Should shortstops be banned from local bar box tourneys?

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Poolfiend

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Our local shortstop has been banned from playing in all of our local bar box tourneys because the guys who run the tourneys are afraid that if he shows up everyone else will stop playing. I call BS.

Yes, he is better than everyone else in the tourney, but it is an eightball race to two and the guys that complain never win when he's not there anyway. I don't understand. I would think that for five or ten bucks you would want to play against the best players you possibly could in order to learn something new and elevate your game.

I know this has been discussed before, but it happened again this week and it is frustrating. Pool in Utah is a total joke.

Mild rant ended. All thoughts and opinions appreciated.
 
Poolfiend said:
Our local shortstop has been banned from playing in all of our local bar box tourneys because the guys who run the tourneys are afraid that if he shows up everyone else will stop playing. I call BS.

Yes, he is better than everyone else in the tourney, but it is an eightball race to two and the guys that complain never win when he's not there anyway. I don't understand. I would think that for five or ten bucks you would want to play against the best players you possibly could in order to learn something new and elevate your game.

I know this has been discussed before, but it happened again this week and it is frustrating. Pool in Utah is a total joke.

Mild rant ended. All thoughts and opinions appreciated.
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I dont agree with this at all. It certainly is not fair to the cream of the crop in any area, especially if its just a weekly tournament.
Where are they going to play then????
Its sad to get punished for putting in the hard work to be one of the best local area players.
I know I would not be where I am today without the shortstops.
These guys are the players who push us to improve.
 
It is ridiculously short. Anyone can win. It is really the only option for the bar though.

Start time is close to 9pm - any earlier and no one shows up.
Usually get about 20 players and even with that short of a race the tourney usually doesn't get over until after midnight. Any longer of a race and they risk not being able to finish before the bar closes. The two tourneys I attend use 3 or 4 tables.
 
When I played in Bar tournaments I didn't really care who showed up, but we always had the few people who didn't want the really good players to play.

Living in Indy that was pretty hard. The only time I can think of things coming to a head was when Mark Jarvis started showing up to most of the bar tourneys (but he was winning a lot of them) Of course they were short races like you mentioned, but loser breaks bar box 8 ball you should feel comfortable playing really anyone I would think.

If you have enough people on your side an easy way to make a point to the complainers is to show up to the tourney but not sign up and then let the few complainers know that is why 10 of you aren't playing. Most bar tournaments add $ per person signed up so you 10 x your probably $5 or $10 entry plus the bar matching that amount will be a pretty large hit to the pot and may just drive the complainers to either be quiet or stop coming. Maybe the complainers will say good more for us, I don't know.
 
If it is an OPEN tournament..yes they should be allowed to play.
If it is a CLOSED/Invitational/Members only or just a "B" level players and below.. no question.... NOT allowed.
 
Bar Tourneys

It has been many years since I have played in a bar tourney. But it seems to me they were just 1 game, win or lose. Usually double elimination but still just 1 game matches. The better players would still win most of the time. If a great player was to win a few in a row, he might be asked to not play for a month or so. This would allow the others to enjoy the win once in a while.
But, the bars were mostly in it to sell beer and mixed drinks. If somebody was to win and never buy a drink........they might ask em to play elsewhere. These were supposed to be fun tourneys and not much money anyway. $5 entry and maybe $35 or $40 if u win.
The really good players should go to pool halls where there is money added and longer races...........and more competition. JMHO
 
The fact of the matter is that a dominating player or players in a bar tournament will cause many people to stop playing in it.

I don't like to see anybody banned because of their skill, but sometimes it just makes good business sense for the bar owner to do it. Less people in the tournament means less drinks being sold etc. Dwindling fields also mean that still other players will stop going because the fields are small. It can potentially lead to not having enough people to even have the tournament anymore.

A compromise used in many places is that a player that wins a tournament has to sit out for one, two or whatever amount of weeks. A problem with this compromise though is that a person can work around it. The most common would be for the dominant player to just take second every week, or for two or more dominant players to always end up in the finals and rotate who is going to take the win for that week, and who is going to get to take second (and be able to play the following week).
 
All valid points. Thanks for the input. I will make the suggestion that he be allowed to play only every other week, win or lose, and see how that goes over.

I also agree that the better players should be in the pool halls. Unfortunately there is only one real pool hall is SLC and his action is killed there. He could go there and practice, but if he wants any kind of competition he has to give up the world. Pretty small pool community here - sucks that one guy has been singled out as too good and they won't let him play. Ah well, such is life.
 
secretsquirrel said:
I dont agree with this at all. It certainly is not fair to the cream of the crop in any area, especially if its just a weekly tournament.
Where are they going to play then????
Its sad to get punished for putting in the hard work to be one of the best local area players.
I know I would not be where I am today without the shortstops.
These guys are the players who push us to improve.
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I agree 100%. Problem is that the bar players around here have no interest in learning and getting better - they just want a better chance to win a few bucks. Sad really.
 
It depends how the shortstop is handling it. If he's just showing up for the tourney, not social, not spending money, not really doing anything for anyone but himself and is just an overall buzzkill, then like the ease-e man says, let the bar make the call.

If the shortstop was well liked in general, folks would like to play him and probably root for him a little. Being good "in" pool is more important than being good "at" pool. :D
 
I play a handicapped tournament on Monday nights. We have players rated from AAA to C. We have the usual AAA players show up to try to win every week but with this handicap system it makes it real hard for them. They have to shoot lights out to win the tournament.

With this handicap system C's have a real chance to beat an AAA player. I think the race is 6-2. I'm an A player so I have to spot C's two games and B's 1 game. AAA's give me two games 5-3 and AA's give me 1 game.
It's a $5 tournament and we usually get between 20 and 32 players each week. I've played several state champs in this tournament and I can hold my own against them. With the spot I get it really makes it even in my mind as most of my matches with higher rated players go hill-hill.
 
Poolfiend said:
I will make the suggestion that he be allowed to play only every other week, win or lose, and see how that goes over.

sucks that one guy has been singled out as too good and they won't let him play. Ah well, such is life.
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Looks to me like you are singling him out yourself.

I still work on improving myself, maybe you will not let me play if I show up down your way.

I was in GA a while back for work played in a short race tourney on Wed nights, did not cash, recap - lost my first match, played a couple of good matches played bad a couple a time lose out round before the money, Come back a few weeks later and they said i was barred just a little too strong they said.

So go ahead and limit the guy, maybe he will take up golf, tennis or basketball........
 
what???

elvicash said:
Looks to me like you are singling him out yourself.

I still work on improving myself, maybe you will not let me play if I show up down your way.

I was in GA a while back for work played in a short race tourney on Wed nights, did not cash, recap - lost my first match, played a couple of good matches played bad a couple a time lose out round before the money, Come back a few weeks later and they said i was barred just a little too strong they said.

So go ahead and limit the guy, maybe he will take up golf, tennis or basketball........
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WOW, where did you play?? i have been running handcap for 10 yr i just dont let pro,roadies play but my workes o.k. STICK:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Banned from the tournaments? Hell, I think they should be 86'd from the venues!!! :grin-devilish:
 
stick8 said:
WOW, where did you play?? i have been running handcap for 10 yr i just dont let pro,roadies play but my workes o.k. STICK:confused: :confused: :confused:
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It's the bar's tournament, it should be up to them. I didn't like it much when two min. before sign up is over in walks CM Lee and 3 or 4 other pros for a $25 entry tournament. Johnnyt
 
wait wait wait wait, this is pool! you know that right. it's not golf or tennis. in pool you can't make money if you actually play good, hasn't anybody taught you that yet??
 
What are ya gonna do? Sounds nittified to me....not for the bar, but the other players. I mean, c'mon.... bar box 8-ball races to 2???? You're not gonna play because one guy plays well????????????????

I don't care if the top 50 players in the world are in that tournament....anyone can beat anyone in a race to 2 on a bar box. You gotta be scared to death to not play in a format like that because ONE guy plays well. Just my opinion...

If the bar is filled with scared to death individuals, I see the bar's point... better to ban one guy unjustly than to lose the weekly tournament.
 
I agree that the bar has to figure it out. Tournaments are supposed to ultimately be good for business so they have to look at it from that perspective.

As a possible compromise, maybe they can let him play opposite-handed...
 
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