Radial Pin = Stiffer Hit?

TWOFORPOOL

TWOFORPOOL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All other things being equal in a cue does a radial pin make a cue play stiffer?

I have played with several radial pin cues and they seem to have a stiff hit. Is this because overall the pin has more mass and thicker than say a 3/8 10? Since the radial pin is stiffer it doesn't flex as much and therefore makes the cue hit stiffer?

I put this in the Main Forum so I can hear from players as well as cuemakers.
 
TWOFORPOOL said:
All other things being equal in a cue does a radial pin make a cue play stiffer?

I have played with several radial pin cues and they seem to have a stiff hit. Is this because overall the pin has more mass and thicker than say a 3/8 10? Since the radial pin is stiffer it doesn't flex as much and therefore makes the cue hit stiffer?

I put this in the Main Forum so I can hear from players as well as cuemakers.
Click to expand...

I think the taper of the shaft has more to do with the stiffness (or lack there of) of the hit more than the type of pin. I am interested to hear other responses.

BVal
 
BVal said:
I think the taper of the shaft has more to do with the stiffness (or lack there of) of the hit more than the type of pin. I am interested to hear other responses.

BVal
Click to expand...

I would agree with that. It may be a coincidence that some cuemakers who use radial pins are also known for building stiff hitters.
 
BVal said:
I think the taper of the shaft has more to do with the stiffness (or lack there of) of the hit more than the type of pin. I am interested to hear other responses.

BVal
Click to expand...

Thanks for your response. I have also always thought the taper of the shaft is the main reason for stiffness of the hit. However does the radial pin ADD stiffness to the shaft when all other things are equal?
 
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TWOFORPOOL said:
Thanks for your response. I have also always thought the taper of the shaft is the main reason for stiffness of the hit. However does the radial pin ADD stiffness to the shaft when all other things are equal?
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In my opinion it doesn't. The stiffest cue I have ever hit with had a 5/16 x 18. My josey was pretty stiff too which was a radial. I guess all things being equal the joint doesn't really matter. imo.

BVal
 
I don't think the pin should matter ... much

If the pin is maintaining a tight face to face contact between the shaft and the butt at he joint, it should not matter much what kind of pin it is. The pin simply allows the joint to transfer the impact to the butt using the contact faces of the two pieces.

No matter what kind of pin it is, the pin is in tension and does not bear the load (which is almost entirely axial) of the hit at all. It is simply an internal clamp to keep the two pieces of wood together.

I am not dogmatic about this. I am open minded to other ideas.

If you want to perform a mind experiment, imagine the extremes: a pin as thin as a mechanical pencil lead vs one an inch thick. The thin one will strain (i.e. stretch) more easily and WILL result in a more flexible joint. But pins are not that different in real life. Their diameters do not vary that much between extremes.

Two similar cues with different production pins are probably not measurably different. MHO.
 
BVal said:
I think the taper of the shaft has more to do with the stiffness (or lack there of) of the hit more than the type of pin. I am interested to hear other responses.

BVal
Click to expand...

I agree with BVal on this. The taper on my playing cue is conical from 13mm at the ferrule to .860 at the joint collar.
My back-up is cue has a shaft of 12.75 at the ferrule with a 12" pro taper and .845 at the joint collar.
Both have radial pins and Kamui tips. In my opinion the .860 is stiffer, feels like zero flex and I feel it is comparable to any LD shaft in deflection. Took a little getting used to but has improved my game.
IMO of course.

Dom
 
TWOFORPOOL said:
All other things being equal in a cue does a radial pin make a cue play stiffer?

I have played with several radial pin cues and they seem to have a stiff hit. Is this because overall the pin has more mass and thicker than say a 3/8 10? Since the radial pin is stiffer it doesn't flex as much and therefore makes the cue hit stiffer?

I put this in the Main Forum so I can hear from players as well as cuemakers.
Click to expand...

I agree with everyone here. Here is a post of mine from a previous thread talking about this subject.

matta said:
Royce from OB-1 told me about an experiment he did. I'm not certain on the exact details but it went something like this.... (Maybe Royce will read this and elaborate)

He built 4 cues EXACTLY alike except different joint pins. 5/16x14, 3/8x10, radial, etc...

He then taped over the joints and took them to the local pool halls in Dallas, TX. Dallas has a huge pool scene with a ton of top notch players. He passed the cues around asked people to try to guess the joint type.

According to Royce, they couldn't even pick out the cue with the same joint as their personal cue. No one could tell the difference.

If you believe this experiment, it shows that the joint pin has little to do with how a cue plays.

There aren't a ton of people doing "scientific" experiments about cues. Personally, I liked this one.

my $.02,
Click to expand...
 
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Shaft said:
If the pin is maintaining a tight face to face contact between the shaft and the butt at he joint, it should not matter much what kind of pin it is. The pin simply allows the joint to transfer the impact to the butt using the contact faces of the two pieces.

No matter what kind of pin it is, the pin is in tension and does not bear the load (which is almost entirely axial) of the hit at all. It is simply an internal clamp to keep the two pieces of wood together.

I am not dogmatic about this. I am open minded to other ideas.

If you want to perform a mind experiment, imagine the extremes: a pin as thin as a mechanical pencil lead vs one an inch thick. The thin one will strain (i.e. stretch) more easily and WILL result in a more flexible joint. But pins are not that different in real life. Their diameters do not vary that much between extremes.

Two similar cues with different production pins are probably not measurably different. MHO.
Click to expand...

Now this makes sense to me! Thank you for your input.
 
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