Possibe Abe" and people are bidding on it. It will go over $100...maybe 150 to 180. It's a Rich Q New York, not Abe. But just mentioning the name gets attention.
There are so many possibilities, some very obscure, it can be hard to nail them down. Some were just branded and were made by Rich, National, AE Schmidt, Viking, and a myriad of others.
I do think the cues this thread is about are identifiable...we just gotta find one in a brochure or perhaps with an original label on it or something. We have seen a handful, so surely there are more.
I have seen cues with Sears stickers on them, Mongomery Ward stickers on them, and other such things that were definitely obviously Rich cues.
This one is something else...IMHO...
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Yep, I've seen that a lot on Ebay. The one Rich Q that I own show's up there from time to time and I don't ever remember anyone listing it as such. They usually list is as an Abe Rich cue or an unknown cue.
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=479318
There is your cue.... and RJB's cue... Don't easily dismiss someone with knowledge because your home run is really a foul tip...
JV
There is your cue.... and RJB's cue... Don't easily dismiss someone with knowledge because your home run is really a foul tip...
JV
Nice work Joe..
This now makes it a little harder to decide if a cue is Rich Q or Abe Rich as they can be pretty much identical. But at least it will slow down the false Bushka or Paradise claims.