does anyone really care if their cues are made from illegal wood?

P

Piercyexclusive

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
just asking cause ....well cause I care about the trees that I am basing my life earning from...... such as 80percent of cues coming from philippines?

I was reading a post that someone was shhowing some cues off, when something clicked....wait....i said....isn't amboyna from the philippines illegal? kamagong..philippine ebony? narra? tugas...which can be called koa sometimes...? and many more?

these woods are...I mean are illegal to cut or even used for exporting any product...unless a few requirements are meet.... so ... I inquired to a few friends from there, who are working in customs, about these cue makers and what permits do they have if any..... this was because I wanted to get some wood there if I could obtain them legally.... and wanted to make sure all my ducks are in a row before I make my move to cut some trees and start exporting....so within 5 days they get back with me...

they tell me that 90 percent of the people making the cues from there DO NOT have all the permitts required to cut, buy, or to use these illegal woods for anything...they are essentially committing a crime to obtain these woods.....

ex....permit can be obtained to kill an elephant and take the ivory as trophies.... but are you ok with smuggled ivory on your cue...I mean really ok with that?

if I know how the woods are cut, when they are cut, how they are transported, smuggled and landing areas..... would you be ok with this and if I go out and deforest a mountain to obtain these woods you want and cause mudd slides everywhere in my wake and kill people, would you be fine with that?

I don't think that this practice is right and for people in the philippines making these cues with these woods know what I mean......


opinions?
 
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Interesting. Are people really deforresting mountains and causing mudslides that kill people?


Off Topic:
What part of Mississippi are you located?
 
its a third world country and unless you've lived in one, i wouldnt expect you to understand that permits is the last thing you would think about in a country like the PI. in the states,yes permits are needed, in the PI where the government is corrupt, they dont dont care too much about permits. Try making cues out of a third world country and then tell me how you feel about permits, know what i mean! just my 2 cents.
 
SOULHASSORROW said:
in the PI where the government is corrupt, they dont care too much about permits.
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Corrupt government is a problem everywhere, but that doesn't mean that people ignoring permit requirements are always right. In some cases, the government might have a reasonable point. The people might simply be using the corrupt government excuse out of sheer greed. I'd want to know more before assuming its all the corrupt government's fault and therefore fine for me to contribute to the situation.
 
Hijacking warning:

Hey, I just realized that Amboyna Burl is the burl from Padouk (a specific Padouk species?). You'd think I would have known this before. Or not.

Fred <~~~ carry on
 
Cornerman said:
Hijacking warning:

Hey, I just realized that Amboyna Burl is the burl from Padouk (a specific Padouk species?). You'd think I would have known this before. Or not.

Fred <~~~ carry on
Click to expand...

Very close. Amboyna is the burl from nara. The genus for nara is Pterocarpus, the same as padauk, but nara and padauk are different species.

Kelly
 
LC3 said:
Corrupt government is a problem everywhere, but that doesn't mean that people ignoring permit requirements are always right. In some cases, the government might have a reasonable point. The people might simply be using the corrupt government excuse out of sheer greed. I'd want to know more before assuming its all the corrupt government's fault and therefore fine for me to contribute to the situation.
Click to expand...

You hit the nail on the head here. But I'd rather say that the politicians are corrupt than the government. The U.S.A.politicians ,for the most part, are getting their baksheesh one way or the other. They're just a little more sophisticated than in the 3rd world countries.:mad:
 
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This is the very reason I keep a spotted owl in my truck. I'm from the Pacific Northwest and up there cutting down trees is killing off the spotted owls, so instead of cutting the trees...we all keep spotted owls to wipe our asses with...and now my owl is REALLY spotted:rolleyes:

Glen

PS. "Permits" is another word for "pay us some money"...where do you think the "permits" money ends up?
 
As I see it, you put a tree's life above that of a human. By obstructing the PI cuemakers' ability to work, you are starving their families. Who's the bad guy now? Do you really think PI cuemakers have trucks & saws & crews of men to go clear a mountain of it's hardwoods......just to build cues with? Are you serious? I think it's wise to be realistic before becoming fanatical. Cuemakers aren't to blame for anything. It's the government & how it regulates the foresting market. Here in the USA we have forest management regulations & laws that dictate how our loggers conduct operations. Key words are "forest management". Take every cue from the PI in the course of a year & you can add it up to the equivelant of maybe a maximum of ten trees, hardly anything that could cause a landslide. Point being, you are barking up the wrong tree ....... pun intended.
 
Piercyexclusive said:
just asking cause ....well cause I care about the trees that I am basing my life earning from...... such as 80percent of cues coming from philippines?

I was reading a post that someone was shhowing some cues off, when something clicked....wait....i said....isn't amboyna from the philippines illegal? kamagong..philippine ebony? narra? tugas...which can be called koa sometimes...? and many more?

these woods are...I mean are illegal to cut or even used for exporting any product...unless a few requirements are meet.... so ... I inquired to a few friends from there, who are working in customs, about these cue makers and what permits do they have if any..... this was because I wanted to get some wood there if I could obtain them legally.... and wanted to make sure all my ducks are in a row before I make my move to cut some trees and start exporting....so within 5 days they get back with me...

they tell me that 90 percent of the people making the cues from there DO NOT have all the permitts required to cut, buy, or to use these illegal woods for anything...they are essentially committing a crime to obtain these woods.....

ex....permit can be obtained to kill an elephant and take the ivory as trophies.... but are you ok with smuggled ivory on your cue...I mean really ok with that?

if I know how the woods are cut, when they are cut, how they are transported, smuggled and landing areas..... would you be ok with this and if I go out and deforest a mountain to obtain these woods you want and cause mudd slides everywhere in my wake and kill people, would you be fine with that?

I don't think that this practice is right and for people in the philippines making these cues with these woods know what I mean......


opinions?
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In ideology, maybe. In practicality, cue making isn't enough volume to put a nick on the world's trees. It would be like saying spitting in the ocean is polluting it.

More hardwood is likely used on one decent yacht or luxury hotel than all the cue makers here and overseas could ever use. When you think of the tens of thousands of boats, decks, luxury resorts, private houses, and millions of pieces of furniture - it's staggering the amount of tropical hardwoods that are used.


Chris
 
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SOULHASSORROW said:
its a third world country and unless you've lived in one, i wouldnt expect you to understand that permits is the last thing you would think about in a country like the PI. in the states,yes permits are needed, in the PI where the government is corrupt, they dont dont care too much about permits. Try making cues out of a third world country and then tell me how you feel about permits, know what i mean! just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

I am a filipino! yes I did live there and still visit every year and I speak 6 different languages ....not dialects. AND like you said unless you lived there youll understand too that people there do not understand conservation. They are overharvesting all the time..... I know.. ex. if you motice when you go from one island to another the fishes there are getting smaller and smaller. AND before I came here I did try to make cues in the philippines. Thats when I found out about everything!!! and people there do not know how to conserve.
 
Piercyexclusive said:
just asking cause ....well cause I care about the trees that I am basing my life earning from...... such as 80percent of cues coming from philippines?

I was reading a post that someone was shhowing some cues off, when something clicked....wait....i said....isn't amboyna from the philippines illegal? kamagong..philippine ebony? narra? tugas...which can be called koa sometimes...? and many more?

these woods are...I mean are illegal to cut or even used for exporting any product...unless a few requirements are meet.... so ... I inquired to a few friends from there, who are working in customs, about these cue makers and what permits do they have if any..... this was because I wanted to get some wood there if I could obtain them legally.... and wanted to make sure all my ducks are in a row before I make my move to cut some trees and start exporting....so within 5 days they get back with me...

they tell me that 90 percent of the people making the cues from there DO NOT have all the permitts required to cut, buy, or to use these illegal woods for anything...they are essentially committing a crime to obtain these woods.....

ex....permit can be obtained to kill an elephant and take the ivory as trophies.... but are you ok with smuggled ivory on your cue...I mean really ok with that?

if I know how the woods are cut, when they are cut, how they are transported, smuggled and landing areas..... would you be ok with this and if I go out and deforest a mountain to obtain these woods you want and cause mudd slides everywhere in my wake and kill people, would you be fine with that?

I don't think that this practice is right and for people in the philippines making these cues with these woods know what I mean......


opinions?
Click to expand...

I feel good about the Ivory, because elephants are evil spiteful creatures who would kill us all if given the chance.

I think it is terrible when any innocent person dies, but if a fine cue is made I believe their spirit lives on forever, and the beautiful piece of billiard equipment is a testament to their sacrifice. I am sure we would all appreciate such a lasting tribute!
 
qbilder said:
As I see it, you put a tree's life above that of a human. By obstructing the PI cuemakers' ability to work, you are starving their families. Who's the bad guy now? Do you really think PI cuemakers have trucks & saws & crews of men to go clear a mountain of it's hardwoods......just to build cues with? Are you serious? I think it's wise to be realistic before becoming fanatical. Cuemakers aren't to blame for anything. It's the government & how it regulates the foresting market. Here in the USA we have forest management regulations & laws that dictate how our loggers conduct operations. Key words are "forest management". Take every cue from the PI in the course of a year & you can add it up to the equivelant of maybe a maximum of ten trees, hardly anything that could cause a landslide. Point being, you are barking up the wrong tree ....... pun intended.
Click to expand...

does this mean that we shoudl allow all illegal immigrants in the US give them jobs and sacntuary cause they need to feed their families? is that ok? what are the consequence by allowing them to work anywhere and everywhere while breaking the law.... can I rob you and be ok with you cause I need to feed my family?

they hire crews.... I know ex.... benneys q's from pampanga hires them cause they make cues for more than 1 cue maker..... and they stipp one half the mountain at nights and then move on to another. what's that....? they use what they can then they sell the rest to the vietnamess---sp ? and china. but they are still cutting for the cues..... And I am not saying that the cue builder is to blame for land slides I am saying that they contribute to it.... by inabling. like when you buy ivory from smuggled tusk.....dont you think you would be inabling that type of crime. don't try to justify that they are only useing a small about to be ok..... what if I was robbing you account .12 a transaction would you be ok with that...... if so give me your account number it's ok with you right?
 
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