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tom haney
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I've changed my mind. - 07-28-2009, 07:50 AM

The main reason I have supported health care is because both Yahweh and Jesus clearly say that those who are well to do are to help those less fortunate.

Plus, I have seen what no health care did to my mother, my best friends,
and many of the working poor in America.

However, I, like my Rightie friends on here, have to start
looking out for number one.
I have an HMO, fair coverage, and I don't want to hassle with
lesser coverage.

Right now my doctor can squeeze me in for a visit every four months
whether I'm really sick or not.
I would hate for that convenience to decrease.

A part of me feels cheapened by this attitude, but, hey, God
helps those who help themselves, right?

So I say, boo Obama, boo health care, and I mean it.

Guys, you've won me over. Common sense outways empathy.
  
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07-28-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo View Post
The main reason I have supported health care is because both Yahweh and Jesus clearly say that those who are well to do are to help those less fortunate.

Plus, I have seen what no health care did to my mother, my best friends,
and many of the working poor in America.

However, I, like my Rightie friends on here, have to start
looking out for number one.
I have an HMO, fair coverage, and I don't want to hassle with
lesser coverage.

Right now my doctor can squeeze me in for a visit every four months
whether I'm really sick or not.
I would hate for that convenience to decrease.

A part of me feels cheapened by this attitude, but, hey, God
helps those who help themselves, right?

So I say, boo Obama, boo health care, and I mean it.

Guys, you've won me over. Common sense outways empathy.
Around 19 years ago, President Clinton told us that our health care system was in bad need of reform and dire consequences were in our future if we did not act now (then). America has the best health care in the world, bar none. I am of the belief things can and should improve. I do not believe scrapping our system for something that no one can provide details about is acceptable. I think it shows just how much the government ran public education system has failed when you have people that actually believe this is a better alternative to what exists.


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07-28-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hangemhigh View Post
Around 19 years ago, President Clinton told us that our health care system was in bad need of reform and dire consequences were in our future if we did not act now (then). America has the best health care in the world, bar none. I am of the belief things can and should improve. I do not believe scrapping our system for something that no one can provide details about is acceptable. I think it shows just how much the government ran public education system has failed when you have people that actually believe this is a better alternative to what exists.

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07-28-2009, 08:38 AM

Hondo, it sounds like you believe your care would be adversely affected by a gov't intervention?

I freely admit I have not delved deep into the pros and cons of state run health care. But, most anyone that has had a cursory discussion in state run HC, will bring up Canada's system. And it seems to me, the first thing people espouse is "it took me 5 months to get an MRI" or "it took 7 days before they put a tourniquet on my gushing femoral artery".

Or that in some instances, Canadians reportedly come to the US to get medical attention, paying full fare, because they can't get timely, quality care at home.

May I ask those here more up to speed on this topic, what conventional wisdom says the main concerns would be of a US gov't based HC system? (I think this is on topic with the OP.)

Thanks,

Matt
  
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07-28-2009, 08:46 AM

So is this sarcasm or not?

I like how "supporting health care" is equated with supporting the Obamination plan
  
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07-28-2009, 08:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolKat9Lives View Post

Or that in some instances, Canadians reportedly come to the US to get medical attention, paying full fare, because they can't get timely, quality care at home.
From what I've seen, every Canadian who can afford to, comes to America for treatment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KK9
May I ask those here more up to speed on this topic, what conventional wisdom says the main concerns would be of a US gov't based HC system?
I saw a Canadian woman on Mike Huckabee's show the other day who had spent 3-5 years on a waiting list, suffering from debilitating back pain, due to a degenerative disk disorder. They finally got around to fixing her, after wasting literally years of her life...Her son has the same disorder, and she's doing everything she can to get him care here in the States.

She was actually told that she "hadn't suffered long enough", and there were people who had been on the list longer than her, so they would receive priority...


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07-28-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by the420trooper View Post
From what I've seen, every Canadian who can afford to, comes to America for treatment.
Quote:
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I think that answers it all.

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07-28-2009, 08:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hangemhigh View Post
Around 19 years ago, President Clinton told us that our health care system was in bad need of reform and dire consequences were in our future if we did not act now (then). America has the best health care in the world, bar none. I am of the belief things can and should improve. I do not believe scrapping our system for something that no one can provide details about is acceptable. I think it shows just how much the government ran public education system has failed when you have people that actually believe this is a better alternative to what exists.
When it comes to the current system, I'll use a trite and stupid refrain made popular by some leftists a few years back:
Mend it, don't end it!

Gawd, I feel enlighted...

But you're correct, our system is bar none the best in the world. If we could just keep corrupt trial lawyers and dishonest politicians -with anti-capitalism agendas out of it, we could correct its government caused flaws and get it back to where it was been before a cadre of dimwits in Washington DC decided that they could make the system better by adding massive regulatory burdens, stupid mandates, and policies that made it too easy for greasy attorneys to get rich from frivolous claims.
I'm not one who thinks tort reform should make it too burdensome or difficult to sue bad doctors, but the current system (brought about by leftists policies and bureaucrats) makes it too easy for ambulance chasers to sue fraudulently.


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. - 07-28-2009, 08:53 AM

we have the best health care in the world. No one leaves the US to get treated anywhere else in the world. People from all over the world come here. Obama wants to pass this without people reading it first just like the stupid stimulus bill. It will just be one more thing the government has control over.
  
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07-28-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKM View Post
So is this sarcasm or not?

I like how "supporting health care" is equated with supporting the Obamination plan
Well, hondo did see the likeness of Obama in the shroud of Turin and he did report being possessed by the spirit when he entered the booth and it forced him to vote for Obama.

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07-28-2009, 09:04 AM

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Originally Posted by KoolKat9Lives View Post
Hondo, it sounds like you believe your care would be adversely affected by a gov't intervention?

I freely admit I have not delved deep into the pros and cons of state run health care. But, most anyone that has had a cursory discussion in state run HC, will bring up Canada's system. And it seems to me, the first thing people espouse is "it took me 5 months to get an MRI" or "it took 7 days before they put a tourniquet on my gushing femoral artery".

Or that in some instances, Canadians reportedly come to the US to get medical attention, paying full fare, because they can't get timely, quality care at home.

May I ask those here more up to speed on this topic, what conventional wisdom says the main concerns would be of a US gov't based HC system? (I think this is on topic with the OP.)

Thanks,

Matt
No one knows the actual impact of the proposed "overhaul", because there are no details. Not once have I heard how wonderful our present system is from any of the supporters of the overhaul. All I hear is how bad it is, when we all know that there is no better care anywhere else on earth. I can say with certainty that raising taxes in a recession/depression is a guaranteed way to continue the malaise. Concentrating on fixing the economy, which is broke and needs fixing, should be the laser beam focus of this administration. Focusing on our health care system, which is far from being broke, shows the misguided agenda of this administration.


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07-28-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
When it comes to the current system, I'll use a trite and stupid refrain made popular by some leftists a few years back:
Mend it, don't end it!

Gawd, I feel enlighted...

But you're correct, our system is bar none the best in the world. If we could just keep corrupt trial lawyers and dishonest politicians -with anti-capitalism agendas out of it, we could correct its government caused flaws and get it back to where it was been before a cadre of dimwits in Washington DC decided that they could make the system better by adding massive regulatory burdens, stupid mandates, and policies that made it too easy for greasy attorneys to get rich from frivolous claims.
I'm not one who thinks tort reform should make it too burdensome or difficult to sue bad doctors, but the current system (brought about by leftists policies and bureaucrats) makes it too easy for ambulance chasers to sue fraudulently.
Good points CO.
Seems to me the 2 FIRST main contentions to our current system:

1) high cost

2) too many people do not have coverage

My 2 cents, to mend it, not end it, and bring costs down:

a) although IIRC Bush did pass some tort reform, it must not have done enough. The doctors I know, to a man, scream bloody murder on insurance liability premiums. Get the lawsuits proportionate to the injury, by ? - limiting the exposure somehow.

b) stop the overwhelming influence of lobbiests

One last point, I wonder how much doctors are improperly influenced to prescribe meds, products and services due to kickbacks, or motivated by the "I scratch yours, you scratch mine."
  
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07-28-2009, 09:16 AM

And to think these people are making decisions that impact my children's future- their very health, for Gawd's sake!:
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/conten...51610&print=on


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07-28-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo View Post
The main reason I have supported health care is because both Yahweh and Jesus clearly say that those who are well to do are to help those less fortunate.

Plus, I have seen what no health care did to my mother, my best friends,
and many of the working poor in America.

However, I, like my Rightie friends on here, have to start
looking out for number one.
I have an HMO, fair coverage, and I don't want to hassle with
lesser coverage.

Right now my doctor can squeeze me in for a visit every four months
whether I'm really sick or not.
I would hate for that convenience to decrease.

A part of me feels cheapened by this attitude, but, hey, God
helps those who help themselves, right?

So I say, boo Obama, boo health care, and I mean it.

Guys, you've won me over. Common sense outways empathy.
Exactly! I'm not saying that people without health care should be totally denied health care. After all, they are destroying their credit while their medical bills get written off or paid by others and that's bad enough. What I propose is a sub-standard health care for those that can't pay for it.

Maybe medical students that can't graduate or fail their exams could be hired for pennies on the dollar of what real, good doctors make. It would be a win-win scenario for everyone. The bad students get decent jobs that they otherwise wouldn't get, the people without a health care plan get the medical attenton they need (somewhat) without running up bills they can't pay and ruining their credit, and Joe Taxpayer gets a little relief from footing others' medical bills.

Where do I sign for this Presidency thing?
  
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07-28-2009, 09:58 AM

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Originally Posted by DoubleD View Post
Yeah, actually people do leave the US to get treatments elsewhere. I know a person (US citizen) who has had multiple surgeries in Japan for his pancreas (apparently they are experts due to effects from the bombings of Nagasaki and Hiroshima). Loads of rich women are going on 'plastic surgery' vacations to India and south africa.

We also have an estimated 49million people in this country who have no access to health care (i.e. can't afford it/have no insurance).
For the record, I don't think Obama's plan is correct, but let's be realistic about the actual state of our health care.


You throw that number out there like you know what you are talking about. So I will ask you to substantiate your claims.

1. How many of the number choose not to be insured at the present time?

2. How many are illegal aliens?

To deny that the United states does not have the best health care in the world because you can get better plastic surgery somewhere else is ludicrous. You may also be able to get better treatment from terrorist nail bombs in Israel, because of their experiences, US health care is still the best in the world.


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