The Canadians

As far as I know the CBSA only runs this one event each year. The only income they take in is from the $25 membership fee’s players pay when entering either qualifiers or the Canadians. So I wouldn’t think there is much of a cash pool to promote and do the things we would like to see done(like no entry fee’s for Juniors, ect)

It would be nice if they could run a monthly tourney, nationally, to help generate more income. Something like Ontario’s 404 tourneys. I think Quebec also has a provincial league, with Open, A, B and C divisions. I’ve been to their website but its all in French and I can’t read it but it looks cool. It would just be cool to have a tourney/league format run, with the end payoff being the Canadians. As long as each event paid out to the players I think they could draw. Maybe 20% goes to cbsa or something.

I guess since all of the cbsa’s work is volunteer its hard to ask them to do more. It wouldn’t surprise me if they weren’t constantly having to spend their own cash just to make things work the way they do. Pretty thankless job.

Maybe its just time to get some new younger folks in there running things with a fresher outlook. Not sure what the answer is.


I know all the CBSA board members try hard and for that thanks!!!

well they could of put a poster up at shooters don't you think

Lets review our goals

Philthepockets said:

For a national event the mix of players for this is dismal. Representation from the Western provinces almost non existent. Not sure where this has all gone wrong but looking at the way the qualifiers or lack there of where done I am not surprised by the results. I get to most of the billiard rooms in the Vancouver area on a regular basis and I never even saw a poster for this event in any of them, something is lacking.
Either our Provincial associations are not putting in the effort or the CBSA is failing to properly promote the game and attract players from the provinces.
Pool & Snooker is in serious trouble in Canada, the popularity is waining and over the last few years the market for room owners and the billiard industry in general has been rapidly shrinking. I foresee that if this trend continues there won't be an industry in Canada, we won't have any rooms and very few players on the world stage to be proud of. There are many people that make their living in this industry, from table fitters to cue makers, jobs are being lost.
I know the industry is suffering all over with the current economy but I see that the industry in Canada is particularly effected as this trend started well before the meltdown.
Action is required, I believe our national association must take a responsible position and make every effort to promote the game within Canada, all of Canada. This means working with provincial associations, room owners and anyone in the billiards industry on a plan for promotion, grass roots development and exposure. Improving the image and developing new young players to international standards.
This will mean finding ways of making it financially viable for players to participate in regional, national and international competition.
They will have their work cut out for sure but this needs to move forward soon if you want to see the survival of cue sports and the billiards industry in Canada.

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I for one agreed with you, it seems that something is missing and I believe that someone like my self knows first hand the woes.
I someone has the vision to promote the sports will be a blessing
Take care and good luck

Western Representation at the Canadians.

Speaking for Alberta, It is unfortunate that very fews players traveled to Toronto this year for the Canadians....I know one thing though, they had every oppurtunity to do so. I have set up direct entry qualifiers all over the province from Edmonton to Red Deer to Calgary the last two years and the turnout has been a joke (It was better 2 years when I secured $2,000 in added money) and have lost money out of pocket doing this!
The attitude that some of these "players" exhibit in email correspendace with me and other players is comical...I won't mention names but there is one particular player from Edmonton that is somewhat accomplished and he picks apart dates for tournaments, talks about conflicting dates for some Snooker and 9-Ball qualifiers and to be honest is just no fun to chat with and has yet to play in one qualifying event.
The bottom line is that speaking for this province specifically....I see why nobody wants to do this!!!!

qualifiers

I can say that Brad has done a good job setting up qualifiers (alberta). I played in one last year and won a spot in the 8 ball event. I would have to say that the problem with western players at the canadians and no support for the qualifiers is entirely fault of the players.

I think most if not all of the great players in Alberta are too focused on how much money it is going to cost for a chance to become a national champion and play in the worlds. With the exception of Tyler and Edwin , because they understand that this tournament is a gateway to the world championships.Other than Tyler and Edwin i haven't seen anybody put in a good effort to get supported (sponsored) to travel to the canadians.

Most of the players in Alberta prefer travelling to las vegas every year for pool because its more of a vacation and good time rather than being serious about their pool game.

As for Mr.Grierson I can say that he has done good job with the qualifiers each year.

As an Edmontonian player, I am tired of seeing the canadians in the east/maritimes EVERY year. I'm sure you would see a much better representation of western players if we had the event on our side of the country from time-to-time.

The other issue I have with the canadians is from an economical perspective. Sure we can win a spot through our local qualifiers but what does that really get us? A $500 entry fee, which is a small portion of the actual cost to get to an eastern/maritime event. As a player who foots the bill himself, I find it hard to justify spending that much to go to an event where I have to finish top 4 or better to maybe break even.

Would I like to play in the canadians? Sure, but if I'm going to spend that much to go to a pool event with little-to-no prize money I'd sooner go to the derby or the sands.

Just my $0.02

SpinDoctor said:

As an Edmontonian player, I am tired of seeing the canadians in the east/maritimes EVERY year. I'm sure you would see a much better representation of western players if we had the event on our side of the country from time-to-time.

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Last year the Canadians were supposed to be in Alberta I believe but something happened and Shooters in North York said they could cover everything. So saying its never out there is a moot point.

You're correct, the venue fell through which was unfortunate but when was the last time it was actually held in the west? I've been playing competitively since the early 90's and honestly can't recall a canadians being held anywhere west of Ontario.

I personally find it strange that these events are held in the middle of summer. Around here very few players are in the halls this time of year, let alone attending tournaments. Last year a fellow who won an entry locally played only because he took his family out east for their summer vacation.

Dave

SpinDoctor said:

You're correct, the venue fell through which was unfortunate but when was the last time it was actually held in the west? I've been playing competitively since the early 90's and honestly can't recall a canadians being held anywhere west of Ontario.

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They were held in Saskatoon in 1992 and 1993 (I think), and in Vancouver in 1995 or 1996. For Vancouver I think the host venue was a hotel in the Surrey area and I remember a funny part was that they had everything set up and realized at the last minute that they had forgot to light the tables, so there was a big scramble to get light fixtures set up. They did a lot of good things, though, including having detailed programs printed up, complete with player bios and lots of pictures, and lots of good seating for spectators. The crowds were excellent too.

Sadly, I heard the organizers lost a ton of money, but I think that was partly due to the expense of flying Willie Thorne, Dennis Taylor, and Cliff Thorburn out for an exhibition match. Unfortunately in an effort to defray those costs they made all the players pay to get in to the exhibition, so a lot of them boycotted it, and that left a sour taste. The exhibition played to a packed house, though, and I thought it was a great idea.

The Saskatoon events were very well run, in my opinion, and even featured a young Marco Fu as one of the competitors. They were held in a mall and the organizers had set up what I thought were excellent playing areas with big scoreboards and some nice bleacher seating (with real chairs), plus you could also watch from the second floor gallery area, which was very cool. I don't think anyone had any negative impressions about that event at all. Maybe it should go back.

Since we're talking about this, I also went to the first event held in St. John, NB in 1997, which was a gong show. It was also held at a mall (I think it was called Brunswick Sqaure), which is a good idea - except for the fact that at this mall there was a huge atrium above the tables, so any matches in the daytime featured sunlight streaming in on the tables and making it just about impossible to play. Naturally there was no way for anyone to do anything about this but it pretty much ruined the event - especially the snooker event, which was held on the sunniest days. That was especially sad in that a big tarp would have solved the whole problem.

I remember complaining to Bob Hargrove about it and he said that they had known all along that the atrium was going to be a problem but, in his words, "It's the same for both players, and we felt that the exposure of having it in Brunswick Square would be better for the game..." - because what's better for the game then having as many people as possible watch good players missing? I played a match against Ed Galati in which his high run was 23 and mine was 11. Nice match. It came down to a critical shot and Ed was naturally shooting right into the sunlight and - and I swear to God I'm not making this up - the referee held up a piece of cardboard to shade the sunlight for him. But it's the same for both players, right?

By the way for being so concerned about 'exposure', the organizers had set up seating for...22 people. "We would have done more, but there wasn't room," one of them said to me. Huh?

The other thing I remember about that event that it was just about impossible to practice on any of the tables. I played in both the pool and the snooker events, so after the pool was over I wanted to get up early and practice alone for a few hours to get the feel of snooker again, but when I went down to the playing area (the hotel was connected to the mall so we could get down there even though the mall was closed) I was told by security that no one was allowed on the tables until an hour before the matches, and of course when that time came along you naturally had 40+ players all vying to get some practice time on five or six tables, which meant you were lucky if you got to practice for ten minutes. I think Bob told me that they were worried about the balls, because they only had a certain number of sets and they didn't want to lose any, and that's why they only had limited practice, because of course you can't trust 40 of the best players in the country to look after the balls. What do you think this is, the National Championships?

For more silliness, Rick Marshall and I did the TV commentary for the last two matches, and I remember the referee (I think that was Bob Hargrove too) told all the players that he was not going to allow them to ask for re-racks if the balls weren't tight - because he thought that was 'cheap' and the break is not a very important shot in nine ball, right? So as the commentators we had a monitor and during one game the camera focused in on the balls as the Bob was racking them and we were talking on the air about how important it was for the one ball to be frozen to the balls behind it, and then Bob slides the rack off and you can clearly see this gap between the one the ball behind it. Man, both of us just about cracked up.

Anyways, that nine ball event was won by Bill Ganne, who died last spring, so think about him as you read this and that way he lives forever. For my part, I haven't been to the nationals again. Do you blame me?

gromulan said:

They were held in Saskatoon in 1992 and 1993 (I think), and in Vancouver in 1995 or 1996.

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This is exactly my point. For an event that is claimed to be a "National Championship" to have not been held west of ontario in going on 15 years makes you wonder if it's really a national championship or an eastern championship.

I understand that the event was intended to be held here and the venue fell through but are we honestly supposed to believe that not a single venue in B.C, Alberta, Saskatchewan or Manitoba could have been used as an alternate instead of more eastern bias?

Alberta

Thanks Jerry,

Coming from a great player like you I appreciate that.
I will do whatever it takes to get tons of players out of Alberta to the Canadians...I am open to any suggestions and am still working on gaining additional funding to make trips out east less costly for our players.
I only do this to promote and grow cue sports in Alberta and Canada.
Especially Snooker....start playing Alberta!!!!!

like to see

D_Lewis said:

Last year the Canadians were supposed to be in Alberta I believe but something happened and Shooters in North York said they could cover everything. So saying its never out there is a moot point.

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I like to see the Canadians be held in Edmonton,Alberta and we'll show Ontarions how we westerns play pool.

seether said:

I like to see the Canadians be held in Edmonton,Alberta and we'll show Ontarions how we westerns play pool.

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That would be great. All us Ontarians sure could use a refresher course on what not to do on the table.......haha

*jk*

SpinDoctor said:

This is exactly my point. For an event that is claimed to be a "National Championship" to have not been held west of ontario in going on 15 years makes you wonder if it's really a national championship or an eastern championship.

I understand that the event was intended to be held here and the venue fell through but are we honestly supposed to believe that not a single venue in B.C, Alberta, Saskatchewan or Manitoba could have been used as an alternate instead of more eastern bias?

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what's also ridiculous is that various ontario players couldnt play in the amateur tournament because they had too high of a handicap or because they won a 404 tournament. that's just dumb since the 404 is handicapped and in theory, should give even the crappiest player a chance to win so i dont see why winning a 404 would get you barred from the amateurs. but as a result of this, some of the ontario players couldnt play yet they let everyone except the top players from quebec play which is just stupid. when they were announcing the finals it went something like "and now for the finals of the 2009 canadian men's amateur championship, we have a semi-pro from quebec..." like honestly what the hell is that. i was just laughing when that announcement was made, it didnt even make any sense.

seether said:

I like to see the Canadians be held in Edmonton,Alberta and we'll show Ontarions how we westerns play pool.

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We do not have a venue now in this province that could host the Canadians....The Q Club in Edmonton would have been the only place in Alberta that could have hosted it.

I don't even want to get going on the ridiculous idea of having an amateur event at the canadians where some guy who has no clue gets to decide on what is and what is not an amateur.(like that doesn't open the door for some favoritism) Just feel fortunate that a bunch of guys from the west didn't show up and stick the guy with the job of trying to figure out what event a bunch of strangers(that he's never seen holding a cue before) should be allowed to play in.

It would have been almost as laughable as when the stan james tour came out here and someone from the east set up the odds payouts for the stan james website. Nothing finer than someone who doesn't know 50%+ of the field figuring out who the real players are. I'm sure stan james learned their lesson when one of the 67-1 shot delivered some dough home to the locals. :wink: