Things Are Getting Interesting in Manila!

I'm pretty sure BMPAP will have a provision to cover that.
Without Efren and company, there is no way for BMPAP to recover their cost of holding World 9 ( I believe it costs $3M ).

Bloody poolitics!!

In just about every pool playing country in the world during every decade since the 60's at least, at some stage bloody poolitics rears its disgusting scabby head. Always some jobsworths fighting their petty little wars at one level or another.

Call me cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if this Phillipines power struggle is what is at the root of the Alex Pagulayan court case as well.

JAM said:

The way I understand it -- and I may be wrong -- is that one entity is recognized by the WPA.

The rule to compete in the WPC is that the players must be in good standing with the WPA-recognized Filipino organizational entity.

Another Filipino organizational entity has the Filipino government on its side.

Both Filipino entities right now are butting heads.

The Filipino players are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. I think that the coming days will be interesting, to say the least!

JAM

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huh? i think bandido has a better answer to this... :thumbup:

JoeyInCali said:

I'm pretty sure BMPAP will have a provision to cover that.
Without Efren and company, there is no way for BMPAP to recover their cost of holding World 9 ( I believe it costs $3M ).

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No Joey, the BMPAP doesn't need to recover the cost of holding the WPA. Tell me, if we decided to give back to ESPN the advertising slots and also decide NOT to charge people to watch the events LIVE at the venue do you think we're after recovering the cost to produce the WPC let alone make a profit from it?

We're doing this privately funded so if we want to give this as a gift to all Filipino Pool enthusiast then we can do so and nobody can say otherwise.

Preparations will carry-on no matter what. The title of the article above just pertains to what we're going to call this event. Hopefully everything will turn out fine at the finalization of the deal so we can call the event WPC. If not, we may just call it the Joey Open j/k.

What must be considered is the WPA regulation that players in WPA events must be in good standing with their home organizations.

What if.....the WPA recognized home organization isn't in good standing with the host country's Government? Or gets abolished by the government because of the multitude of lawsuits that it faces? Or how about something from WPA Constitution.

Article 8. Resignation, Suspension and Expulsion
8.1 Termination
Membership of the WPA shall terminate by:
i) Demise of a member.
ii) A Voting Member no longer being the only and/or leading pool-billiard
organisation in its territory.
iii) Resignation: A member may withdraw from membership of the WPA
upon a resolution passed by the appropriate authority of the member
withdrawing, provided at the time of resignation the member has no
outstanding liabilities to the WPA.
iv) Suspension or Expulsion: Any membership may be suspended or
terminated. Sufficient cause for suspension or expulsion of membership
shall be violation of the statutes or any lawful role or practice duly
adopted by the WPA; by bringing the sport of pool-billiards into
disrepute; or failing to meet its financial obligations towards the WPA.
Suspension shall be by a two-thirds majority vote of the Board of
Directors and will come into force immediately or at a time specified.
Expulsion shall be by a two thirds majority vote of a GA or EGA.
v) Right to vote: Only members not being considered for suspension or
expulsion shall be allowed to vote.
vi) Automatic Termination: Any membership will automatically terminate
if that member is two years or more in arrears with their dues or any
other financial obligation.

memikey said:

Bloody poolitics!!

In just about every pool playing country in the world during every decade since the 60's at least, at some stage bloody poolitics rears its disgusting scabby head. Always some jobsworths fighting their petty little wars at one level or another.

Call me cynical but I wouldn't be surprised if this Phillipines power struggle is what is at the root of the Alex Pagulayan court case as well.

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I beg to differ! The Alex Pagulayan issue was the last straw that eventually led to the AP court case. You should've seen Alex back then when he was very much troubled by the "sharking" accusation. No matter how hard he tried to ignore such accusation he just was so lost. He was living life like it was a ship without a rudder. He lost all of his match-ups and was always drowning his woes. What a wreck he was!

That should never ever happen again to any human being.

Well, if Ian Anderson, Gre Leenders and company in the WPA decides to ban Efren Reyes, Django, Gomez, Alcano, Orcullo etc from playing the World 9-ball Championship in the Philippines, I believe they've got some big balls.

They will NEVER even think of doing such a thing. If they do, THEY shoot themselves in the foot.

Hey! Why is it that only three(3) federations show under the WCBS in the WPA Organisational Chart. http://www.wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=member when there are four(4) in the WCBS Organisation Chart http://www.billiard-wcbs.org/ ! What gives???!!! What's this fourth federation that WPA excluded in their chart? WPBSA or World PROFESSIONAL Billiard and Snooker Association? Why can't POOL have a World Professional POOL Association?

Can't we all just get along?

I know, I know. I am the eternal optimist. But the Pollyanna in me thinks this is a great reason for the BMPAP and the BSCP to mend their relationship. They both have something that the other needs. The BMPAP has the players and the BSCP has WPA connections and an easier path for obtaining big-money international tournaments. A symbiotic relationship seems like the way to go.

As these two organizations go about the process of embarrassing and denigrating one another the one true victim is Philippine pool in the eyes of the world. As it always seems in these pool political battles, it is the players who suffer, not the principals. The rule is: "The children will continue to be beaten until their parents settle the issue."

Jerry Forsyth said:

I know, I know. I am the eternal optimist. But the Pollyanna in me thinks this is a great reason for the BMPAP and the BSCP to mend their relationship. They both have something that the other needs. The BMPAP has the players and the BSCP has WPA connections and an easier path for obtaining big-money international tournaments. A symbiotic relationship seems like the way to go.

As these two organizations go about the process of embarrassing and denigrating one another the one true victim is Philippine pool in the eyes of the world. As it always seems in these pool political battles, it is the players who suffer, not the principals. The rule is: "The children will continue to be beaten until their parents settle the issue."

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My sentiments as well. at least, I hope the court case(s) can proceed without prejudice to the staging of the wpc....

Just my 2 cents

I would like to think that whichever organization is Gov't backed in it's respective country, should be the one that is given the WPA affiliation

I agree though with Jerry 100%, I would rather see some kind of agreement between the BSCP & BMPAP, where ALL players and organizers can find a compromise that is suitable to everyone in the Philippines

I really hope that you guys can get this sorted, good luck

Willie

Roy Steffensen said:

Well, if Ian Anderson, Gre Leenders and company in the WPA decides to ban Efren Reyes, Django, Gomez, Alcano, Orcullo etc from playing the World 9-ball Championship in the Philippines, I believe they've got some big balls.

They will NEVER even think of doing such a thing. If they do, THEY shoot themselves in the foot.

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Pool or any other sporting events are about the abilities of its participants and how the show is presented, which is the promoters responsibility, comes only second to it. And that is the hard truth.

I ask the worldwide pool community now, is it easier to create a world-class athlete or a promotion company?

Why do people think that this is about politics? What about the rights of the players? Maybe the heirarchy and priorities of the pool world is eschewed and the reason why pool as a sport can't progress!

TheWizard said:

I would like to think that whichever organization is Gov't backed in it's respective country, should be the one that is given the WPA affiliation

I agree though with Jerry 100%, I would rather see some kind of agreement between the BSCP & BMPAP, where ALL players and organizers can find a compromise that is suitable to everyone in the Philippines

I really hope that you guys can get this sorted, good luck

Willie

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we could only keep our fingers crossed. greed and power is just to much temptation. crocodiles in suit. I've been hoping for the longest time that the Phil politics were as strictly implemented and followed as that of U.S. politics.

Jerry Forsyth said:

I know, I know. I am the eternal optimist. But the Pollyanna in me thinks this is a great reason for the BMPAP and the BSCP to mend their relationship. They both have something that the other needs. The BMPAP has the players and the BSCP has WPA connections and an easier path for obtaining big-money international tournaments. A symbiotic relationship seems like the way to go.

As these two organizations go about the process of embarrassing and denigrating one another the one true victim is Philippine pool in the eyes of the world. As it always seems in these pool political battles, it is the players who suffer, not the principals. The rule is: "The children will continue to be beaten until their parents settle the issue."

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We all want the same thing Jerry. We have been consistent, since the start, in our cries. It's either Yen leave BSCP and just run RAYA or get rid of RAYA and run the BSCP and be faithful to the Org's defined responsibilities. Go search news archives and you'll see the above. It may be too late now as arrogant steps have already been taken by them against us and it started with the Alex P issue, 10M question handling, maliscious text messages that contains character assasinations of our very pool heroes, the non-delivery or delay of tournament invitations and WADA documents that could've caused the player to be disqualified, the kicking out of BMPAP officials and players from the STAR Billiards venue of the Qualifiers, the middle of the qualifier changes and the non-qualifier Philippine representation slots. Maybe, Yen needs a little help deciding how to step down.

My assessment of what the bottomline is of all the above? CONTROL, EXPLOITATION and GREED!

I'm sorry but the players are actually enjoying themselves because of the increased number of tournaments. So, no, they are not suffering and we try our best to make sure of that.

My experience, over the years, has been that the players prefer NOT to be involved in organizational disputes. They would rather go where the money is, meaning they want to play in ALL tournaments offering decent purses. And let the politicos iron out their problems without them.

Regardless of any real or perceived slights or offenses, the fact remains that two associations in the Philippines are attempting to put on big money events. How they apportion the slots to the players seems to be at the crux of this problem. If this can be worked out to the satisfaction of the PLAYERS, who are the STARS, then I think this is the best resolution for all concerned.

I suspect, even Alex, would prefer to play in TWO big tournaments in his homeland and not just one. I had personal experience with a similar dispute in the USA about 15 years ago. After putting on a very successful Los Angeles Open in 1992, that paid out $140,000 in prize money, I was told by the powers that be in the MPBA that I could no longer include a Women's Division in my event. Furthermore these same people wanted to become my "partner" in producing this tournament, and share in the proceeds.

When I declined their overtures, my 1993 Los Angeles Open was not sanctioned by the MBPA and many of the top players were forced to boycott the tournament. That was the year I went to the All Around format with three divisions. Once again we paid out in excess of $150,000 in prize money, and many of the players who sat on the sidelines regretted missing it. Some of them even visited the tournament, after their competing event floundered and failed. They were more than a little depressed when they saw me handing $26,000 to Mark Tadd!

Just a little history lesson for those who are interested. I would like to see a resolution that benefits the most players, but I am not optimistic at this point. It looks like a tough year for Philippine pool. Maybe it will all work it's way out eventually after the bloodletting is over. I also remember the big stink when Mark Griffin bought the BCA pool leagues. There remain two competing organizations that emerged from that conflict, but the war seems to have settled into an uneasy truce.