The Sad State of Pool #1

Wags

Wags

2 pocket-one pocket table
Silver Member
This is going to be one long-winded post, so sit down, relax and plan on spending some time. A beer will probably help.

I want to start this article with a premise that: WITHOUT THE POOL ROOM THERE IS NO SPORT OF POOL. Rooms are the heart of the industry, the bottom line. Rooms are the entity that advertises for customers, finds and develops players. Rooms give the players a place to grow. These are the players that buy equipment that keeps the cue industry and all other manufacturers in business. These are the players that keep AZ billiards and any other successful forum alive. These are the players that allow ALL the tournaments, major or minor, to happen. These are the players that join major league organizations enabling leagues to exist. Once again these players only came in to being through the pool room. Why then is the industry that depends upon successful rooms, making business decisions that hurt the rooms? Why then are players doing things that hurt the room? Every room that goes down hurts every peripheral pool business. Most every cue, pool table and accessory sold for home use is directly associated to a room that was visited by that person. I can go on but understand, WITHOUT THE POOL ROOM THERE IS NO SPORT OF POOL. If you disagree with that don’t even bother reading on.

What has happened to the pool room’s income? Rooms have had to find other sources of income to stay alive. Why is that? PLAYERS, GET IT OUT OF YOUR HEAD THAT JUST BECAUSE A ROOM IS OPEN THAT THEY ARE MAKING A TON OF MONEY. THAT IS SIMPLY NOT SO. READ THE ROOM OWNERS POSTS ON AZBILLIARDS.COM FORUM AREA. Yes, some rooms do go down from bad management. But, when you see a room go down that’s been open for a length of time, there is more to it than just management.
First of all let’s start with the problems in no particular order.

1) Tight Economy

This economy we are experiencing hurts every room to some extent. How much depends upon your customer base. If you get casual players (1 to 2 times a month) then the room is vying for their entertainment dollar. “Let’s see, do we go to a movie, go to the bar, go to the pool room, go out to eat or just stay home, save the money and watch TV or play Rock Hero?” Remember, everyone’s income has been hurt over the last few years just by the gas prices alone. Add to that, every business has had increased costs in doing business because of it. Consequently, most businesses have had to raise prices to cover costs. This is causing a Catch 22 effect that it now makes it harder to spend the entertainment dollar. If you have a good regular following of customers somewhat serious about the game, it’s a little easier because those players have usually committed some of their dollars toward doing what they love, although, they may not come in as often because the dollars are tight. From my experience, no small business likes raising the prices unless they absolutely have to. Yet, gas prices fluctuate daily, grocery prices are way up, wages haven’t increased and all lawmakers can do are find more taxes and fees that just make it harder to survive. For room specific, property taxes have increased, sales tax has increased, fuel/electric has increased, supply costs have increased…etc. Maybe, it’s easier to find what costs HAVEN’T increased for the rooms.

Rooms raise their rates to survive and they just get complaints from players. Why don’t players complain to the other entities? Let’s complain to the small business gas station owner that you are not going to buy gas there because gas prices are too high. Problem is, the gas station owner doesn’t have any choice, they are just a delivery system and usually franchised by the oil industry. The heart of the industry controls the delivery system. Owners are entitled to make a fair profit. That’s all most rooms want to do, make a fair profit and a fair living. Problem is, the rooms, who are the heart of the industry, have no control. I could go on but that is enough said for now.

2) Smoking Laws (The Nicotine Nazis)

Smoking laws have hurt many rooms. I realize that this is a hot topic but this is what I know. I also know that according to political correctness, I am on the wrong side of this argument. The following part is just personal observation, experience and talking with past and present room owners. If anyone can come up with facts that dispute these observations, I would be glad to acknowledge such data. I have tried through state databases and tax rolls to find out how much these laws have impacted the pool rooms and the service industry as a whole and have had little success. I have talked with owners that tell me when no smoking laws were passed that included rooms and bars that there seems to be a uniform cut in revenue by about 60%. Minnesota was the last state to mandate such laws and owners there tell me the same. Two plus years later, these rooms have only recovered about 10% of that business loss. Few businesses can continue after such a catastrophic loss and in the Minneapolis area, how many rooms are no longer in existence? I named some earlier, but for you Minneapolis folks, 5, 6, 7 rooms? Those rooms that closed have impacted the whole billiard industry at some scale. When California enacted no smoking laws, the report I got from owners that they lost about 60% (again?) of the pool rooms and it is still not back to prelaw numbers. What is the impact of these laws? Every time a room goes down to these laws because of loss of business, the industry is hurt. There is no room for the finding and development of players, sometimes no rooms for many miles around. Any wonder it has never come back for California as they lost almost a generation of player development. The bigger rooms can survive by maybe getting players from rooms that have closed or maybe just out surviving the rooms that did close. What bugs me is that the rooms that got hurt the most were/are the 16 to 24 table rooms where the owner puts in a huge amount of time to make $30 to $40,000 a year. That also includes all the Mom and Pop rooms and bars. If small business is the backbone of America, why are legislators even involved? Don’t kid yourself, they knew full well what they were doing in passing those laws. Apparently citizens of the United States are too stupid to be able to make a choice of whether they want to enter a place where smoking is allowed. I have yet to see or hear of anywhere in the United States, where there is open smoking, of a no smoking room has been successful and not just scraping by. Let me know if there is such an entity. Thank heavens Florida lawmakers had the sense to exclude bars and pool rooms from their smoking laws. Wonder why pool is thriving in Florida right now?

Continued in 1st reply
 
The Sad State of Pool #2

3) No support for rooms from the industry.

Cutting into the room’s income is the advent of internet pool suppliers, most directly cue sales but also the accessories. Rooms need that secondary income. Every one of those suppliers cut into the bottom line of the room. Here cue makers are depending upon the room to provide players to buy equipment, but they hurt the room by giving sales to another peripheral pool business, the internet. Heck, Joss and Schon cues even make a line of cues specific for internet dealers that even the rooms are unable to buy. What sense does that make? Pretty bad when the room is a certified dealer in those cues, we get a customer that wants to buy through the room and we are unable to get the cue.

Nothing bothers me more than to see a regular with a new cue purchased on-line with the exception that they then bring it in and brag about what a good deal they got. This then entices other customers to do the same. All they are doing is hurting the rooms they like to play at because the rooms cue sales are now off by 50%. Most rooms can get reasonably close to an internet price (within $50 or less depending upon the cue) and the buyer has the opportunity to “test” the cue. Why would a so-called player not take advantage of: 1) hitting with a cue before purchasing? 2) Getting the cue immediately instead of waiting? 3) Having someplace that they can take the cue if there is a problem? (I’ve heard some pretty nightmare stories about trying to return a cue purchased from an internet dealer) and 4) support the room? Isn’t that worth the money difference? Most reputable cue makers have a policy in place that the internet suppliers cannot discount more than 20%. That at least is an attempt on the makers part to support the rooms but usually it is not enough to keep the internet in check. When the industry doesn’t help the rooms that create the players for the industry, where is it headed? The country is just beginning to see the results of this by so many room closings. Any player that bought their equipment from the area room, pat yourself on the back! A player that bought a cue from anywhere else, including the “trunk” salesman, SHAME on you. You are the ones that are hurting the pool room and then complaining about why rooms don’t do anything for you. When was the last time your grocery store did anything for you? When was the last time your phone company did anything for you? When was the last time your gas station did anything for you? When was the last time your bank did anything for you? Etc…etc…etc… Yet you still do business with them and probably don’t complain to the owner. Why do you think you have a license to complain about the room and how it is run? Many times it is out of room owners’ control due to money issues, just like many businesses.

While on the subject, tied into the internet sales is that good old “trunk” sales person. Who is that person? What are “trunk” sales? That is the person that gleans the internet for “deals” or somehow hooks up with a cue manufacturer and tries selling their wares in your room. Why would any room allow that person inside their establishment? They are just taking away cue sales from you. Of course, they wouldn’t exist if players supported the local room. Yes, they usually can sell cheaper. Why is that? They have no brick and mortar to take care of; probably don’t pay taxes on the sales, no insurance, no unemployment, no health, no liability, no employees. Predator, Bender and Jacoby cues have been known to lean toward the “trunk” sales. Room owners, if you have a “trunk” sales person lurking, bar them from you room. Don’t give them access to your customer base. They do nothing but erode your cue sales. If they are dealing in major production brands, notify the cue maker and make a complaint, whether you deal in the cue brand or not. Maybe if enough complaints are lodged they might think about changing their policy. Owners and Managers, if you still don’t understand about “trunk” sales maybe this analogy will help. Imagine going to your favorite busy restaurant, sitting down and waiting to order. In comes a competing restaurant owner that tries to convince you that you should be eating at his place. I would think that the soliciting owner would be barred from the property pretty darn quick. I don’t think the Chevy dealership would allow the Ford dealership to try to convince customers to buy a Ford. Name any business, not one would allow an individual on or outside the door of the business to steal customers. Any pool room that allows this, is a room that will eventually be joining the list of “CLOSED.”

Where is the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) in all this? Don’t they tout themselves as the pool industry watchdog/spokesperson? Just exactly what have they done to help the room owner? Oh, I know they have seminars for room owners at the annual trade show with 3 or 4 present and past room owners that have been successful. They have some premade advertising templates that can be used. But mostly, they are geared to business surrounding the pool room and billiard retailers for home tables, NOT THE ROOM. I don’t see them lobbying states that want to ban smoking from rooms. If I yet owned a room, I would NOT spend membership money for an organization that does nothing for me.

The BCA Board of Directors has one seat for a room owner, currently held by Nick Alexander from Clicks Billiards. I don’t know exactly where he is located because when I click on the link for his business, I get www.billiards.com. Odd? Is Mr. Alexander really a room owner or an internet dealer? Even if he is trying to watch out for the rooms’ interests, he is surrounded by an executive committee of rich industry people that make their living on the backs of the pool rooms. He basically has no chance to create room owner support as he will always get outvoted. In article II, section 2.1 of the BCA constitution it says: The mission of the BCA is to enhance the success of BCA members and to promote the sport of billiards. In section 2.2, (1): To develop interest and participation throughout the United States in the sport of billiards and to educate those connected with or desirous of becoming affiliated with the pool industry. I don’t see much effort on their part to follow their own constitution pertaining to the heart of the industry which is the pool room. At least when the BCA ran the pool leagues, there was some semblance of caring for the rooms. I certainly don’t see it anymore. Phooey on them. Even if they put forth effort to organize room owners, I wouldn’t/couldn’t trust them anymore because of past transgressions.

4) Leagues – Good or Bad?

I want to start this thought with a statement, “The only good leagues are those that you run in-house!” Why do I say that?
Leagues seem to have made themselves a necessary evil in rooms. I have picked on manufacturers, the watchdog of the industry, the BCA, and taken the wrong side of the smoking issue, so, I might as well pick on the largest league system in the world, the American Poolplayers Association (APA). BTW, the president of the APA is on the executive committee, First Vice-Chairman, of the BCA. M-m-m-m-m. This is a for-profit league organization that sells franchise areas to people that then run the leagues for that area and if they do well, can make a living comparable (or more) than a room owner. Using the figures given on the APA web page, they have 265,000 members, annual membership dues are $25 and they guarantee $1.5 million in prize money for their national tournaments. Let’s just do a little easy math. 265,000 members @ $25 = $6,625,000. If we then take that $1.5 million guaranteed money, it leaves an annual gross income of $5,125,000. That’s just on membership fees. I should also mention that they are not adding that $1.5 million. The APA is just making up the shortfall from entry fees to make that $1.5 million figure. On top of that are the weekly fees, apparel sales, table income from tournaments, booth rental, etc. Who knows what they gross? We never will because it’s a for-profit company. They don’t have to show books unless they give a public offering for shares of stock. Room owners, that is money that is probably coming right out of your pockets, money that could be spent in the room instead of being sent out of state. Consequently, I do not believe in any for-profit league system. That includes the BCAPL (Might as well pick on them too!). I know that Mark Griffin, owner of the BCAPL (I would like to say the full name but, I don’t know what BCA stands for. They have nothing to do with the BCA. The “PL” stand for Players League.), part owner of Diamond Tables, combs AZ and I expect to get an earful. That should be interesting. I know, I’m going to hear how leagues provide players for the rooms. Actually, the rooms provide players for the leagues. I don’t think that is an arguable point.

Another entity in leagues that bothers me is the BEF (Billiard Education Foundation). You are probably wondering how I can pick on a non-profit organization. I can start by just quoting the BEF mission statement. “The purpose of the Billiard Education Foundation is to further a standard of excellence and leadership within the billiard community by engaging in activities related to the education and cultural advancement of tomorrow’s leaders.” Ever since the BEF’s inception, 1993, the big job for them was to raise money to stay in existence and put on a tournament. This money comes from manufacturer sponsorship, donations, membership fees and any other fund-raising project that can be made viable. All that so they can have a Junior National Championship any member can attend. I don’t understand how that relates to the first sentence in the mission statement. Maybe someone out there can enlighten me. That must be there for just the juniors that go to the tournament.

The room owners are the ones that cultivate the junior player. Room owners are the ones that usually give the kids a break on pool fees. Room owners are the ones that give their time and energy towards a successful junior league. I never remember the BEF coming, calling, e-mailing, offering help to the room owner of any kind. Once again, the BEF is an entity that is just concerned about their own existence off the back of the room owner. I once suggested to Executive Director, Laura Smith that at least, a room should be selected for holding the National Junior Championship in probably a too strongly worded letter. I didn’t even hear back from her to discuss what I said. Here I am, an avid supporter of junior leagues and she can’t even find time to talk with me. Ms. Smith probably would have found someone that was willing to volunteer time and energy toward expanding junior leagues in rooms and in school systems. Oh well. As I said, owners are the ones that put in the work and time. The tournament is currently held in conjunction with the ACUI (Association of College Unions International) collegiate pool championships. Because of that, the tournament is held on various college campuses using about 16 tables. I can’t think of one room owner that wouldn’t love to host such an event that is held in the middle of summer. That might be one week of good business.

Continued in reply
 
The Sad State of Pool #3

5) What can room owners do?

Sorry readers, I didn’t mean to go on and on. I just hope you get the points. I have more but that is for another day.

Here we are:
1) Tight economy
2) Smoking Laws
3) No industry support
4) League systems
What can room owners do?

Let’s first acknowledge the fact that rooms will open and close and be run by other facets of the industry, even though the room is the heart of the whole pool industry. Owners don’t really have a say in what is happening. Currently that is dependent upon the whims of cue makers, table providers, legislators, etc.

If you are experiencing a downturn in income there is only one solution, diversify and look for cheaper ways of doing business. Here are some suggestions from my own experiences. The number one mistake that hurting rooms do is to devalue the pool in hopes of getting more players. DO NOT LOWER PRICES OR EVER GIVE AWAY POOL FREE. You will only close quicker. Your income erodes from the regulars and you are not selling enough to make up for the loss of table revenue. Here are some easy diversification and business ideas.

1) If you are currently selling food and drink, don’t allow outside food and drink past your door. If you are selling canned or bottled soda, get a premix machine from Pepsi or Coke. That will increase your profit per sale, you can even give more product and raise your price.
2) If you aren’t selling food, find a premade sandwich vendor, get a hot dog machine or make frozen pizzas like the bars do. By adding food, you will not be losing customers when they get hungry. Best of all you won’t have to add employees if you keep everything at the control counter. That person will just be busier. Players are old enough to come to the counter for what they need.
3) Add a variety of candy and snacks that can be sold from the counter.
4) Increase your inventory, or start an inventory of impulse buy accessories.
5) Purchase a cue tipping lathe so you can do customer cues. The more commonly used tips can net you a $10 gross income per tip. Shape and de-mushroom any tip that you install. Charge for anyone that you don’t install.
6) If you sell cues, diversify your brands and don’t try to compete with internet pricing. Explain to the customers why they benefit buying from you (explained earlier in this post). Even if you have to order a cue for them, let them know that if they don’t like it you will put it in your inventory. That only pertains to cues that you can handle and have a fair chance of selling. Ask for 50% down before you order to find out how serious the customer is.
7) If you decide to diversify to a full kitchen, keep the menu simple. This is a more expensive route so be sure of yourself if you are going to invest the money. In most cases you will not be getting droves of customers from the outside world. Hamburgers, fries, chicken strips, onion rings and their variations are usually plenty to satisfy your current customers. Make you plates full and keep your total food cost around 40% to easily compete with any restaurant. You’ll make up the difference on the premix machine.
8) If you business is still not gaining ground, you should seriously think about alcohol. I know that is a scary proposition. Before even getting serious, check out the laws pertaining to such a change. You don’t want to lose your 21 and under business. If you can do it based on the bowling alley model of laws, terrific. That means that alcohol can be served and consumed with minors present. You don’t need to go right to hard liquor. Many places allow for a strong beer license and, if successful, expand to the hard liquor. Understand that there will be many added costs to do business.
9) If you currently don’t have Junior Leagues. START THEM NOW! You are investing in your future. Where exactly do you think the next generation of players is coming from? They won’t just wander in. Do what it takes to create a league. When it is going, spend time with them and always give at least a half hour of instruction before play. Teach them etiquette, different games, rules, etc. Make it “The thing to do” in your room draw area.
10) Greet and say goodbye to every customer and do it by name. If you don’t know their name, FIND OUT. This makes every customer feel at ease and they know that they have found a friendly place to spend their time and money. It is your job to talk with every stranger that comes in and try to match them up with a player so they immediately have a “friend”. You should know the players that gamble and those that don’t and the varying skill levels.
11) Added money tournaments are just a form of advertising to get players that you normally don’t get in the room. Remember, always charge a greens fee (no FREE pool). Once a player is out of the tournament they cannot play for free until the tournament is done. They go on time. Use your skills and try to turn them into a customer. If you are adding $100 to a tournament, you need to do about $300 in extra sales (any sales) just to make up for the $100 investment. If you add more, it is always a factor of 3 that is the breakeven point. Owners, if you can’t do that, then wait for the players to start clamoring for a tournament so you have a chance to break even.
12) Cut you advertising budget, especially if you can’t quantify the results. Most advertising for rooms doesn’t have any effect on John Q. Public, only players.
13) If you don’t have electronic games, find a vendor and some space and put them in. That space can be a gold mine.
14) Buy used lockers and rent them to customers so they don’t have to carry their cue back and forth. Don’t store them for free. Too much liability. If you are taking the risk, might as well minimize it and make a few dollars.

I’m stopping at those suggestions for now. If they help, wonderful, let me know. I just have one final thought or dream as the case may be. I don’t know how many room owners visit this site, but, wouldn’t it be nice if we could unite in a room owners’ organization that had the power to dictate to all the entities that make a living off our backs. Just think of the possibilities and the buying power, of creating programs that would actually help the room owners by cutting overhead and costs. Understand, I am NOT trying to sell anything here. I am just making a suggestion as with all my other suggestions. Just allow yourself a moment to dream of the possibilities.

1) National buying power for insurance costs (one would think it would be a lot cheaper)
2) National buying power for employee health insurance
3) National contracts with soda companies
4) National contracts with cigarette companies
5) National contracts with various manufacturers (cues, cloth etc.)
6) Direct buying power from manufacturers instead of middle man vendors
7) A room owners’ pool league
8) A room owners’ tournament tour

I can go on and on but you can just do some dreaming on your own. Is such an organization even possible? I think it depends on a few room owners that can band together to start it and others will hopefully join in when they can see the bottom line profit increase. Better to pay dues to an entity that will work for you instead of one that does nothing for you. Craig from the Cue and Cushion in St. Louis, I think you would be perfect for this and if you think it’s viable, let’s talk. For that matter, if any room owner thinks that I am NOT off my rocker, please PM me with your interest and maybe we all can talk. In my dream, one or two owners from every state could contact the state room owners. Thank heavens for cell phones and free minutes after whatever time. You know, it actually could work.

Thanks in advance for the time and energy you have spent on this post. Hope it helps.

Jay – being a little nuts today.
 
In St Louis our Cuemaker has started www.stlpool.com for Saint Louis rooms and bars to advertise tournaments and charitable events for free. Also links to everyones websites.

Jim Buss is our cuemaker. He has posted on here a few times.

Lots of insurance issues keep us from making changes in our room. If we put in a grill we must have a sprinkler system. Cost $42,000

Since we allow smoking we are now considered a high level fire threat. The higher workmans comp and health insurance is not offset by smokers' income. I know I am in the minority, but I look forward to a non-smoking era in pool.

Most room owners I have talked to that lived through the smoking bans are happy it happened. It reduces cleaning bills, air conditioning bills and maintenance and increases income.

I know from listening to my customers, cigarette smoke is the number ONE reason customers walk out. To risk alienating 78% of the public is a risky business move.

I know for MY company to allow alcohol is a risky move too. I would have to shorten my hours, close on Sundays, raise my insurance coverage and kick out 30% of my business (minors). I cannot see the profits in beer covering all that.

I also agree the support to rooms from BCA and most leagues is pretty minimal. Their websites and marketing plans are horrible or non existent. I have learned through trial an error and seem to get more traffic to my website than the average pool room site.

Several room owners in St. Louis have attempted many of the ideas suggested and still failed. The economy is bad for everyone that is not on a government subsidy or bail out list. That is something only time can heal. For everyone else. Diversify and trial and error. Nickel and dimes to success might be the only way.
 
Wags said:
5) What can room owners do?

Sorry readers, I didn’t mean to go on and on. I just hope you get the points. I have more but that is for another day.

Here we are:
1) Tight economy
2) Smoking Laws
3) No industry support
4) League systems
What can room owners do?

Let’s first acknowledge the fact that rooms will open and close and be run by other facets of the industry, even though the room is the heart of the whole pool industry. Owners don’t really have a say in what is happening. Currently that is dependent upon the whims of cue makers, table providers, legislators, etc.

If you are experiencing a downturn in income there is only one solution, diversify and look for cheaper ways of doing business. Here are some suggestions from my own experiences. The number one mistake that hurting rooms do is to devalue the pool in hopes of getting more players. DO NOT LOWER PRICES OR EVER GIVE AWAY POOL FREE. You will only close quicker. Your income erodes from the regulars and you are not selling enough to make up for the loss of table revenue. Here are some easy diversification and business ideas.

1) If you are currently selling food and drink, don’t allow outside food and drink past your door. If you are selling canned or bottled soda, get a premix machine from Pepsi or Coke. That will increase your profit per sale, you can even give more product and raise your price.
2) If you aren’t selling food, find a premade sandwich vendor, get a hot dog machine or make frozen pizzas like the bars do. By adding food, you will not be losing customers when they get hungry. Best of all you won’t have to add employees if you keep everything at the control counter. That person will just be busier. Players are old enough to come to the counter for what they need.
3) Add a variety of candy and snacks that can be sold from the counter.
4) Increase your inventory, or start an inventory of impulse buy accessories.
5) Purchase a cue tipping lathe so you can do customer cues. The more commonly used tips can net you a $10 gross income per tip. Shape and de-mushroom any tip that you install. Charge for anyone that you don’t install.
6) If you sell cues, diversify your brands and don’t try to compete with internet pricing. Explain to the customers why they benefit buying from you (explained earlier in this post). Even if you have to order a cue for them, let them know that if they don’t like it you will put it in your inventory. That only pertains to cues that you can handle and have a fair chance of selling. Ask for 50% down before you order to find out how serious the customer is.
7) If you decide to diversify to a full kitchen, keep the menu simple. This is a more expensive route so be sure of yourself if you are going to invest the money. In most cases you will not be getting droves of customers from the outside world. Hamburgers, fries, chicken strips, onion rings and their variations are usually plenty to satisfy your current customers. Make you plates full and keep your total food cost around 40% to easily compete with any restaurant. You’ll make up the difference on the premix machine.
8) If you business is still not gaining ground, you should seriously think about alcohol. I know that is a scary proposition. Before even getting serious, check out the laws pertaining to such a change. You don’t want to lose your 21 and under business. If you can do it based on the bowling alley model of laws, terrific. That means that alcohol can be served and consumed with minors present. You don’t need to go right to hard liquor. Many places allow for a strong beer license and, if successful, expand to the hard liquor. Understand that there will be many added costs to do business.
9) If you currently don’t have Junior Leagues. START THEM NOW! You are investing in your future. Where exactly do you think the next generation of players is coming from? They won’t just wander in. Do what it takes to create a league. When it is going, spend time with them and always give at least a half hour of instruction before play. Teach them etiquette, different games, rules, etc. Make it “The thing to do” in your room draw area.
10) Greet and say goodbye to every customer and do it by name. If you don’t know their name, FIND OUT. This makes every customer feel at ease and they know that they have found a friendly place to spend their time and money. It is your job to talk with every stranger that comes in and try to match them up with a player so they immediately have a “friend”. You should know the players that gamble and those that don’t and the varying skill levels.
11) Added money tournaments are just a form of advertising to get players that you normally don’t get in the room. Remember, always charge a greens fee (no FREE pool). Once a player is out of the tournament they cannot play for free until the tournament is done. They go on time. Use your skills and try to turn them into a customer. If you are adding $100 to a tournament, you need to do about $300 in extra sales (any sales) just to make up for the $100 investment. If you add more, it is always a factor of 3 that is the breakeven point. Owners, if you can’t do that, then wait for the players to start clamoring for a tournament so you have a chance to break even.
12) Cut you advertising budget, especially if you can’t quantify the results. Most advertising for rooms doesn’t have any effect on John Q. Public, only players.
13) If you don’t have electronic games, find a vendor and some space and put them in. That space can be a gold mine.
14) Buy used lockers and rent them to customers so they don’t have to carry their cue back and forth. Don’t store them for free. Too much liability. If you are taking the risk, might as well minimize it and make a few dollars.

I’m stopping at those suggestions for now. If they help, wonderful, let me know. I just have one final thought or dream as the case may be. I don’t know how many room owners visit this site, but, wouldn’t it be nice if we could unite in a room owners’ organization that had the power to dictate to all the entities that make a living off our backs. Just think of the possibilities and the buying power, of creating programs that would actually help the room owners by cutting overhead and costs. Understand, I am NOT trying to sell anything here. I am just making a suggestion as with all my other suggestions. Just allow yourself a moment to dream of the possibilities.

1) National buying power for insurance costs (one would think it would be a lot cheaper)
2) National buying power for employee health insurance
3) National contracts with soda companies
4) National contracts with cigarette companies
5) National contracts with various manufacturers (cues, cloth etc.)
6) Direct buying power from manufacturers instead of middle man vendors
7) A room owners’ pool league
8) A room owners’ tournament tour

I can go on and on but you can just do some dreaming on your own. Is such an organization even possible? I think it depends on a few room owners that can band together to start it and others will hopefully join in when they can see the bottom line profit increase. Better to pay dues to an entity that will work for you instead of one that does nothing for you. Craig from the Cue and Cushion in St. Louis, I think you would be perfect for this and if you think it’s viable, let’s talk. For that matter, if any room owner thinks that I am NOT off my rocker, please PM me with your interest and maybe we all can talk. In my dream, one or two owners from every state could contact the state room owners. Thank heavens for cell phones and free minutes after whatever time. You know, it actually could work.

Thanks in advance for the time and energy you have spent on this post. Hope it helps.

Jay – being a little nuts today.
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Why do pool rooms schedule tournaments over the top of one that was already scheduled at a different room?

Why do pool room still let APA play?

Why do pool rooms kick out the best players in "open" tournaments?

I could go on and on.

Why do i want to pay to play on crappy tables?

Maybe its not you Jay but this stuff happens in the room all the time. It seems like you want pool to grow. We love this game ! If room owners would ever quit cutting each others throats maybe this will change. Until then, Hang on !
 
Answers for ososlow

FROM: ososlow
Why do pool rooms schedule tournaments over the top of one that was already scheduled at a different room?
We always look for available info before scheduling, sometimes it is incomplete and we schedule on top of another room. If we know there is another tournament, say an A/B tournament we might schedule an OPEN tournament. We do work to not let that happen.

Why do pool room still let APA play?
It's still people in the door.

Why do pool rooms kick out the best players in "open" tournaments?
I can't speak for other rooms, but my best guess is that the tournament numbers go down when the same person continually wins. From my post where I talk about tournaments, when numbers dwindle why continue. If you are talking about a certain person, I will be glad to talk with you privately.

I could go on and on.

Why do i want to pay to play on crappy tables?

Nobody does. We used to replace cloth 3 to 5 times a year. More than any room I ever heard of. Now we are down to 2 to 3 times a year which is still more than most rooms.

Maybe its not you Jay but this stuff happens in the room all the time. It seems like you want pool to grow. We love this game ! If room owners would ever quit cutting each others throats maybe this will change. Until then, Hang on !
I think it would be better stated, If the room owners would ever take the initiative to gather and fight the rest of the industry for their fair share of the pie, then, these things will continue. But alas, there will always be the guy that thinks he's into a gold mine if he/she can open a room

Wags
 
Here are a couple of observations from a player:

1 - Hourly rates. IMHO most rooms charge too little and try to make it up on multiple players per table. I think this is insane. Charge whatever needs to be charged per hour. From there, unless I'm damaging the table I should be allowed to have as many players play as I want ... or sit and watch it gather dust. Charging per player discourages more people playing.

2 - To those who complain to customers ... STFU. My favorite room in town, other than the owner, I never hardly go to. The guy has to make it a jihad to tell everyone who comes in when he's there that he has the lowest rates in town, pool players are cheapskates, and his customers should feel guilty for taking advantage of him.

Now, I sympathize with his business plight ... but when you have the lowest rates in town you are going to draw the tightest people. If your rates aren't high enough ... raise them to what the competition charges.

The guy actually has a very cool room in a decent end of town that's been there for decades and just looks like it should be on the set of "THE HUSTLER" and that Al Capone would frequent it.

The reason I drive farther and pay more when I play outside the house is that the guy makes it a point to ensure I don't enjoy it if he's there.

LWW
 
Man, I agree with all that, and more....

When I looked at starting a league in our town, there was already APA and a private league, all big, and all with different rules. The good players went to the private league, because APA nonsense that you described.

I called them, too, and they quoted some ridiculous price based on the population, etc. Bullshit. I started a BCA league, as their wasn't one, then.

I started before the split between the league and other stuff at BCA headquarters. I didn't involve in the politics, but went with the side that sponsored the Vegas yearly event, as most of the good players wanted to go......

I set up the league, and it got big. I paid all weekly fees out in prize money, gave away cues, cases, Aramith balls, and hosted a BBQ every year to pay everyone (in cash), and also cooked a very nice Fillet Minot...........at the bar that treated the players the best. I had some things I had to do, and passed on the league to a friend after a few years. The private league was dying to buy it, but I said "no way" as they were taking all the cash as profit. I did it for the love of the game.

The friend couldn't do books, and couldn't pay the prizes, and it died a couple of years later.

Last night I played in APA just for fun (after 5 years of not hitting a ball), and to hang with some old friends. I play at 6 level APA now. The balls were chipped, and filthy, and they wouldn't furnish a red dot. I had one, but didn't have any more Aramith balls. After talking to the league operator, the Captain of our team, and the owner of the place, nothing was done and won't be.

I'm not going back, and it's the middle of the season. Any one of the above could have solved this problem easily.............I would have even paid for the new balls, but the Captain simply shrugged. I'm done with all the leagues and am looking for an old time pool room, or maybe I'll hit the road.

I don't know how the room guys can make a buck, but I'd really like a place that was run properly........I'd pay whatever.
 
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Well, to be clearer, I have no issue with a room making money ... or even a lot of money.

As a point of reference ... I drive 6 miles further to pay $1.00 more an hour and wait longer to get a table because the owner of the nearer more affordable run is a whiner and complainer.

Again ... if you can't make money at the rate you charge then raise the rate. It's not rocket science. What's the worst that can happen ... you close a week earlier?

I'm semi retired now, but in all my years in business I can tell you that I had the lowest price only when I had to.

If people like the service you provide and like you as a person and your price is a little higher ... they will figure a way to make it work more often than not. And, to the people who won't pay an extra $3.00 for a night of pool to be treated like a friend instead of a problem ... well, there's no money to be made from them anyway. Those types of people provided 1% of my profit and 99% of my headaches.

OTOH ... if your price is lowest and you make people feel as if they are bothering you by spending their money there, well the price won't really be what keeps you going.

LWW
 
As for the first post, every word rings true this side of the pond with uk pool and snooker.

Cant compare the leagues side as i've not played in one for years. I do find the cue sales bit interesting though. It's been 20 years since i've seen a cue for sale in a club that is just one grade up from a tomatoe plant stick and that was in just the one hall of about a dozen i had been to. Doubt it's ever been much of a revenue source for room owners here.

The internet i feel has been of a benefit though, It's helped raise my game, provided a massive amount of information i would never of otherwise discovered and turned me into a bit of cue collector. Without it I imagine i'd still be playing once a week for a couple of hours as opposed to the 10 or more i play now.

As for non smoking rules enforced on us all globally by the idiots of every government I really wonder if it's been as bad as it has for other entertainment outlets. Personally the pubs (what few are not borded up or nocked down nowadays) have lost my custom entirely although partly due to my waistline trying to keep up with my age but i think theres been a bit of an increase in folks going to a hall instead. You do after alls said go to play the game not to drink and as far as snookers concerned its not exactly possible to substitute at home is it?
 
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Wags said:
FROM: ososlow
Why do pool rooms schedule tournaments over the top of one that was already scheduled at a different room?
We always look for available info before scheduling, sometimes it is incomplete and we schedule on top of another room. If we know there is another tournament, say an A/B tournament we might schedule an OPEN tournament. We do work to not let that happen.

Why do pool room still let APA play?
It's still people in the door.

Why do pool rooms kick out the best players in "open" tournaments?
I can't speak for other rooms, but my best guess is that the tournament numbers go down when the same person continually wins. From my post where I talk about tournaments, when numbers dwindle why continue. If you are talking about a certain person, I will be glad to talk with you privately.

I could go on and on.

Why do i want to pay to play on crappy tables?

Nobody does. We used to replace cloth 3 to 5 times a year. More than any room I ever heard of. Now we are down to 2 to 3 times a year which is still more than most rooms.

Maybe its not you Jay but this stuff happens in the room all the time. It seems like you want pool to grow. We love this game ! If room owners would ever quit cutting each others throats maybe this will change. Until then, Hang on !
I think it would be better stated, If the room owners would ever take the initiative to gather and fight the rest of the industry for their fair share of the pie, then, these things will continue. But alas, there will always be the guy that thinks he's into a gold mine if he/she can open a room

Wags
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I know Jay. I have heard this all before. The Same guy has been winning almost everytime for months. I will agree his attiude is better, but its not fair to others:wink:
 
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