I know nothing about cues - help me understand

watchez said:

I DO NOT WANT TO GET IN THE VARNEY ISSUE AND DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD AS PART OF THAT ISSUE but this quote by him had me trying to figure out what he was saying, so for my general knowledge purposes.......

"ebony hustler blank turned near finish size. It was one of the very nice old ebony Duff blanks. Truth is after turning it to final size...I simply was not happy with the way the points had gaps that looked to be filled with wood filler or such by Dufferin. I'm sure most players would of been fine with the cosmetics of the blank but I was not. I just didn't want anyone posting close up pics asking why the sides of a couple points had a "filler" veneer. So I started over from a oversize real ebony fullsplice and not a Duff blank. I now have the new blank finally turned to size "

so my questions are -

what is a blank? Does this mean the cue maker is not really 'making' the cue or the points? Is he using a house stick?

what is a real ebony fullsplice? does this have points 'pre made'

when a cuemaker talks about turned it to size, does that mean because a housestick is usually fatter than a normal playing cue?

how can I tell how my cue was made? and how many cuemakers use this technique?

Thanks for the responses (in advance).

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Sounds like he was using an old Dufferin ebony (full splice) house cue to convert to a sneaky pete. The ebony Dufferins are not common, so if one got messed up, it would be pretty hard to locate another.

A Dufferin house cue is oversize but it's not actually a "blank". Blanks are really just a pre fabricated oversize cue handle that's unfinished, with or without points, in a variety of splice techniques, full or short.

A great deal of cue makers do buy the blanks offered by Schmelke and Prather. They come in full splice and short splice versions, with and without veneers.

I would say most of the sneaky pete's and a lot of customs you see are made from these blanks.

As far as telling if your cue is made from a blank, you can ask the cue maker and may or may not get an answer.

Chris

watchez said:

Thanks Tate-

So the cuemakers that are using these blanks with points and veneers - what are they really making? I am not trying to discount a cuemaker but if that is what is being used, I seem to be missing where some of the expertise lies.

I made a spindle table in the 8th grade woodshop that took first in the state. Maybe I am an expert cuemaker and just don't know it.

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Keep saying you are, somebody will believe you:wink:

house cue cut down to make 2-piece cue=conversion or sneaky petes

watchez said:

Thanks Tate-

So the cuemakers that are using these blanks with points and veneers - what are they really making? I am not trying to discount a cuemaker but if that is what is being used, I seem to be missing where some of the expertise lies.

I made a spindle table in the 8th grade woodshop that took first in the state. Maybe I am an expert cuemaker and just don't know it.

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There's been a lot of discussion about this. Making a true full splice cue is a lot of work, it's difficult to do well, and it's a big, big mess. It requires jigs, etc. and is better suited to making a small production run than to build one at a time. I don't think it's practical for sneaky pete's, which are relatively inexpensive and should be banged out in a short time.

Chris

Ps. I do, however, have a great admiration for the guys who can build their own sneakies!

Maybe some pictures would help. I too have no clue about these things. Someone says full splice, short splice Butterfly etc, I know we are talking techniques. I wouldn't know a full splice if I saw one.
Terms like quilted, spalted etal in reference to wood is also a mystery to me. Maybe I would be able to better identify the cue I like if I knew what I was talking about.

Maybe this should be in the ask the cuemaker section.

Hope this will turn into an informative thread as well.

B

I personally like old duffern conversions. Think they make a great playing cue when the shaft, joint, finish size, tapers, ferrule, and even the tip is done right.

Most sneaky style cues are made from a blank that isn't made by the cuemaker. Their are exceptions, but not very many. Most of the ones that make their own would probably prefer we not call them sneakys, but full splice cues.


The cuemaker is supplying the joint material, tapers, ferrule, finish, shaft, rings, tip etc. Taking something partially already done and turning it into a customized cue.

cubswin said:

I personally like old duffern conversions. Think they make a great playing cue when the shaft, joint, finish size, tapers, ferrule, and even the tip is done right.

Most sneaky style cues are made from a blank that isn't made by the cuemaker. Their are exceptions, but not very many. Most of the ones that make their own would probably prefer we not call them sneakys, but full splice cues.

The cuemaker is supplying the joint material, tapers, ferrule, finish, shaft, rings, tip etc. Taking something partially already done and turning it into a customized cue.

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So are you saying that the "full splice" cue would look like a one piece cue with the points being part of the butt (handle?) of the cue?

Someone needs to post some pics.

B

DelaWho??? said:

So are you saying that the "full splice" cue would look like a one piece cue with the points being part of the butt (handle?) of the cue?

Someone needs to post some pics.

B

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maybe this will help you understand a little bit. http://www.bearcues.com/fullsplicecue.htm

And yes and once piece house cue would be a full splice

~wondering when this got moved to this forum~

Most Qmakers create all or the majority of the pieces, that make up their Qs. The exception is the FULL SPLICE. It takes some special jigs & tooling that is not part of the norm, of a Qmakers tooling. These full spliced Qs represent a SMALL percentage of our Q production. I used to make my own & now I buy my oversized blanks from a builder, that I trust to make a BLANK, that I can convert to a finished Q. The butt of a Q , in my opinion, is a small part of the feel & playability of the finished Q. Therefore the most important part of the Q is the shaft (with it's taper), the ferrule & the tip. A good Qmaker can create a GREAT playing Q from a full splice, oversized blank, because of his knowledge of how a Q is made & how he can create his "HIT" with this raw material...JER

for the price of wood and time spent it almost a no brainer to just buy them. i am not one for cutting corners but in this case i do. its no easy take at all.

Watches, if you want to understand how a cue is made invest some money in your education and buy the book Chris Hightower sells.
After reading it you can come back here and tell others the proper way to make the best hitting cue in the world.

Hey Watchez, Kevin Varney was being upfront (possibly too candid) about the problems that occur with using Dufferin or other pete or house cue type blanks. I've seen/ worked with the gaps and putty used in the cue blanks when helping to make sneaky petes from Dufferin and older Valley blanks or butts. Seperation of point wood from maple can occur even with better sneaky pete type blanks but I've seen much less of that with Schmelke made blanks (I rate them among the very best for pete type cues). It sounded to me that once Kevin saw the Dufferin blank wasn't going to work he began turning a better piece from another maker, quite possibly Schmelke. I respect that he wouldn't let a turd cue out of the shop. Very few makers bother to make full splice blanks without veneers. Although I have not played with a KV cue, his build quality looks real crisp. JMO, ICBW.

Martin

watchez said:

Gee Willie, if I wanted to read an entire book than I guess I should just ask that this entire thread get deleted.

Or maybe I touched a nerve. I will add Willie to the list that uses premade blanks - and maybe even premade shafts.

I must be missing something. To me, a cuemaker using blanks 'because it takes to long to create' is like a chef using Ragu sauce out of a jar,

Seems like I could buy a premade blank, a premade shaft, some sand paper, some stain and have my own cue line that would be like many others. Someone tell me what I am missing in this thought process.

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deleted.....

Or maybe I touched a nerve. I will add Willie to the list that uses premade blanks

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he and 400 others.as far as sneaky petes go hardly anyone makes their own blanks.

watchez said:

Gee Willie, if I wanted to read an entire book than I guess I should just ask that this entire thread get deleted.

Or maybe I touched a nerve. I will add Willie to the list that uses premade blanks - and maybe even premade shafts.

I must be missing something. To me, a cuemaker using blanks 'because it takes to long to create' is like a chef using Ragu sauce out of a jar,

Seems like I could buy a premade blank, a premade shaft, some sand paper, some stain and have my own cue line that would be like many others. Someone tell me what I am missing in this thought process.

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Because the cuemaker buys his wood instead of growing it, harvesting it, drying it over a hot fire, cutting it, forging the hot metal into joint pins, making the polymers for the ferrules in their kitchen, raise the cow, butcher it for the leather to tan and make tips out of, etc. Does that make him less of a cuemaker or the quality of his product less?
The equipment required to make fullsplice cues is not cheap, and not small in size, which eats up space in a small shop, as most cuemakers have. Also, the amount of setup time to make a run of these is considerable. The expertise needed to repeatedly make a quality fullsplice blank is huge. Alot of wood is wasted just trying to dial in the jigs and machines perfectly so that the blanks come out perfect. Most cuemakers simply don't have the time, nor the space, nor the money to waste doing this. How far back would the wait lists be if all had to make their own blanks? Not to mention the price increase to cover all the additional costs. Even great cuemakers like 'Buska' used blanks, made by people who specialized in them. Does that mean he was a hack who was too lazy to make it himself? Or someone who wanted to provide the best he could and realized others were better at making that part than he. He chose to use the best part availible to put the best product out to his customers.
If you think it so easy to buy your own parts and make your own cue line, go ahead. Hope you have a lot of time on your hands and money to replace all the 'blanks' you end up burning because they end up like Kaka. Alot of work, machines, money and patience is required to make a quality cue, whether it's from a pre-bought blank, or a blank made by the maker himself. A butt blank is just a starting point, the maker buys all the parts, from wood to pins, etc. Then assembles these parts into a beautiful work of art.
A premade butt blank is oversized, length and diameter wise. It still takes considerably time to slowly cut it down properly, and precisely, while still maintaining the accuracy of the points, and stability of the wood. Then there is the making of the joint collars, rings, butt sleeves, etc. Won't even get into the making of a shaft from scratch. Untill you've tried it, or seen it in person, I wouldn't recommend making too many blanket statements about how easy it is or imply that the cuemaker is less of a maker because they use a blank to start with.
If you really want to understand the whole thing, then you really need to read Chris's book as Willie suggested, maybe a few others also, and then buy some videos.
Just my opinion....
Dave

masonh said:

he and 400 others.as far as sneaky petes go hardly anyone makes their own blanks.

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I'd think it will be easier to to track cue makers making their own full splice blanks and there aren't too many (as far as I know).