Dust and chip extraction... What do you use ?

Newton

Newton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have been studying the different versions out there and I have now been a little confused after I talked to a shop selling these devices.

The part I'm confused about is the fact that I have been recommended a vacuum device which has a air capacity of 108 Liter/Sek.
This is a link to the unit: http://www.recordpower.co.uk/index.php?section=product&seq=386&cat=55&sef=HIGH FILTER DUST EXTRACTOR

I have however been looking at cyclone type of setups which is this one :
http://www.europac.tw/01_Woodworking_Machinery/Dust_Collector/dust_collector_01.htm
This has a capacity which is (EP701) 2250 M^3/Hour.

Working back the vacuum versions number 108 L/Sek= (108*3600)/1000= 388 M^3/Hour.

So the Europac version moves 2250/388=5.8 times more air but I have been recommended the Record version.... :confused:

The main reason for the recommendation was related to the fact that the Record unit takes dust smaller than 0.5Microns where the Europac was in the 1 Micron range...

The main use would be for my bandsaw and CNC setup but a Late setup is needed as well.

How has you're experience been and what is the best setup? I do not know much about the difference in design between the two units, only that one uses cyclone and the other vacuum :confused:

Any advice would be recommended.

Regards
Kent
 
The more air you move the more particulate you will catch. Most air filters /furnace filters and drinking water filters are 1 to 5 micron. .5 and even 1 is great filtration. It may come down to how loud they are depend on your shop set up. Also check static pressure if you need to move the chips vertically more than 4 feet. The higher the static pressure the better the suction although m^3 and static pressure kind of go hand in hand when it comes to suction. Static pressure is holding power of the vaccume flow is how much it eats so to speak.
 
now on ebay

there is an allegro home central vacuum system on ebay like the one i use. they are around $350.00. i only wish i would have bought it sooner. item # 380052625926. chuck starkey
 
The Record would be my choice. A .5 micron filter is great and the record moves 1300 cubic feet a minute which is a lot for what you are doing.
 
Thank's All.

The Record do look OK and is maybe better to go for in respect of filtering. It is nice to have the possibility to take care of that small stuff as well. Locally I have found a industrial vacuum cleaner which works on the same principal and have even higher capacity - 162L/sek.

However I'm not sure what the difference are in respect of the cyclone and the vacuum units. Is there any one who knows if the principals behind cyclone is demanding a higher capacity to work as good as a vacuum cleaner or is there simply a capacity comparison which counts in our respect?

Was milling in plastic today and the chips makes me mad, so I need to get this working soon so I don't need to clean down the machine every day..

Kent
 
Newton,

You have brought up an often overlooked and misunderstood topic! But it is also a very important one!

The chips are just a pain to deal with, but the fine dust will damage your lungs.

You have to make your own decisions, but I always recommend that anyone looking for dust collection do allot of research. I wasted many thousands of dollars trying things that were all supposed to work, but most didn't. Take a look at this site:

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Bill has done tremendous research and testing. It was not until I used a cylcone of his design that I was able to get the fine dust under control.

As you can imagine, we create a large volume of sawdust. We take out several 30 gallon cans of it everyday! You owe it to yourself to do the research!

I hope this helps!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
The cyclone collectors separate out the large chips at one stage and the fine dust at the next and last stage. If you are going to make a lot of chips, such as you would from a planer, shaper, or gang saw, the cyclone would be a good idea.

The very best thing you could do is have your collector exhaust outside. Then whatever particles pass throught he filter would be gone. However, since you are in a non-tropical climate, you might not want to remove that many cubic feet or cubic liters of heated air from your shop. If you're like most small operations, the one machine will be all you need and the Record looks good. From what you say about your tools, the record is plenty big enough.

I have a one man shop and empty the collection bag about 4 times a year.

I would like a .5 micron filter. Mine is 1 micron but could be better
 
I have made my decision and decided for something which was in between the Record and the drum-setup.

After some time of investigation I have bought this :

http://www.lavorpro.it/ProductEn.aspx?PID=784584

It's a industrial machines used by professionals made in Italy.

It has a larger air capacity than the Record and it is a little more mobile. The machine uses 3 motors in stead of 2 like the Record which yanks the capacity to 162L/s compared to the Records 106L/s. Not to mention that the Record is locally overpriced and I got the Lavor machine for $362 less.

I have added a washable HEPA filter for small particles, but I have not found any info on how many microns this filter takes. Other industrial machines has in the 0.5-0.3 mikron range but just to be sure I would drop the factory a mail and ask. The local guys cant help me in this respect.

EDIT: Well I guess the answer is given :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA

Hopefully receive it tomorrow and it feels like a kid on Christmas :)

The local wood-custom-shop-guys did as mention recommend the Record and he explained that the big drum-setup rely on simple movement of air through the fan drum. If the hoses was not good enough (those corrugated ones are horrible in this respect) the resistant would increase and the effect would be lowered. Proper tubes was needed installed to reduce this resistance as much as possible and tubes in the 100mm range is very expensive over here.

In a vacuum cleaner, the pumps makes a large under-preassure in the container/tank making it more adapted to fine dust. And since I'm in no way going to produce any large amounts of anything, I think this solution would be good. I get rid of that fine particles which for sure could affect us, specially me which is allergic to a lot.

I'll drop a picture of the CNC setup when I have received the machine if any one is interested:)

Kent
 
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Here's how I get rid of the dust around the mill for cut outs and other work.

A similar setup would be designed for tapering.

Kent
 

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Official specification on LAVOR TAURUS IR received

I have received a kind email from the factory down in Italy in respect of the Lavors filter capacity.

I was really pleased to hear that the stock filter (a large washable fabric bag) filters at maximum 0.15 Micron.

Then if you buy the additional HEPA filter (which I have) this is spec'ed to filter at a maximum of 0.03 Micron, which is a factor of 10 better (EDIT:than the HEPA specification.)

The machine do not move the same amount of air as a cyclone setup, but for the applications where we work with health risks type of dust I would highly recommend the machine. It has a large capacity tank which would take me a while to fill with small dust at least :)

For my CNC setup, it removes everything and I actually have to run it with just 2 of the 3 motors running since the air volume would be to big for my dust shoe design (using 3 makes a screaming noise from the dust shoe due to the restricted opening).

Hope it helped.

Kent
 
re: cyclone

RBC said:
Newton,

You have brought up an often overlooked and misunderstood topic! But it is also a very important one!

The chips are just a pain to deal with, but the fine dust will damage your lungs.

You have to make your own decisions, but I always recommend that anyone looking for dust collection do allot of research. I wasted many thousands of dollars trying things that were all supposed to work, but most didn't. Take a look at this site:

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

Bill has done tremendous research and testing. It was not until I used a cylcone of his design that I was able to get the fine dust under control.

As you can imagine, we create a large volume of sawdust. We take out several 30 gallon cans of it everyday! You owe it to yourself to do the research!

I hope this helps!

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...

I've been looking at Bill Pentz's design for a couple of months. Does anybody else use this? I figure my long term health is worth spending less than $2000 on, considering what a battery of tests and treatment could cost long-term.
Everyone preaches to spend the money on quality tooling. Should dust collection be any different?
I was about to pull the trigger on a $500 system until I read about how all the home dust-collection systems are based on an old commercial design where the systems were meant to be outside. When used inside, they're more like "dust pumps" than dust collectors.
It isn't about collecting the dust chips- they won't get into our lungs. It is about catching the fine particles that cause long-term damage.
One interesting "cheap" test was to turn off all the lights in your shop and use a flashlight to see just how much fine dust is actually circulating in there!
Does anyone else use dust collection based on Bill Pentz's design? I'm interested in other opinions!
Thanks for your time.
~Beau
 
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