What does it take to make a room profitable?

the only way you can really make any money is if you own the building, if you can't buy the building and your paying rent then you are pissing your money away. At least if your making enough to pay the rent its yours and not someone elses. 15 years down the road you can sell the building etc. 15 years down the road the other way you will just be crying about how you wished you bought a building. Then it doesn't feel so bad if you have to stay there. Its a big commitment and not one too many people have made. If you want to sell booze your openig yourself up to lawsuits etc. I personally think its better to cater to the young on the weekends and have solid pool leagues during the week for players. If guys want action you should have a private room with maybe 2 tables off to the side.

my 2 cents or after the stock market today my 1 cent

OTLB said:

the only way you can really make any money is if you own the building, if you can't buy the building and your paying rent then you are pissing your money away. At least if your making enough to pay the rent its yours and not someone elses. 15 years down the road you can sell the building etc. 15 years down the road the other way you will just be crying about how you wished you bought a building. Then it doesn't feel so bad if you have to stay there. Its a big commitment and not one too many people have made. If you want to sell booze your openig yourself up to lawsuits etc. I personally think its better to cater to the young on the weekends and have solid pool leagues during the week for players. If guys want action you should have a private room with maybe 2 tables off to the side.

my 2 cents or after the stock market today my 1 cent

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i agree if you dont own the building you will close when your rent gets to high.....
i have seen this happen countless times
scott

with very few exceptions the only to make it pay is owning the building, when you sell it down the line then the pool room will really pay off. Renting a space for a room is just buying a low paying job at best now days. Many years ago before triple net leases and over all better value rents it was possible to rent and build a good biz but its awalys been better to buy. If you cant buy the building-dont open a room. There are exceptions but its generally safe to follow the "buy the building" biz model. This will keep alot of people from opening up but that just protects them.

A paid off building. A clientel of rich alcoholics and an overpriced bar. And only pool players that hate sitting down. I think a 5-6% profit margin could be expected in this ideal situation

If you don't own the building, perhaps you
could arrange the monthly rent to be a percentage
of the sales generated, e.g., 30-35%.

Also, having the same type of tournament or event
will not hold the interest of some for long.
It would be a good idea to hold various types
of events to entice the players to play more
and be at the pool hall more often.

Lest I forget, good food and drinks is always
a must for a a pool room's success. And if
possible, there should be a designated smoking area.

AnitoKid

cueandcushion said:

A paid off building. A clientel of rich alcoholics and an overpriced bar. And only pool players that hate sitting down. I think a 5-6% profit margin could be expected in this ideal situation

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for 5-6% I would rather buy rental houses and have the free time, no shop/biz is worth owning with that slim of a margin-one bump in the road and poof!! your unemployeed, It happened to me,

to answere the question what would it take to make a poolroom profitable? a mircle

fd_colorado said:

I know there are many more variables than what I have here, but this would be a start.
________________

Baseline assumptions --

Sell beer, wine and food.
Minimal counter work for owner.

If your market area has a population of 50,000 people...

How many tables would you ideally have?
What would you pay for rent?
What would you charge per hour?



What is the smallest population that can support a regular room?

________________

Does anyone have any ideas about having a gentlemen's club that is membership based?


Thanks

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I see that you posted this in the Room Owners forum so you know where it is, have you read all the posts about this subject, because I think this question is like beating a :deadhorse: uttahere:

Like any business the customers have feel like they are getting a good deal. Six clean cut well behaved kids come in, tell them you will only charge for four on the table. Don't look at this as losing money. Look at it as good will that will keep these kids coming back. And they will tell their friends.
The adults spend the money. Keep the music volume down to a managable level. My friends and I ( all over 50) will walk out and go somewhere else when the music gets loud. We not only buy table time, but we buy beer.
I would agree with the other comments. Buy the building if there is anyway you can afford it.

Customers who spend money on Table time, Cues, Accessories, Cue Repairs, Food, and Drinks.

I notice that having a lot of APA/BCA/TAP league teams is very helpful,

After 16 years of pool room ownership in a dry county I have developed a few opinions and made a few observations:

1. The population required for profitability has risen dramatically in the last 40 years. In the 70's in a small town (pop. 1800) in KY we had 2 pool rooms one with 6 tables and one with 10. Both men owned brick homes in a time when few were brick. They both wore an apron all day long flipping burgers. Those rooms no loger exist. You rarely see a room in towns of this size any longer. There is a room there now but I suspect thier bread and butter is not off of table time, this is and always has been a dry county.

2. My room in Arkansas is in a town of 23,000 (dry county) we have 20 tables. From the early nineties to 2006 we made a comfortable living and kept 3 people on full time plus a couple of parttimers. Even with making drastic payroll cuts ($85,000 down to $30,000), adding table work and sales, pricing adjustments etc over the last few years business has slid to the point where we will show our first loser in 16 years.

3. We opened in 1993, what has changed?
Very few home computers existed
Legalized gambling was only in Atlantic City, Reno, and Vegas.
Home gaming has greatly improved.
Our worst downturn came on the heels of Smoking Ban in 2006
Most of my serious players have turned to poker

4. In summary it is my opinion that a no alcohol room needs to be in a town of at leas 40,000 to get by. I own my building (me and the bank), the downside there is you cannot just close the doors if business gets too slow, the payment and insurance must be maintained, I estimate that I would have to lose greater than $1500 per month to make closing the doors feasible. With unpredictable realestate sales and values and an uncertain future for the pool industry I would think long and hard before buying property for a pool room.

mark smith said:

After 16 years of pool room ownership in a dry county I have developed a few opinions and made a few observations:

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I did not realize anywher was still DRY as you say, what State, What County?:embarrassed2:

I own my own building (thank goodness) and in a town of 22,000 it is still no cake walk. Legalized gambling in nearby casinos, poker games every night, and now 3 of the local bars are having "free pool nights". This all hurts business, but I think what has slowed me down more than anything is when people started having to put every spare dime they had into their gas tanks. This has gotten better recently, but it is foolish to believe that prices will stay down in the long run after we have demonstrated that we will pay $4/gallon.

I guess what I am saying is that if you are not inheriting a building and equipment that is all paid off you probably won't be profitable. Sorry.

Nothing short than the grace of God...and a miracle.

CocoboloCowboy said:

I did not realize anywher was still DRY as you say, what State, What County?:embarrassed2:

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For one, Moore County in Tennessee, the county in which Jack Daniels is produced, is dry. See this link for others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_county

I used to own a cabin on KY lake down in Paris TN. I know several counties in both KY and TN have been dry over the years. My grandpa even made moonshine when I was a kid. Kinda funny when I look back at it. I think he just made it because he was cheap tho. Still could get it in MO and bring it over..lol.
When I was young I used it to clean the boat off because I thought it was turpentine or something. I got yelled at.

Still dry counties here and there. Interesting part of our countries past I think.

ragbug74 said:

For one, Moore County in Tennessee, the county in which Jack Daniels is produced, is dry. See this link for others: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_county

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I heard where Jack is Made, you can not DRINK IT.:angry:

I have been reading all your comments on this subject. I had to close my room down not to long ago. Q-Sharks Billiards in MN. The main reason, rent! It was were any profit I had left. I know there are pros & cons to owning your own building or leasing. Now a days with the economy & smoking bans you really have to have that nich. The thing that keeps them coming back. You will not make a ton of money doing this, but I think the one thing no one has hit on yet is why we really do it.
Its a life style. Its not just owning a business, you really have to know how to relate to your customers. I am a pool player & my empoyees were as well. I believe now a days, a full bar or at least beer as well as a patio for the smokers and the slow summer months is very important. Demagraphics is huge! I don't think it real matters if its 20k or 70k population, if you don't have league players and pool players in your area. If you are located in a blue colar community this seems to help. Parking is important as well.
Well, I could go on..........

PS, its the best job you will ever have!

LIVE WELL, PLAY WELL