Master Cue Maker Status

So what makes a master

1. Playability

2. Design (find his design and walking his own way )

3. processing (precision)

4. passion and philosophy of the Cuemaker


I have two categories ..... fancy and plane Cues.




Berny

Forget

I forget an important thing

5. Experience and evolution

Berny

Just my opinion

A master cuemaker needs consistency of playability. They may vary to suite the player's wishes, but a signature hit and sound must be common to their cues. Consistent method of construction and materials.

A cuemaker needs to have a recognizable style. You can see a Szam or Schick from across the room and know what it is. Ususally if I am wrong, it is because a newer builder has copied their style.

Excellence of execution. Finish and inlays need to be really good.

Fatboy: I enjoyed your post. I admire that you were willing to name a few without being disrespectful to any. To me, Joel Hercek is among the legendary builders. Haley and Searing are producing stuff that will make them unforgettable to anyone who knows cues and sees their work. I think time will recognize their talents as legendary too.

What they said!

I think playability and consistency first and foremost. Moreover, playability of "all" their cues...I think even show cues and high end cues should be players first and art second, playability should never be sacrificed...and I could rattle off a list of a number people put at the top that do just that!

cuemasterpieces said:

1. Playability


Berny

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IMHO Playability, is everything.

Unlike other professions, with standardized criteria, skills and tests to determine "master" designation, I think master cue builder status will always be subjective. And, although quite a few names will be on most everyone's list, any one list is going to be colored by the list-maker's biases and experiences.

The playability, fit and finish and other criteria listed above will be used by most everyone in bestowing their opinion of "master" status.

Scott

CocoboloCowboy said:

IMHO Playability, is everything.

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Playability is also subjective, so it can only be everything to the person buying the cue.... that is the problem with quantifying playability, ala, hit...

JV

Master cuemaker status....

Interesting concept... the problem is the most important feature of any cue is strictly personal preference.. the hit or playability. You could argue that a cuemaker that makes all the cues play the same, or close to it, was tops. But what if you don't like that particular hit, is he still a master to you?

So after that.. what do you have? Design in construction, design in aesthetics? IMHO when I see a cue, and I see lots of them, and the cue is 5-8 years old and is still solid, and as straight as the day it the left the shop, that is important. Integrity, that is important. Does he follow his order book or does he do favors? In other words does his business model count towards his master cuemakers certificate, or are we just talking making cues?

My criteria would include longevity, to a degree, then construction, and design. Also for me market status is important, is he a blue chipper. Then I think why is he a blue chipper. For me, my preference is 4 point, short splice construction with a traditional look, so that will hold more importance to me than the cnc floating cookie cutter spear type cues.

I expect everyones opinion to be quite different in a debate such as this. Our criteria cannot all be the same, close, but not the same.

JV

Fatboy said:

I have said before that the perfect cue dosent exist, but its sure fun trying to find it. There are so many great cue makers nowdays that it is a bigger quest than ever before. I look at what Steve has put together, Will, Ken, Marcus and others and there are so many great cues, who knows whats best anymore??? I can make a case for 5 different "ledgends" and as many "master" cue makers.

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THANKS FOR INCLUDING ME IN THAT LIST.....

MASTER CUEMAKER?????

THAT'S A TOUGH ONE....

I GUESS I'D HAVE TO AGREE WITH ALMOST ALL THE POINTS MADE. PLUS TRADITION, I LOVE CUES MADE THE OLD SCHOOL WAY. FOR SOME REASON, THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN IMPORTANT TO ME.

Tough to reply as a cuemaker, but I think my views are insight that others, non-cuemakers may not see without bringing it to light.

First of all, I do not think of myself as a master. There are aspects I have mastered, but I have not mastered it all. I have lots of learning & lots of experience ahead of me. And so long as i'm learning & things I learn are being incorporated into my cues, i'll never consider myself master.

A master to me is one who does the task perfectly, consistently. Playability is subjective, but only to the non-master players. Great players usually agree on good cues & bad cues. They have differing opinions of tips & hit feel, but all know good from bad & there's no controversy over that. However, I find the most opinionated & biased players to be lower tier players with little experience in custom cues except for the one or two they have used. I think in order for one to qualify as judge for master cuemakers, he must be at minimum a solid "A" player who can string racks, control spin, & correctly think through a game. He must have vast experience with all types of cues. He cannot judge a single cue, but must have numerous experiences with numerous cues from one builder, and equal experience with all others in order to make a fair comparison. So in essence, the master builder can only be deemed such by a true master cue nut & player. Everything else is just biased opinionated guesses.

Design shouldn't matter so long as it's his own & consistently executed to a high degree of accurate craftsmanship. Basically, this means clean & even points with minimal glue lines, inlays with minimal glue gaps, and something original that sets him apart from the crowd. He can masterfully recreate another guy's design, but it's not by any means making him a master, just a good copycat. I often see superb inlay work into ebony that has very sharp edges, but upon close inspection under good light, there's huge glue gaps. To me, that's not masterful, only masterful masking. Sharp edged inlays in maple with no visible glue gaps requires master craftsmanship. Personally, I won't even begin to inlay until I master everything else first, and will not begin putting out inlayed cues until I master the art of inlay. That'll be a long time because it's friggin tough, I tried. It can be done, but it requires very skilled hands far past the point CNC can go.

Playability must be superb & trustful. All cues should be uniformly great players. I know enough to understand that any cue can play great if it's constructed well, balanced well, weighted well, and everything is high grade materials. A great cue is a great cue no matter who built it. Shortcuts in the time & financial department mean faulty construction with sub-par materials, resulting in a normal everyday cue that does not stand out from it's peers. It costs money to build a great cue, and takes time. It's an investment. You get out what you put in. You can't cheap your way into a great cue, and great cues don't come cheap to players & cue buyers. Any cuemaker can build you a nice cue for a nice price. Only a few can build you a great cue & it won't be cheap. However, I have seen exceptions to this rule. I think geography plays a role here, with a guy in Arkansas who has low cost of living can build a great cue & let it go for a lower cost than a guy in SoCal who builds the same cue but has tremendously greater living expenses.

I don't think protocall has anything to do with a guy being a master builder. After all, it's about the quality of cue being built that determines a master builder. Determining the best business man is another topic altogether. McDermott would be the master in this department. They please everybody & do it fast with no bias or favortism. So "master cuemaker status" should be judged by the cue, not the way he conducts the business. It's apples & oranges.

Last but no less important should be cue life. The cue should last forever if not abused. We see 200 year old cues emerging from attics that are nearly mint, so there's no excuse for a modern built cue to break down. Granted, heavily played but not abused cues will show much more wear, but we all know the difference between play & abuse.

So I guess once a builder aquires a unique personality that is reflected in every or most cues built, he mastered design. Once he masters playability, consistency, longevity of life, & construction execution, then he is a master builder. The number of cues is also a factor. There must be enough cues out there from each builder to make a well informed assessment. It wouldn't be tough to make a standardized set of requirements, but would require a board to be established. Somebody would have to govern the board, and it would need to be politically non-corrupt. Until then, things will go as they are & it'll be my opinion vs. your opinion.

Drawman623 said:

A master cuemaker needs consistency of playability. They may vary to suite the player's wishes, but a signature hit and sound must be common to their cues. Consistent method of construction and materials.

A cuemaker needs to have a recognizable style. You can see a Szam or Schick from across the room and know what it is. Ususally if I am wrong, it is because a newer builder has copied their style.

Excellence of execution. Finish and inlays need to be really good.

Fatboy: I enjoyed your post. I admire that you were willing to name a few without being disrespectful to any. To me, Joel Hercek is among the legendary builders. Haley and Searing are producing stuff that will make them unforgettable to anyone who knows cues and sees their work. I think time will recognize their talents as legendary too.

Click to expand...

What Drawman says! The cue should be made as much by hand as possible & not bolted together. It must have a distinct style.

I agree with Eric that all cues play slightly differently; however, a good stick makers cues are more consistent in playability, IMO.

What makes a master cuemaker is recognition by your peers as a master of your craft.

When you can turn out consistently great quality and have mastered all aspects of the craft then you are a master.

In case making Chas Clements is a master case maker because he has deinfitely mastered every style and technique that exists to make a container out of leather and he executes each piece to perfection. Our shop is not even at apprentice status compared to him. That is my example of what I consider a master.

A master craftsman never confers that title upon themselves. It is earned through the recognition of one's peers and contemporaries. In guilds it is earned through the demonstration of the mastery of all skills in the craft.

I think I could sum up my idea pretty easy. A master builder is one who reaches peak ability in known technique, then has the skill & knowledge & creativity to expand the craft.

Master Cuemaker....

1) Proficiency of execution. Fit and finish through out the cue.
2) Innovation of cuemaking design,style,tooling, fixtures etc.
3) Reputation is what you get from the above.

Playability....what does that mean?

I have played with inexpensive cues that were not of great construction to say the least and hit great and I have played with some expensive cues that did not play as good...as to my feel and response.

The type of woods,joint,shaft wood,ferrules,shaft and butt tapers,balance point, execution etc. have a huge affect on the hit and feel of a cue even by the same cuemaker.

So I would say playability is solely an individual experience....but that being said when large numbers say a cue hits and/or plays good that's ...great.

There are only maybe 5 cuemaker's alive today I would put in the Master Class category.

When I look at a cue I look through a loop to see how well the cuemaker did his job. Over the years I have seen some pretty poor workmanship by well known cuemakers that are alive today and some would say they are "Master or Great"...many give their opinion about who is good without any real investigation and without empirical examination. I base my opinion purely through my experience in examining cues and playing with them for over 25 years.

Just because something topically appears good....doesn't mean it is.

My pick for living Master Cuemaker's:

Ernie Guiterrez
Dennis Searing
Barry Szamboti
John Showman
Bob Manzino
Joel Hercek
Tony Scianella
Pete Tascerella


I guess that makes 8. Old School and Contemporary cuemakers.

When I think of a "Master" of any craft, the first criteria for me is longevity. You never stop learning, and you have to pay your dues to make the designation we are discussing. A person who has been doing his thing for at least 25 years minimum would be the first hurdle. After that, the obvious excellence in the other areas mentioned would come into play.

No one on this planet can touch Mr Tony's work at Black Boar

No one even close. Want one? Come with 12K and wait! That is where Black Boars Cues start.
There are masters and there is the man they wounder what universe he came from!
He is the masters master!
Nick

Well these arent mine...

HIRUN526 said:

Master Cuemaker....

1) Proficiency of execution. Fit and finish through out the cue.
2) Innovation of cuemaking design,style,tooling, appliances etc.
3) Reputation is what you get from the above.

Playability....what does that mean?

I have played with inexpensive cues that were not of great construction to say the least and hit great and I have played with some expensive cues that did not play as good...as to my feel and response.

The type of woods,joint,shaft wood,ferrules,shaft and butt tapers,balance point, execution etc. have a huge affect on the hit and feel of a cue even by the same cuemaker.

So I would say playability is solely an individual experience....but that being said when large numbers say a cue hits and/or plays good that's ...great.

There are only maybe 5 cuemaker's alive today I would put in the Master Class category.

When I look at a cue I look through a loop to see how well the cuemaker did his job. Over the years I have seen some pretty poor workmanship by well known cuemakers that are alive today and some would say they are "Master or Great"...many give their opinion about who is good without any real investigation and without empirical examination. I base my opinion purely through my experience in examining cues and playing with them for over 25 years.

Just because something topically appears good....doesn't mean it is.

My pick for living Master Cuemaker's:

Ernie Guiterrez
Dennis Searing
Barry Szamboti
John Showman
Bob Manzino
Joel Hercek
Tony Scianella
Pete Tascerella


I guess that makes 8. Old School and Contemporary cuemakers.

Click to expand...

What does a Master cue maker have to be to a Master?

My opinion is different than the above.

Tate had a pic of who I would consider the living masters.

Gina
Tad
Schick
Stroud
Black
Kersenbrock

To me there are better cuemakers out there, but these gentlemen are the cream IMO, BECAUSE the led the way.....

Most influencial of all time.

Rambow
Balabushka
Szamboti
Gina
Kersenbrock

I cant see how anyone can disagree but feel free.

Ken

Ken_4fun said:

What does a Master cue maker have to be to a Master?

My opinion is different than the above.

Tate had a pic of who I would consider the living masters.

Gina
Tad
Schick
Stroud
Black
Kersenbrock

To me there are better cuemakers out there, but these gentlemen are the cream IMO, BECAUSE the led the way.....

Most influencial of all time.

Rambow
Balabushka
Szamboti
Gina
Kersenbrock

I cant see how anyone can disagree but feel free.

Ken

Click to expand...

Put Burton Spain in there and I totally agree.