Please ID this cue, possible Palmer or Paradise?

I could have been Rich!

Bought a cue like this when i was a kid in Albequerque.
It was a Rich cue. Cost me $85 with 2 shafts.
Could have bought Jimmy Moore's Paradise with his name on it.
Thought it was too heavy for me.
...what a dummy

Fuji-whopper said:

A friend brought this cue to the pool room and asked me to try and find out who made it and what the approximate value might be. It was given to him by a well off gentleman that was close to his family and he has kept it stored most of the time since then.

The shaft is an inch shorter than the butt and it's thicker overall than the cues made currently, any help identifying would be much appreciated. Don't know if he wants to sell it or not but you never know, thank you very much for your time I know the folks of the AZ forum will be able to give the best information possible.

So far the guesses have been a Paradise or Palmer made either in the 60's or early 70's but that info is coming from a very unconfirmed source.........me.

Click to expand...

I suspect that the cue is a cue made By Rich Cues

Gandy

I have the same cue and I think it is a Gandy, made when Ricco Cervantes was there.
It resembles cues in the photo section of the Blue Book under Ricco, as well as the main section.
It also looks like some cues in the old Gandy catalog.

Looks like a Rich to me, also.

Value

Fuji-whopper said:

Thank you for the information everyone, tried looking up a price online but had no luck. Does anyone know of a ballpark value for this cue? Not looking for specifics, just an idea on what to tell my friend. Thanks again guys/girls!!

Click to expand...

You could contact Marco Cervantes in Chicago to verify that his dad made the cue which I think he did.
The forearm is shown on page 78-BB #3 only with the Ricco pin which is why I think it is a Gandy maed by Ricco.
Ricco worked there making cues.
Again it looks like other cues in the old Gandy "tournament cue" catalog.
They may increase the value if someone wanted a Ricco cue for their collection, but even then it's not like having a Frank Paradise cue or even a Palmer.
There's not too many of them around but I'm thinking $275 to $400.
Whatever someone is willing to pay on a cue like this.
If someone thinks they are worth more let me know.
I hope it's worth $2K

They are kind of cool just to have in a little collection.
Unusual to say the least.

Fuji-whopper said:

Thank you for the information everyone, tried looking up a price online but had no luck. Does anyone know of a ballpark value for this cue? Not looking for specifics, just an idea on what to tell my friend. Thanks again guys/girls!!

Click to expand...

You need to check the Bluebook - then divide by 5.6

IMHO - it is a Gandy as mentioned above - they called their cue
line National Tournament Cue - after the chalk I assume.

Ricco was the cuemaker - he later went out on his own - if it could be established
as one of his cues - I would guess the price would increase by a factor of 2 or 3(?)

Ricco/National tournament cues do look quite a bit like Rich cues.
There's prolly a story there somewhere.

Dale

Scan of an old Gandy cue catalog from Ricco, in the letter that accompanied the catalog Ricco said he worked for Gandy from 1969 - 1973.

billiardcue said:

Scan of an old Gandy cue catalog from Ricco, in the letter that accompanied the catalog Ricco said he worked for Gandy from 1969 - 1973.

Click to expand...

Dick,

Love the old brochure - do you know what year it represents?

Very evident the Palmer influence - and Viking with the dreadful
double steel joint.

Dale

I think the one shown is a Rich - this based on the joint. It's very difficult to tell them apart, but the Gandy's I've seen have the distinctive metal to metal joint. The value is not high, maybe $200 - $300.

Dick - thanks for posting the Gandy brochure!

Chris

pdcue said:

Dick,

Love the old brochure - do you know what year it represents?

Dale

Click to expand...

Ricco didn't say in his letter, just that he was there from 1969 to 1973.

Ricco then relocated to Tampa where he was making cues for Robertsons biliard supply, while there he trained Larry "Larue" Haymes.

pdcue said:

You need to check the Bluebook - then divide by 5.6

IMHO - it is a Gandy as mentioned above - they called their cue
line National Tournament Cue - after the chalk I assume.

Ricco was the cuemaker - he later went out on his own - if it could be established
as one of his cues - I would guess the price would increase by a factor of 2 or 3(?)

Ricco/National tournament cues do look quite a bit like Rich cues.
There's prolly a story there somewhere.

Dale

Click to expand...

IMHO - it is a Gandy as mentioned above - they called their cue
line National Tournament Cue - after the chalk I assume.

They may have used the name because from Mid-1967 until the end of 1968 Ricco worked for the National Chalk company building cues with Bob Meucci, Dick Helmstetter, and Paul Huebler.

Fuji-whopper said:

A friend brought this cue to the pool room and asked me to try and find out who made it and what the approximate value might be. It was given to him by a well off gentleman that was close to his family and he has kept it stored most of the time since then.

The shaft is an inch shorter than the butt and it's thicker overall than the cues made currently, any help identifying would be much appreciated. Don't know if he wants to sell it or not but you never know, thank you very much for your time I know the folks of the AZ forum will be able to give the best information possible.

So far the guesses have been a Paradise or Palmer made either in the 60's or early 70's but that info is coming from a very unconfirmed source.........me.

Click to expand...

Paradise almost always had multiple colors in his plastic work. Usually a shade of red or blue and white. I don't know what happened to all his old cues, maybe they all fell apart. I remember Frank well. He was a slick looking older man, trim and neatly groomed with a pencil mustache. Always wore a suit too. He drove an old Mercedes, the model with the fins. He was the first cue maker I ever met. His cues were expensive for the 60's, in the $75 price range.

Funny what things stick with you after all these year.

based on the joint and the rings in the bottom i say its a rich. 99%

Very informative. Glad I found this thread.

from the International Cuemaker's Hall of Fame.

Abe Rich: Inducted 2009

Abe was born as Abraham Rutschaisky. He started building cues in 1962 at his cousin Saul's “Rich Cue Company” in New York. In 1965 he and his brother Morris built cues as “Florida Cues” until Abe went out on his own as “Star Cues” in 1973. Abe had been a wood worker by trade and even carved wooden clogs and canteens while incarcerated in the Dachau death camp during World War II. Abe came from a family line of wood turners and prided himself on hand turning all of his cues. He did not use routers for tapering or pantographs for inlaying. He was truly one of the longest lasting old school cuemakers. He did not have any of the fancy equipment you might expect to find in a 21 st century cue shop. He had a simple wood turning lathe, a few pieces of wood working equipment and floor to ceiling shelves full of wood that he had been turning on for decades. Walking into his shop was like walking back in time a few decades. He kept turning cues by hand all the way up until he passed away at age 82 in 2008. Our industry not only lost a great cuemaker, but his passing closed out an era of cue making that had almost totally died out decades ago. Abe was the last of the popular cuemakers that turned all of his cues by hand on a wood lathe.

An interview shortly before he passed.
http://wlrnunderthesun.org/2009/01/the-pool-cue-maker/

I would think the value goes up now that he is gone but in this economy who can tell what anything is worth.......

I have this cue

What do you guys think this cue is? Iam really interested and need info on cue. thanks:thumbup:

hey

itzel0101 said:

What do you guys think this cue is? Iam really interested and need info on cue. thanks:thumbup:

Click to expand...

need info:embarrassed2: