Second CTE Experiment.

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
I wanted to post a CTE experiment (challenge?) of my own, but Dr. Dave beat me to the punch. In an effort to avoid distracting from his efforts, I'm keeping mine in a separate thread. My understanding of CTE is that the following are true:

1. You don't need to know where the pocket is to use it. Determining the CTE line, planting your bridge, and pivoting can all be done without referencing the pocket.

2. There are multiple edges to the OB, and multiple centers to the CB, so it's possible for a pair of balls (one OB, one CB) to have multiple CTEL's depending on your perspective.

3. Once you determine the CTE line, you pivot the exact same way for most shots (as long as the bridge length is 10-12 inches and the balls aren't closer than 1 diamond apart)

4. You don't need to make judgment calls or estimations when determining the CTE line. While a player is not supposed to sight down the CTE line... if he did, it should look like the cue is pointing to the exact middle of the cue ball, and at the same time it will be pointing to the exact edge of the OB.

If any of these is incorrect, please let me know.

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I have some diagrams for those who understand CTE and can use photoshop or a similar program. The diagrams are created on a 3D rendered pool table. The balls have a real location in 3D space. If I owned a table I'd just photograph it.

#1: Draw the CTEL line between the cue ball and the 9 ball. Then draw a 2nd line showing your line of aim after a correct pivot. I can plug this line of aim into my program and see if the result will go in or very near the pocket.
Info you need: You want the left edge (the cut is going to the right). It's a thin hit.

cte1.jpg


#2. This second diagram is the same pair of balls, and both have been moved 1 foot in the same direction. This really is a different rendering than the first picture, you can see the lighting has changed. Because the balls moved, the angle to the pocket moved. Draw the CTEL line for this new shot, and the resulting line of aim.
Info you need: Same left edge, and it's still a thin hit.

cte2.jpg


#3. Not related to the first two shots: choose any edge of the OB, and draw a line through the center of the CB. Then choose a 2nd edge on the same side of the OB, and draw a line through the new center of the cue ball. Both lines, when viewed in 3D, should visually seem to go through the exact edge of the OB and exact center of the CB.

cte3.jpg
 
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Nice thread. I remember a guy preaching center to edge to me while he was better than me. Then after a couple of years later when I could destroy him I asked him if he wanted to learn how to take his game to the next level.

You really need English to excel at this game and you are not always going to have a level cue so feel and memory are where it's at in my book.
 
I posted the same in Dr. Dave's "experiment" thread and I feel I need to repeat it here. We should go 3D instead of 2D in order to be able to explain, if anyone wishes to share, and understand properly. There are several ways to do that: Virtual Pool 3 computer game, Carom3D (free online download) and CueTable 3D version (Pool.bz forum registration required to use it).

Here is a sample picture taken from Virtual Pool 3 manual
sample.jpg

CTE users, I would suggest you should use either of them mentioned tools and make a step-by-step presentation of screenshots explaining every step you take. The example given illustrates contact point aiming.
 
I'm using 2D on purpose... basically to illustrate how senseless it is to have an aiming system that supposedly doesn't need to know where the pockets are. I could have shown the whole table or a 3D view, but supposedly CTE users don't need that extra info to come up with their line of aim.

However all this stuff is on a 3D table, just with a top down camera. So if anyone wants to draw a CTE line and aiming line for me, I will show it in 3D and we'll see if they can hit the pocket.

If I hadn't been fooled myself I would shake my head at the idea that so many people would invest so much time on a pocketless aiming system.
 
Creedo et al,

I am a double distance aim shooter. On thick shots I look at the surface of the OB and double the distance from the contact/impact point to the center of the CB. On thin cuts where the point of aim is off of the surface of the OB (edge), I have some difficulty especially on the 90 degree cut.

So I am looking for a solution and I think I have found something.

I have been using an/my aiming system derived from though different than the CTE threads and it works.

1. I aim the center of the CB to the contact/impact point on the OB going to the pocket. My bridge is 10-12" behind the CB.

2. I shift the cue laterally and parallel until it points at the center of the OB.

3. This relocates my bridge to the side of my original bridge location by the amount of the shift.

4. I pivot from this new bridge location until the tip of my cue is again pointed to the center of the CB.

5. I stroke while concentrating on a center ball hit.

How this differs from CTE is that it compensates for the OB being close or far from the CB. This is because both of the aim points are features of the OB - contact point and center of the OB.

The CTE system uses the edge of the OB and a shift that is parallel but not pointed to anything in particular and can be one cue tip diameter all the way out to 1/2 of the CB or the edge of the CB. There is no mention of sighting the shift to anywhere on the OB.

When the OB is close to the CB (but not too close) the distance from the contact point to the center of the OB is greater than that of a OB farther away. In other words the included angle gets smaller. This is because the OB will appear to be smaller the farther away it is - due to foreshortening or perspective.

From a top view the CB, OB and GB are all the same diameter.

From the shooter's perspective when down on the shot, the aim line to the contact point on th OB and the shift line to the center of the OB will appear to converge to the vanishing point especially when the OB is 8 feet away.

I believe that the same 10-12" bridge distance to the CB can be maintained for the shots for 70, 80 and 90 degree cuts and for all distances betweeen the CB and OB.

Notice the example to the left for a longer shot example.

Notice the CB picture in the lower left with the smaller appearing OB on the surface of the table at the lower left as a reference.

CTCPTC-Model.jpg
 
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