Next Up: Larry Nevel's Break Analysis

mosconiac

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
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Following up my analysis of Charlie Bryant's break technique (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=125466), which followed Johnny Archer's (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=118515) and SVB's (http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=118081&page=2), the next logical subject would be my fellow Midwesterner...Larry Nevel.

Please watch the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0quThyaBeg

By request, I have taken a look at Larry Nevel's break technique. Now, I was long aware of Larry's powerful break, but I couldn't find a decent video to do an in-depth analysis. I settled for a video I found on YouTube. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMmq2UXrNf0

Since I feel Larry is a premier "breaker", I felt it was appropriate to pass along any information I found. This video is the result of my humble analysis.

I have found that Larry shares the same fundamentals as all top breakers....the same low head & forward grip position at set, the same elevated cue on the backswing, the same body/hip movement just prior to releasing the cue forward, the same elbow/shoulder (downward) drive to level out the cue at impact...


LarryNevelBreakPosition7--FollowThr.jpg
 
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As with other major breakers, it appears to me that the crucial feature in Larry's powerful break is the involvement of his upper arm. The elbow drop and standing up are both integral to getting a full-arm swing.

Much is made of the "lunge" of these power breakers, and I'm sure that contributes significantly, but I believe the straightening of the arm for the full-arm swing is the most important element in getting more power - and, of course, the main difficulty in hitting the CB accurately.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
...but I believe the straightening of the arm for the full-arm swing is the most important element in getting more power...
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I think the speed of the action may be fooling you a little bit. The bulk of the power development occurs in such a small fraction of a second, that what appears to be a straight arm is not.

The elbow angle goes from roughly 75* at set, to 90* in the backswing, to as much as 135* at release (which looks pretty straight), to 90* again at impact.

The elbow/shoulder drops (pulling the elbow angle open since the cue has not moved yet), the wrist cocks (again, the cue has not moved yet), and the breaker then pulls the cue along whipping it forward with the wrist & by snapping the elbow to 90* again.

Anyway, maybe you didn't mean literally "straight" and you meant "straightening". I've tried a "straight" arm break BTW and my elbow hurts BAD after a few breaks.
 
What about cue weight ??? In Reno this last month Charlie Bryant said his break cue is 25 oz's.....Archer said his is 18 oz...?????
 
mosconiac said:
I think the speed of the action may be fooling you a little bit.
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Have you forgotten that you provided a stop action slow motion video? :)

The bulk of the power development occurs in such a small fraction of a second, that what appears to be a straight arm is not.

The elbow angle goes from roughly 75* at set, to 90* in the backswing, to as much as 135* at release (which looks pretty straight), to 90* again at impact.

The elbow/shoulder drops (pulling the elbow angle open since the cue has not moved yet), the wrist cocks (again, the cue has not moved yet), and the breaker then pulls the cue along whipping it forward with the wrist & by snapping the elbow to 90* again.

Anyway, maybe you didn't mean literally "straight" and you meant "straightening". I've tried a "straight" arm break BTW and my elbow hurts BAD after a few breaks.
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No, I didn't mean "straight" - I doubt that's physically possible for most players. In fact I think the arm should be folding again before hitting the CB (to get the whipping action provided by the upper arm movement).

Getting the upper arm into the action does at least two essential things for power: it makes use of the pectoral muscle, which is a huge increase in muscle power, and it adds leverage to the forearm's movement, which is a huge increase in speed (like the leveraged speed of the business half of a nunchuck).

pj
chgo
 
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NINEBALLART said:
What about cue weight ??? In Reno this last month Charlie Bryant said his break cue is 25 oz's.....Archer said his is 18 oz...?????
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It's what you're comfortable with.

You can accelerate a lighter cue more quickly, and the slower, heavier cue carries more momentum at a given speed.

We have the same discussion in shooting all the time. We have to make a certain "power factor" to keep things legal and even. You can run a light bullet fast, or a heavy bullet slow and get identical results as far as momentum, but very different subjective "feel".

I would guess, "fast twitch" breakers would be better served with something on the lighter end of the scale, and slower / stronger breakers, might be better with the heavy 22+ ounce trunks.

But, who knows?

I've tried both and I end up back in the middle around 20.
 
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Again, another excellent analysis by Mosconiac!!! For anyone who wants to break like a "monster" please pay attention. I've taken some hints and it has helped me tremendously.

Larry is a "freak of nature". He is fast and strong. I've witnessed his speed and strength many times over the last 20+ years. I remember Dr. Cue (Tom Rossman) asking LN to videotape his stroke so he could learn how he hits the ball the way he does. There may not be a living human who can duplicate the LN stroke.

I want to thank Mosconiac for the research and superb analysis efforts. While we may not be able to duplicate these top players that have been and will be analyzed; we can definitely learn the qualites that do work to help better our games.

Keep up the good work!
 
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Duane Tuula said:
While we may not be able to duplicate these top players that have been and will be analyzed; we can definitely learn the qualites that do work to help better our games.
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AMEN! :thumbup:
 
The best break cue weight argument has been done many times, but basically I think most people feel its better to swing a lighter cue faster than using a real heavy cue that you can't swing fast.

Hillbilly is a huge guy but I doubt 25 oz is the optimum weight for even guys as strong as him.

Robert Byrne has an section in one of his books (advanced) that even gives the equation for it. I think most people settle for 19-21 oz.
 
Duane Tuula said:
Again, another excellent analysis by Mosconiac!!! ...


Keep up the good work!
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What? No kudos for the camera man? Sheesh! :wink:

Fred <~~~ thinks Mosoniac did yet another awesome job!!!
 
Were you the originator of that clip, Fred? If so, thanks because that's the only one I could find!

I don't know why I didn't take one myself when I saw Larry in November at the IPT ProAm.
 
mosconiac said:
Were you the originator of that clip, Fred? If so, thanks because that's the only one I could find!
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I can't remember if this was last year or the year before at the Derby City Classic in the AZBilliards Room.

My camera doesn't do too well indoors. But, it's better than a cell phone video!

Fred
 
Cornerman said:
What? No kudos for the camera man? Sheesh! :wink:

Fred <~~~ thinks Mosoniac did yet another awesome job!!!
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[size=+5]KUDOS[/size]

74134591.v24ZxUnQ.smileycamera.gif
 
Larry's break cue is between 19-19.5oz. He uses the same weight break cue and playing cue and that is what he recommends for others to do as well.

Just a little fun side note about Larry's break: We were in Vegas in 2007 and he got on the gun and didn't move any part of his body except his arm and hit somewhere in the range of 24 mph (I can't remember the exact number) when he was showing off for the crowd.
 
It's hard to believe this could even get above 20 mph let alone 30. Hehe.

Larry.jpg


I don't know what's worse, the tie or sweater vest. LOL.
 
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