No problem during gambling matches but cant win during a tournament?

D_Lewis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Im kind of at my wits end about this. I cant win any matches during tournaments. I have no problem playing $100 short sets against better players or spotting buddies a significant amount of weight on friendly cheap sets. I just cant win any tournament matches.

It seems Im always rushing, taking stupid shots. The players I play against always seem to find a way to get out of everything. My safety play is horrible.

We have a handicapped tournament series here every two weeks. The handicaps run from 4-11. I happen to be a 4 because I couldnt beat a blind guy in the tournament. I should be winning matches, I always have an opportunity at the table because it is alternate break.

Help!
 

Ironman317

Cash Me In....
Silver Member
Im kind of at my wits end about this. I cant win any matches during tournaments. I have no problem playing $100 short sets against better players or spotting buddies a significant amount of weight on friendly cheap sets. I just cant win any tournament matches.

It seems Im always rushing, taking stupid shots. The players I play against always seem to find a way to get out of everything. My safety play is horrible.

We have a handicapped tournament series here every two weeks. The handicaps run from 4-11. I happen to be a 4 because I couldnt beat a blind guy in the tournament. I should be winning matches, I always have an opportunity at the table because it is alternate break.

Help!

maybe its because you know that if you lose a set gambling, you can always flip it and play another set. try and treat every match, whether its gambling or tourney, like its double hill in the finals. its probably just more concentration than anything. jmo.
 

12310bch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
of course!

maybe its because you know that if you lose a set gambling, you can always flip it and play another set. try and treat every match, whether its gambling or tourney, like its double hill in the finals. its probably just more concentration than anything. jmo.

I am in a similar situation (although I don't play for those stakes) and I could never figure it out. But I think you hit the nail on the head. Typically, also, I play better in the winners bracket . Probably because I know there will be another chance in the losers bracket. Then when I get to the losers
bracket I dog it. Wow! Thanks for the insight.:smile:
 

m79a

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am in a similar situation (although I don't play for those stakes) and I could never figure it out. But I think you hit the nail on the head. Typically, also, I play better in the winners bracket . Probably because I know there will be another chance in the losers bracket. Then when I get to the losers
bracket I dog it. Wow! Thanks for the insight.:smile:

This is me exactly. I probably win 75% of the time gambling. Will usually win a couple of matches in the winners bracket, but when I get put in the losers it's pretty much over. I will play guys heads up for money and win, they have to spot me in the tourney. I have won a lot more money before the tournament begins than in the tourney. I'm actually thinking of just playing a couple of hours before the tournament, win some money and go home when it starts.
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Different emotional situations.

Im kind of at my wits end about this. I cant win any matches during tournaments. I have no problem playing $100 short sets against better players or spotting buddies a significant amount of weight on friendly cheap sets. I just cant win any tournament matches.

It seems Im always rushing, taking stupid shots. The players I play against always seem to find a way to get out of everything. My safety play is horrible.

We have a handicapped tournament series here every two weeks. The handicaps run from 4-11. I happen to be a 4 because I couldnt beat a blind guy in the tournament. I should be winning matches, I always have an opportunity at the table because it is alternate break.

Help!

Hi there,

Each one of these situations has a different mind set. A ring game, money game by the set,money game by the game,play for 5 dollars,play for 1000 dollars,winners bracket or loser bracket.

I played sets for thousands back in 1982. My wife at the time convinced me that pool was the problem in out marriage. I quit for a year and 1/2. After this time I went down to the bar to start playing again and was playing for 5 dollars a game and was so nervous. It only lasted a game or 2 but it was very real. I wasn't used to doing it anymore and just had to get my focus more on what I was doing.

The same thing happens when you don't play in a tournament. You can make all the shots in practice or gambling but in the tournament you only have one shot sometimes or oppotunity to get it right.

I quit about 10 times during my life . Some times for only short periods of time but it was long enough to lose the programming that I had in my mind for these dlfferent types of situations.

Now in a tournament you might be playing real well. Finally you are playing for 3 and forth. If you are playing someone that has never been there before you have an advantage. Now you are playing in the final match. Now we have a totally different situation again. The only time you can practice being in a final match is when you are in the final match. Regardless how big or small the tournament is, a final match is a final match. The mind set is different. You need to practice doing what you do in these different situations to be effective with them.

Ring game is totally different. You might not get to shoot for 5 racks and then you have to make this one tough shot. Different type of mental situation.

After playing in a ring game for awhile be it a couple of days or a couple of hours you will start to be comfortable with the situation.

The bottom line is you need to practice doing what you do on the pool table in these different types of situations to be effective. All the great tournament players know this. Some great tournament players don't gamble at all. Some of them feel they can't. But many times the problem is they might not do it enough to keep in the right mind set. And that's ok.

I always liked it when I would have someone come to my home town and play big money sets with me just before a tournament. If we played for 3 or 4 days I would really get in the right mind set for gambling and the tournament also. This worked for both of them for me. But I was already playing in alot of tournaments. This just made everything rock solid.

It's whoever can do it at that point and time. Mika won the US Open 2009. Everyone I saw made crutical errors at certain points. Mika did not. He made the shot when the chips were on the line. Is he the best player? Maybe not. Did he get it done in the critical situations? Absolutely.He was the best player in those critical situations that week.

No matter what you are doing with pool you need to practice in that situation so that you a comfortable with it. So you can focus the way that you know you can.

This is something that all pool players battle with.

Anyway, You know what you have to do. Practice playing in these different situation or try to simulate these situations when you practice.

But it's really hard to simulate playing in a final match at the US Open. Ask someone that has been there.

Ihope this sheds a little light on the subject for you.

Have a great day Geno.......................
 

paksat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How did I get into my head in the first place?

The first time you came up with this idea that you can't do it in a tourney but you can for money..

Do you think striking the cue ball is any different in these two situations. Last I checked, you still do the same exact thing on the table whether it's for fun, free, gambling, or tourney..

It's in your head.
 

Ball Banger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hi there,

Each one of these situations has a different mind set. A ring game, money game by the set,money game by the game,play for 5 dollars,play for 1000 dollars,winners bracket or loser bracket.

Yep Each is a Different Mind set.

Tournaments you have a lot of Non Playing sitting time that can become an Endurance contest in it's self. Then you play a short set, only to have more sitting time. Some tournament are a lot worse than others with the BS Waiting. It seems to me the bigger the tournament the worse it is. Also knowing who you will play next can work on your mind either way. The lesser player might make you too relaxed and not shooting well, while the strong Player might have you too up tight to shoot. But IMHO Tournament are nothing but an endurance contest.

Heads up play keep you in the game and stroking with out a big wait at any time. You also realize if you lose this game there is another so the pressure is not the same. You also try and match up at an even speed but to your advantage. BTW This is where most of us play our best.

Ring Games can be frustrating according to who you follow and the speed of other players. If you can get shots then no problem. But if you follow the wrong guy it is going to be a bad day.

Keeping your mental cool and rising to the occasion is what makes the Pros, Professional.
 

foxcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have the same problem,in my case I just can`t make myself concentrate on the tournament matches because I don`t feel the same(pressure for lack of a better word)as I do gambling.I always bet my own money and I guess if I loose $15-75 entry fee I figure it`s not a big deal.I know it`s the same as loosing $15-75 but it just is not the same to me.I know it sounds crazy but that`s the way it is for me.
 

12310bch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
love this thread

I have the same problem,in my case I just can`t make myself concentrate on the tournament matches because I don`t feel the same(pressure for lack of a better word)as I do gambling.I always bet my own money and I guess if I loose $15-75 entry fee I figure it`s not a big deal.I know it`s the same as loosing $15-75 but it just is not the same to me.I know it sounds crazy but that`s the way it is for me.

Yeah. Drive cross town for tournament, $8.00 for gas. Entry fee, $20.00
cheeseburger with fries, $9.00. Three soft drinks, $10.00. Tips $ 5.00.
Total:$52.00. If I had stayed near home and lost $52.00 gambling
to the guy that beat me in the tournament I'd shoot myself.:confused:
 

D_Lewis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great tips guys, hopefully we can get some more insight. Maybe from a tournament player or a road player.
 

George Fels

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You've had some good advice here...

...thought you might enjoy reading about some very good company you're keeping. The late Mike Eufemia was so accomplished that his home room - The Golden Cue, in Queens, NY - offered a standing bet that he would run 200 balls before the place closed for the night. Yet in tournament play, he had trouble running 20! Knowing observers blamed (a) the silence, and (b) the mandatory necktie, but the fact is, the root of his problem was probably that he didn't have all night to produce, just the match in front of him. GF
 

D_Lewis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...thought you might enjoy reading about some very good company you're keeping. The late Mike Eufemia was so accomplished that his home room - The Golden Cue, in Queens, NY - offered a standing bet that he would run 200 balls before the place closed for the night. Yet in tournament play, he had trouble running 20! Knowing observers blamed (a) the silence, and (b) the mandatory necktie, but the fact is, the root of his problem was probably that he didn't have all night to produce, just the match in front of him. GF

Great story George, thanks for sharing.

I have a tournament coming up this week, I am going to try and concentrate a little more on every shot. Im going to not take a shot for granted and try to plan a more efficiant run out pattern.

I'll post how I did on Saturday evening or hopefully Sunday evening!
 

Gatz

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Winning a tournament is harder than winning a gambling match. You have to play much more consistant and it only gets tougher as you go along.

I'm the same way as you dan. but the only thing I do differently is that I try harder in a tournament than a gambling match. I don't even get nervous in a gambling match (I don't play for 1000's though LOL) which can be bad. If your nervous it makes you focus and try much harder I find. If I'm not nervous, i'm not in the match, you gotta embrace the nervousness ;)

In a tournament im nervous and no I can't lose 1 match or my tournament could be over. Gambling (if you got the cash) you know you can just keep playing and playing.

It's also way more satisfying getting deep into a tournament than winning a couple gambling match's. I'm not in it for the cash, I just want to do well and win.
 
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paksat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great story George, thanks for sharing.

I have a tournament coming up this week, I am going to try and concentrate a little more on every shot. Im going to not take a shot for granted and try to plan a more efficiant run out pattern.

I'll post how I did on Saturday evening or hopefully Sunday evening!

I would change your pace up if I was you.
 

Pushout

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Been there. It's mostly a matter of experience. When I began playing in tournaments twice a week I began to play better in them.
It's also very true about the playing for money mindset and the tournament mindset. Most of the advice is good but I wouldn't expect a change right away.
 

8Ball48043

Addicted to the Sport
Silver Member
Im kind of at my wits end about this. I cant win any matches during tournaments. I have no problem playing $100 short sets against better players or spotting buddies a significant amount of weight on friendly cheap sets. I just cant win any tournament matches.

It seems Im always rushing, taking stupid shots. The players I play against always seem to find a way to get out of everything. My safety play is horrible.

We have a handicapped tournament series here every two weeks. The handicaps run from 4-11. I happen to be a 4 because I couldnt beat a blind guy in the tournament. I should be winning matches, I always have an opportunity at the table because it is alternate break.

Help!

Two Thoughts:

I used to do the same thing (play poorly) in league and tournaments. The more you do, the more familiar you get with the hall, the players, the rountine, the surroundings. Over time you relax and play your game.

Take some lessons from a qualified BCA instructor. You probably have some very fundamental problems. Get the fundamentals right ... Everything else will fall into place.
 

D_Lewis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Two Thoughts:

I used to do the same thing (play poorly) in league and tournaments. The more you do, the more familiar you get with the hall, the players, the rountine, the surroundings. Over time you relax and play your game.

Take some lessons from a qualified BCA instructor. You probably have some very fundamental problems. Get the fundamentals right ... Everything else will fall into place.

I play great during league and gambling, even during practice. Just tournaments get me.

I dont think we have any BCA instructors around here but I do have a coach of AZ Billiards fame, Lee Brett. He's back to Canada soon and I need a tune-up.
 
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