9 ball spots, from weak to strong

KoolKat9Lives

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
A la poker: pair, 2 pair, 3 of a kind, etc... I'm looking for some help, so I know how to negotiate a spot with some confidence. Most golf matches are won on the first tee, and so too in billiards.

My knowledge of spots extends to:
the 8 ball, then the 7. But then it gets dicey. For instance:

- is it more of a spot to give the 7 and 8, or the 6?

how much of a change in odds occurs when a spot ball isn't wild, but must be called?

Thanks in advance

Matt
aspiring wannabe gonnabe hopetabee waitansee
 
instroke75

instroke75

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Spots really depend on the level of the players playing. Bangers need stuff to bang around, so the more wild balls the better off they are. Whereas making someone who can run out go to a lesser ball, is a bigger advantage for them!
Jeremy
 
KoolKat9Lives

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
Let's say the play is "decent" - say - an APA 8 vs a 6. The 6 may bang a bit, but not enough to make a huge difference on a wild ball.
 
akinnyz

akinnyz

Newest Go-Off in Phoenix!
Silver Member
Here's what I think the order of weight goes...

  • Safe 8 (almost never used anymore)
  • Last Two
  • Call 8
  • Wild 8
  • Last Three
  • Call 7
  • Wild 7
  • Last Four
  • Call 7 & 8
  • Wild 7 & 8
  • Call 6
  • Wild 6

Of course you can add the breaks to any of these to make the weight a little bigger... And for a break & run type player, I don't think the breaks should ever be sacrificed if you can get away with winner breaks.

Your original question about if the 6 ball is more weight than the 7/8 I believe to be yes.... however, the more wild balls on the table, usually, the more weight.

Make sure to work out BEFORE the first break if the wild balls count on the break, or if they're spotted... and what happens on wild balls in the event of a foul. The most common method for fouls is that if the person giving the weight fouls in a money ball, the money ball spots. If the person receiving the weight fouls a money ball in (other than the 9), it stays down.

Hope this helps!
 
M

masonh

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i like the last 4 and wild 7+8 over the call 6 or wild 6 myself,but it truly does depend on the player giving the weight.some guys seem to give up almost any spot.if they don't really miss then the spot doesn't really help the weaker player.
 
KoolKat9Lives

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
akinnyz said:
Here's what I think the order of weight goes...

  • Safe 8 (almost never used anymore)
  • Last Two
  • Call 8
  • Wild 8
  • Last Three
  • Call 7
  • Wild 7
  • Last Four
  • Call 7 & 8
  • Wild 7 & 8
  • Call 6
  • Wild 6

Of course you can add the breaks to any of these to make the weight a little bigger... And for a break & run type player, I don't think the breaks should ever be sacrificed if you can get away with winner breaks.

Your original question about if the 6 ball is more weight than the 7/8 I believe to be yes.... however, the more wild balls on the table, usually, the more weight.

Make sure to work out BEFORE the first break if the wild balls count on the break, or if they're spotted... and what happens on wild balls in the event of a foul. The most common method for fouls is that if the person giving the weight fouls in a money ball, the money ball spots. If the person receiving the weight fouls a money ball in (other than the 9), it stays down.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

Excellent. Thanks! I wonder though, on your list you have "the last three" as a weaker spot than the 7. I can't reconcile how the last 3 is weaker than the 7.

Aside : we've all seen some novice step up to a poker table at some point and ask "can I play too?" and then ask "what beats what?". After you :rolleyes:, give an under the breath "oh Jeez - there goes the neighborhood", you evaluate out how much rent they have, and then you give them the list. I feel like that noob... :eek: (but you can't learn if you don't ask)

I'm off to tape my 17 ball ghost and 3 ball "Andy" drill.... :grin-square:
 
akinnyz

akinnyz

Newest Go-Off in Phoenix!
Silver Member
KoolKat9Lives said:
Excellent. Thanks! I wonder though, on your list you have "the last three" as a weaker spot than the 7. I can't reconcile how the last 3 is weaker than the 7.
Click to expand...

The last three... being any of the last three balls on the table is a tad weaker because of the lack of a wild ball.

There are a couple of variations on the last three as well. Most of the time the last three are ANY of the last three balls on the table... But some play the 7-8-9 balls ONLY and IN ROTATION. Meaning, that if the 7 or 8 ball is pocketed during the break or the course of the rack, the person getting the weight looses that ball as weight. Its a little more confusing, and a whole lot less weight.

Any time you get wild balls on the table though, the weight goes up SUBSTANTIALLY!
 
Nick B

Nick B

This is gonna hurt
Silver Member
I've been playing a while...but what is "safe 8"?
Nick

akinnyz said:
Here's what I think the order of weight goes...

  • Safe 8 (almost never used anymore)
  • Last Two
  • Call 8
  • Wild 8
  • Last Three
  • Call 7
  • Wild 7
  • Last Four
  • Call 7 & 8
  • Wild 7 & 8
  • Call 6
  • Wild 6

Of course you can add the breaks to any of these to make the weight a little bigger... And for a break & run type player, I don't think the breaks should ever be sacrificed if you can get away with winner breaks.

Your original question about if the 6 ball is more weight than the 7/8 I believe to be yes.... however, the more wild balls on the table, usually, the more weight.

Make sure to work out BEFORE the first break if the wild balls count on the break, or if they're spotted... and what happens on wild balls in the event of a foul. The most common method for fouls is that if the person giving the weight fouls in a money ball, the money ball spots. If the person receiving the weight fouls a money ball in (other than the 9), it stays down.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...
 
Craig Fales

Craig Fales

Registered bubinga user
Silver Member
KoolKat9Lives said:
Excellent. Thanks! I wonder though, on your list you have "the last three" as a weaker spot than the 7. I can't reconcile how the last 3 is weaker than the 7.

Aside : we've all seen some novice step up to a poker table at some point and ask "can I play too?" and then ask "what beats what?". After you :rolleyes:, give an under the breath "oh Jeez - there goes the neighborhood", you evaluate out how much rent they have, and then you give them the list. I feel like that noob... :eek: (but you can't learn if you don't ask)

I'm off to tape my 17 ball ghost and 3 ball "Andy" drill.... :grin-square:
Click to expand...
I would say the last three is a more weight than just the 7. :wink:

Dead Crab said:
Please define "wild"

Thanks.
Click to expand...
You don't have to call the pocket, slop is allowed.
 
Roadkill

Roadkill

Retired Pool Hustler
Silver Member
Anyone ever play the hand-span cue ball spot? The guy getting the spot gets to move the cueball up to a full hand span after each shot.
 
dabarbr

dabarbr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
arsenius said:
What do you do in a tie? Just play another game?
Click to expand...
Just play another game as if the tie game never happened.

I agree also that giving up the break is a bad move if you are spotting someone. It's not what they can do with the break, it's the racks that you can't string without it.
 
akinnyz

akinnyz

Newest Go-Off in Phoenix!
Silver Member
Roadkill said:
Anyone ever play the hand-span cue ball spot? The guy getting the spot gets to move the cueball up to a full hand span after each shot.
Click to expand...

I have SEEN it... but I have never been able to get anyone to give it to me.

I have also seen the "Cocktail straw" spot. Basically the same thing.. you can move the cue ball the length of a straw at the bar you're playing in.
 
td873

td873

C is for Cookie
Silver Member
  • Safe 8 (almost never used anymore)
  • Last Two
  • Call 8
  • Wild 8
  • Last Three
  • Call 7
  • Wild 7
  • Last Four
  • Call 7 & 8
  • Wild 7 & 8
  • Call 6
  • Wild 6
Click to expand...
Another set of factors not in the above "chart" are the breaks (not in any order)

last 2 and the breaks vs call 8; or
call 8 and the breaks vs wild-8; or
call 7 and call 8 + breaks vs wild 7 call 8, or
call 7 wild 8;
well, you get the idea - just add "and the breaks" to anything in the chart above.

If you give up the breaks, I would stress that you agree that wild balls on the break do not count as wins as part of the exchange for the breaks. Especially if your opponent is not going to string racks on you. Common wisdom has taught that you should rack the spot balls directly behind the head ball - but this should only be used if the ball is a winner for your opponent on the breaks. If you stipulate those balls don't count on the break, you can work the percentages in your favor.

Below is some advice I posted many moons ago for those giving up weight:
td873:Aug 2006 said:
Here are two tips that will help the new gamblers out there - one is pretty standard, the other is a little less known:

1) If you are giving "wild" weight in nine-ball (like the 7 or the 7-out [where making the 7 on any shot is a win for your opponent]) - put those balls directly behind the one when racking. The second row of balls have the LEAST tendency to go in after the break.

2) This is the advanced part: I always try to stipulate that the spot ball doesn't count as a win on the break (the nine would still count as a win though). Most players will agree, thinking you will put the ball behind the head ball anyway. BUT - you should rack the spot ball as a wing ball on the side of the table your opponent breaks from. If the table plays to your favor, he'll make the ball 10-30% of the time (on some tables, it's more like 50%!). Then - it will go on the SPOT. So you will know for some percentage of the games exactly where the spot ball will be - on the SPOT. This will eliminate some of those early combos on the wild ball, and on occasion - will even lock up the nine (when it's made on a scratch).

This really helps to even out the spot on tables where the wing ball goes frequently, since it adds a ball to the table. That is, if the 3 was on the wing, your opponent would only have to make 5 balls before he was on his money ball. If the 7 is on the wing, he would still have to make all 6 (adding another 20% of difficulty to his running out) - AND the 7 would be on the spot - NO HANGERS!!

There is an entire art to working up a spot. Part 2 above is a very subtle, yet effective way to even out what you give away.
Click to expand...
 
GMAC

GMAC

Flip it.
Silver Member
akinnyz said:
Here's what I think the order of weight goes...

  • Safe 8 (almost never used anymore)
  • Last Two
  • Call 8
  • Wild 8
  • Last Three
  • Call 7
  • Wild 7
  • Last Four
  • Call 7 & 8
  • Wild 7 & 8
  • Call 6
  • Wild 6

Of course you can add the breaks to any of these to make the weight a little bigger... And for a break & run type player, I don't think the breaks should ever be sacrificed if you can get away with winner breaks.

Your original question about if the 6 ball is more weight than the 7/8 I believe to be yes.... however, the more wild balls on the table, usually, the more weight.

Make sure to work out BEFORE the first break if the wild balls count on the break, or if they're spotted... and what happens on wild balls in the event of a foul. The most common method for fouls is that if the person giving the weight fouls in a money ball, the money ball spots. If the person receiving the weight fouls a money ball in (other than the 9), it stays down.

Hope this helps!
Click to expand...

In a race to eleven how many games is on the wire is th 8 ball worth and how many games is the seven ball worth in your opinion?
 
akinnyz

akinnyz

Newest Go-Off in Phoenix!
Silver Member
just about a said:
In a race to eleven how many games is on the wire is th 8 ball worth and how many games is the seven ball worth in your opinion?
Click to expand...

Wow... there's an interesting question... Here's how I COULD calculate that, I suppose...

The same players that I give 3 games to 7, I can beat giving them the 7 ball. Usually by around the same score. Hill-Hill or a little better... maybe 7-4 or 7-5.

So, to 11 games? I would say the 7 ball is almost a 5 game on the wire advantage.... But again.. just answering via my experience with giving ball weight verses game weight.
 
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