8-Ball shot speed...on first ball

chefjeff

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
I play 8-Ball mostly. I've played a lot of 9-Ball in the past but not much anymore. So, I understand how hard a "9-Ball speed" shot is and that usually an "8-Ball" speed shot is softer than the "9-Ball" speed shot.

I usually hit "9-Ball" speed when I shoot the 8-ball as I don't want to leave a hanger for my opponent in the (rare :) ) times that I miss the 8. That is, I hit it a little harder than the other shots. (I'm speaking generally here, and know that specific shots require variations from this rule of thumb.)

Anyway, I also had the thought recently that the FIRST ball hit in 8-Ball is better shot with "9-Ball" speed, too. This thought hit me when I was choosing my suit one time and failed to hit the first ball hard enough to reach the pocket and so I gave my opponent ball-in-hand and he ran out. der!

So, my thought now is to hit the first ball in 8-Ball (if table is still open) at about "9-Ball" speed so if I do miss it (people really miss? :) ) my opponent wouldn't have an easy hanger to help his run.

I'd appreciate any comments on this subject.

Jeff Livingston
 
Why wouldn't you just play the speed necessary to get position on your next ball? I know that if I have so little confidence in my shooting that I play strategy for a miss I've probably already lost the rack.
 
This is the first time I hear about different games having different speeds. As long as you shoot the speed you need to make the ball and get shape for the rest, it doesn't matter. And why just the first ball?
 
Welamu said:
Why wouldn't you just play the speed necessary to get position on your next ball? I know that if I have so little confidence in my shooting that I play strategy for a miss I've probably already lost the rack.
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I do, but as my example showed, I think I'm better off erring on the side of hitting it a little too hard vs. missing because of trying for too exact of shape, if that makes sense.

Also, if the speed doesn't matter for shape (e.g. a stop shot), then why not hit a little harder just in case?

Also, the first shot sometimes comes after sitting in the chair a while and my stroke might be a little out of whack, so to speak, so hitting it a little harder than I would in the middle of a deadstroke runout seems to make sense to me.

Sense?

Jeff LIvingston
 
Koopa said:
This is the first time I hear about different games having different speeds. As long as you shoot the speed you need to make the ball and get shape for the rest, it doesn't matter. And why just the first ball?
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Hitting softly in 8-Ball is smart cuz if you miss,you block a pocket; in 9-Ball, if you miss you want the Object Ball to not be a hanger for your opponent so the average speed is a little harder---usually.

Just the first ball (if the table is open) for the same reason: don't wanna leave a hanger for my opponent as the table is still open and he can choose the ball I just missed if I left an easy starter for him.

Jeff Livingston
 
I have to admit, I've never really thought about this for the first ball.

As a counter-point for the 8-ball, if you hit it harder due to the chance of a miss, you're also opening up the possibility that you could slop it in another pocket.

Also if you hit it softer, but miss, you could hang it in the pocket, where it might (a) take that pocket away from your opponent, and (b) give you a chance for an easier shot on the 8-ball if you should get back to the table. This is nice because unless your opponent misses unexpectedly, chances are you're going to be kicking at that 8 if you get back to the table. :eek:

If I'm shooting a difficult 8-ball and think there's a chance I might miss, I'll probably want to play it pocket speed while also playing the cue ball safe. That might help my chances of getting back to the table, even if my only out is to kick.

Just the thoughts that came to mind. I guess there are pros and cons.
 
The way I see it, if you miss the first shot (hang it or not) and the table's open, your opponent should have at least a couple of easy shots to pick from. The only shots I shoot a little harder than I have to are tough combinations on the 9 in 9ball, because you definitely don't want to hang those.

I totally understand what you're saying now, though. However, there's a huge hole in your game, and its that you think about missing too much. If my thought process playing 9ball was to hit balls hard to not hang them I'd never run out. Same goes for 8ball.

It's you vs. the table, not you vs. your opponent.

I guess I also just have a straight pool mentality where I don't worry about what my opponent will do. I just want to keep making balls. If I miss the five playing 9ball, but hit it hard enough to get it out of the pocket, my opponent still has to run only 5 balls and I've probably lost the game no matter how I missed it -- unless I duck and play a safe.
 
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Koopa said:
(snip)
I totally understand what you're saying now, though. However, there's a huge hole in your game, and its that you think about missing too much. (snip).
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Lol....Well, I certainly did right after this happened to me. I wrote it down on a slip of paper that I just found in a pile on my desk, dated, 9-13-08.:rolleyes:

I don't really focus on what might happen if I miss---I think I'm beyond that; what I like to do is think about the percentages that exist at the moment. By weighing those, I can make small changes (in ths example, harder hit) that increase my odds of winning. I suppose it could be construed as negative thinking, but I think it isn't so much negative as rational.

I appreciate that comment though and will think about it. Thanks.

Jeff Livingston
 
You're overthinking this... every situation is different, there's no set speed for any game or even any particular shot. It all depends on what you have to do to make the ball and get position. 9 ball players may end up hitting balls harder as an overall average because there's often more cue ball travel in 9 ball. But that's just a meaningless statistic, not an indicator of how the game should be played or how you should play your own game. Play the correct first shot with the speed that allows you to get good position. Only second guess if the speed you're considering is so hard you might miss or so soft it might hang up.
 
I play easily a dozen different speeds in the course of a night. I play both 8ball (Tuesdays) and 9ball (Wednesdays). I can't say I've changed my speed at all between the games. My last shots are always going to be treated the same way I shot every other ball on the table because I obviously pocket all the others I shot. I don't know that I would suggest people playing specific speeds on the last ball because that is going to add another thing to over concentrate on, and you don't want that on the winning shot...IMHO
 
This is a good thread - lots to talk about, I think.

I think every person has a "speed" that's natural to them. Whenever someone tries to hit softer/harder than their nature, they tend to miss or get way out of control.

In my opinion, there is no set speed everyone should strive for... it's specific to the person.

For me, people can't see how I make balls because it seems like I hit every single shot at warp speed. However, to me, I just let gravity take over on my stroke and the speed is what it is. I find when I slow down my stroke, my mechanics break down.

You can control the rock in many ways and speed is only one factor. I tend to keep my stroke a "constant" while controlling my position with the angle of the shot (determines my CB speed in many cases), english and path. I might rifle a shot in just to stun the CB 6" to one side or another.

I guess in conclusion, develop your own shooting system and speed and don't create multiple versions that vary from game to game.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
This is a good thread - lots to talk about, I think.

I think every person has a "speed" that's natural to them. Whenever someone tries to hit softer/harder than their nature, they tend to miss or get way out of control.

In my opinion, there is no set speed everyone should strive for... it's specific to the person.

For me, people can't see how I make balls because it seems like I hit every single shot at warp speed. However, to me, I just let gravity take over on my stroke and the speed is what it is. I find when I slow down my stroke, my mechanics break down.

You can control the rock in many ways and speed is only one factor. I tend to keep my stroke a "constant" while controlling my position with the angle of the shot (determines my CB speed in many cases), english and path. I might rifle a shot in just to stun the CB 6" to one side or another.

I guess in conclusion, develop your own shooting system and speed and don't create multiple versions that vary from game to game.
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One of the first lessons I was taught in 8-Ball was to shoot slowly. This is so the ball, probably missed by a newbie, will stay near the pocket and serve the dual function of guardian and easy duck for later.

In 9-Ball, no such needs exist. I forget where I saw him say it, but Mike Sigel was the one who first got me thinking about 8-Ball speed vs. 9-Ball speed.

Anyway, since it cost me a game, I thought I'd throw out this idea and see who here might utilize it for themselves.

thanks to all,

Jeff Livingston
 
Lock em up

Its different on every shot - Whatever it takes to hit med speed or above, and park the rock froze to a rail somewhere. Every time. Dont play straight in for it, keep a little angle.....To let you get to the other end of the table, to an end rail....
 
With an open table in eight ball, once you have selected the set that you want it is very important that you strike the first ball with the speed that will give you the best chance to pocket it.

It's very important to pocket the first ball and sometimes sacrifice perfect shape in doing so. You must, if you have to, limit your opponent to half of the balls on the table. If you select a difficult ball to shoot at, or shoot it with too much of something to get shape, and miss the ball, you then turn the table over with multiple choices for your opponent to shoot at.
By pocketing a ball you then cut their opportunities in half. Then if you have to relinquish the table over to them you can do it as you choose.

Sometimes we have to select a set that is not the best but it could be better than trying a shot of low percentage and missing it and then sitting down and watch them run out. In games of these types we have to use all of our eight ball skills to win.
 
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