AZBilliards Cue Build off cues revealed

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
OK, here goes. After about a year on the road, being tested all over the USA. Here is the list of the cuemakers involved.


Cue #1 Scott Gracio http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=17493

Cue #2 B&D Custom http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=43973

Cue #3 Denali Cues http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=5409

Cue #4 Sliprock http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=1163

Cue#5 Sugartree Eric Crisp

Cue #6 Wes Hunter http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=11336

Cue #7 Sneaky Pete vasilios http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=55296
 

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hangemhigh

Known Sinner
Silver Member
OK, here goes. After about a year on the road, being tested all over the USA. Here is the list of the cuemakers involved.


Cue #1 Scott Gracio http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=17493

Cue #2 B&D Custom http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=43973

Cue #3 Denali Cues http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=5409

Cue #4 Sliprock http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=1163

Cue#5 Does not wish to be recognized

Cue #6 Wes Hunter http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=11336

Cue #7 Sneaky Pete vasilios http://forums.azbilliards.com/member.php?u=55296

So you have 7 cue makers, but 6 cues pictured. Which cue belongs to who? Also, who was the overall winner of the reviews?
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
So you have 7 cue makers, but 6 cues pictured. Which cue belongs to who? Also, who was the overall winner of the reviews?

The 7th cue, was a sneaky pete...it couldnt be thrown in on the evaluations.....I will post the pic of the sneaky when in get home in about 1hr.

Really wasnt a winner, or loser of the evaluation in my opinion..everyone is different, and the evaluations were litterally all over the place. What cue I liked, others thought it sucked and vice versa...this was pretty much a tool to get some cues in peoples hands that have never heard of some of these cuemakers.....

I appreciate each and every cuemaker involved. I appreciate each and everyone that contributed to the reviews.

I will post more when I get home.
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
Cue on the bottom is of the Vasilios Sneaky pete...it is cue #7
 

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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
How did the JB Bazooka Case hold up? Did it protect the cues and travel well or are there some improvements we need to make.
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
John, the case held up great. When I get the case and cues to me, I will take pictures of it and show you the issues I had with it. I think though, the issues I have with it were from not properly putting the cues in it properly from one of the testers. Its not a big deal, but I know how you are about always trying to improve on what you have and I admire that.

Overall, I would give the JB Cases, AZB Cue Buildoff/Bazooka Holder a 9.5 out of 10

Thank you very much John, for donating this, without you, these cues absolutely would have not made it throughout the journey..

Shawn Smith
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
When are these going to be sold?

ken


I should get the cues back in the next week. I will post them in the for sale forum then. I have to get with each cuemaker to double check on what they want me to do with them. But I will post what each cuemaker wants me to do with their cue. I am thinking it might be better to have an auction on each cue...either way, I will let it be known in the next week.

Shawn
 

John Biddle

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Shawn, I am very disappointed that the maker of Cue #5 has asked that his name not be revealed, and I am equally disappointed that you don't publish the name anyway. Wasn't it know from the beginning that publishing the cuemaker names when the experiment was over was part of the deal?

Personally I really liked cue #5, and it was the runaway winner for the people who reviewed the cues on my watch. I just don't think it's fair that this cuemaker backs out at this late date. If the cue was a big loser I might feel differently, but probably not even then, since everyone knew the deal from the beginning.

But since this cue was so well liked I just do not understand the basis on which you would agree to honor this cuemaker's request for anonymity. I know this might seem harsh, but I think any other result is an insult to all the cuemakers who stand by their product no matter what.
 

Cueballdg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cue #5

I also loved that cue and posted in the other thread that I would have liked to know who the builder was.
I guess that person has there reasons but I agree with the last post that the deal was we would know at the end.
Maybe the builder of cue#5 could PM the interested parties to see about ordering a cue.
I really thought that was what this build off was supposed to be.
Now our only hope as it stands is to outbid everyone else for the one cue.

Just my 2 cents.

Cueballdg
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
I understand everyones frustrations on cue #5. I did not know who made cue # 5 until the very end of the build off. He flat out said he did not want his name involved in the build off, he just wanted there to be enough cues in there for people to test out. This is not how I wanted it to be, but thats how it turned out and we just have to roll with it even if we do not agree with it.

I gave the person my word I would not say, and trust me guys, I am not gonna break my word no matter the outcome, that is just how I am. Granted, I did not agree with the name not being revealed, but they had thier reasons and I will honor it. Im sorry, I just cant break my promise to this person.

I have not heard from every cuemaker yet, but will post what they are wanting to do with thier cues.

Cue #1 Scott Gracio - Will not be sold

Cue #2 B&D Custom - They want me to keep the cue in my pool hall to promote it and to get possible business for them

Cue #3 Denali Cues - he wants his cue back to donate to the Wounded Warrior Project "Kudos go out to Denali Cues on that gesture"

Cue #4 Sliprock - As of now, wants the cue back to inspect and then send it to me to auction it off.

Cue # 5 Sugartree - Donated to Manny Perez

Cue #6 Wes Hunter - Wants his cue back to donate to someone in need

Cue #7 Sneaky Pete vasilios - He wants his cue back

I know this was not how we were going to do this, but it is what it is and I apologise for that. With this being the first AZ Build off, I still think we accomplished quite a bit. Thanks go out to all the testers who gave the feedback for the cues, to the guys that received the cues, and did not provide any feedback, well, you guys were a big dissapointment.

Also, we had 3 other very well known and respected cuemakers that were supposed to make cues for this, but they literally backed out on the last day. That was a major dissapointment for me, but thats just how it goes.

Once the cues are in my hands again, I will post a final feedback on the cues and case that John Barton donated along with pictures of the aftermath of traveling all around the USA. I will also post the results of how each cue did overall. I will also be posting pictures of the cues and case.

I have learned alot on doing this. The next buildoff will definately be different, and will have much more expensive cues.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
May I suggest that if anyone is interested in knowing who built cue #5 or in discussing a cue with him that they send a PM to Shawn. Then Shawn can forward the information to the mystery cue maker and that person can contact the prospective customers if they wish to.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Also Shawn, you have probably already thought of this suggestion but I will toss it out anyway.

I think a good idea would be do something like the ICCS does. They have a theme collection each year of cues built by many makers to the theme. The retail on each cue is supposed to be capped at 5k per but sometimes the cuemaker's build cues worth more. Then ususally someone will buy the whole collection and the cuemaker's all share in teh proceeds.

Perhaps you could offer up the collection of build off cues (next time) in this manner.
 

ftgokie

D player extraordinaire
Silver Member
Also Shawn, you have probably already thought of this suggestion but I will toss it out anyway.

I think a good idea would be do something like the ICCS does. They have a theme collection each year of cues built by many makers to the theme. The retail on each cue is supposed to be capped at 5k per but sometimes the cuemaker's build cues worth more. Then ususally someone will buy the whole collection and the cuemaker's all share in teh proceeds.

Perhaps you could offer up the collection of build off cues (next time) in this manner.

Thanks John.

I will contact cuemaker #5 and see if that is ok with him...I know if he is willing to even do that, a person shouldnt expect a cue for 3-4yrs...

Also, your idea about what the ICCS does...that is being tossed around right now. That is a a great idea though......thanks for all your input John, your wisdom is always welcome and I appreciate what you did for the build off!

Shawn
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
To all who feel affected, I owe a giant apology. I built the 5th cue. I apologize mostly to the other cuemakers and hope they can understand my position & purpose.

Toward the end of the logistical planning, several of the builders "suddenly" decided they couldn't send cues. One even just quit communicating instead of offering a reason. This left Shawn standing with his pants down, showing his ass to the world. He had put in a ton of time & effort to make it happen, even giving several time extensions to the builders. I felt bad for him & I tried helping him in the only way I know how. I began looking for cuemakers. Only one cuemaker agreed, which was Wes Hunter, but he only agreed on the condition that I would as well. I was kind in a tough spot & chose the lesser of two evils. I would help Shawn, a friend, even if it meant taking some heat for it myself. Wes & I literally had days to build our cues & we each did the best we could given the time we had to prepare. I don't want to speak for Wes, but given as much time as the rest, i'm sure each of us could have provided something better for everybody. I thank him for helping me. It essencially was me asking a friend for help to help another friend. He wasn't happy about the short notice & only did so because I pulled the friend card on him. Thank you again, Wes.

Most regretably, I was supposed to stay out of it. I was only supposed to referee & assign numbers. I am very much sorry to everybody for getting involved. I did the duty I said i'd do and I did it with absolutely no bias. If anything, I tried to be sure my cue had no extra frills anywhere of any kind that would pursuade bias. I wanted to remain anonymous because I had nothing to gain nor lose. I didn't want anybody wanting to order a cue from me because they liked the tester, and me have to tell them no. That kinda defeats the purpose. So I thought it would be best to remain anonymous to avoid any hurt feelings or misled testers. As I see now, my fears of having to speak up have become apparent. I knew i'd take some heat, but it's worth it to me in trade for helping a friend. What i'm not ok with is Shawn taking heat for me. He never knew until testing was completed. He wasn't happy about me remaining anonymous & didn't see anything wrong with me building a cue, but honored my wishes. Him taking heat for this is why I am posting this now. He was simply covering my ass the way I tried covering his ass. It's what friends do. So again, I offer my most sincere apology. I hope you all understand. If not, well I guess it's ok to hate me.

As for my cue, give it to Manny Perez. He's the son of 9ball, Hector Perez, an AZ member. The kid is an aspiring player and I have agreed to give him a cue, but wasn't fast enough to get it to him before his BEF tourney. He gave all of his saved up tourney winnings to Ashley Nandrasy so she could go compete in the WPBA Open next week. So i'd like for the cue to either go directly to him, or sell the cue in an auction or raffle & give 100% proceeds to him & i'll continue building his cue. Either is fine by me. That kid is deserving. Manny, hopefully you get to the big show :)

One last time, i'm sorry to anybody who feels affected. I hope I never offended anybody.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
To all who feel affected, I owe a giant apology. I built the 5th cue. I apologize mostly to the other cuemakers and hope they can understand my position & purpose.

Toward the end of the logistical planning, several of the builders "suddenly" decided they couldn't send cues. One even just quit communicating instead of offering a reason. This left Shawn standing with his pants down, showing his ass to the world. He had put in a ton of time & effort to make it happen, even giving several time extensions to the builders. I felt bad for him & I tried helping him in the only way I know how. I began looking for cuemakers. Only one cuemaker agreed, which was Wes Hunter, but he only agreed on the condition that I would as well. I was kind in a tough spot & chose the lesser of two evils. I would help Shawn, a friend, even if it meant taking some heat for it myself. Wes & I literally had days to build our cues & we each did the best we could given the time we had to prepare. I don't want to speak for Wes, but given as much time as the rest, i'm sure each of us could have provided something better for everybody. I thank him for helping me. It essencially was me asking a friend for help to help another friend. He wasn't happy about the short notice & only did so because I pulled the friend card on him. Thank you again, Wes.

Most regretably, I was supposed to stay out of it. I was only supposed to referee & assign numbers. I am very much sorry to everybody for getting involved. I did the duty I said i'd do and I did it with absolutely no bias. If anything, I tried to be sure my cue had no extra frills anywhere of any kind that would pursuade bias. I wanted to remain anonymous because I had nothing to gain nor lose. I didn't want anybody wanting to order a cue from me because they liked the tester, and me have to tell them no. That kinda defeats the purpose. So I thought it would be best to remain anonymous to avoid any hurt feelings or misled testers. As I see now, my fears of having to speak up have become apparent. I knew i'd take some heat, but it's worth it to me in trade for helping a friend. What i'm not ok with is Shawn taking heat for me. He never knew until testing was completed. He wasn't happy about me remaining anonymous & didn't see anything wrong with me building a cue, but honored my wishes. Him taking heat for this is why I am posting this now. He was simply covering my ass the way I tried covering his ass. It's what friends do. So again, I offer my most sincere apology. I hope you all understand. If not, well I guess it's ok to hate me.

As for my cue, give it to Manny Perez. He's the son of 9ball, Hector Perez, an AZ member. The kid is an aspiring player and I have agreed to give him a cue, but wasn't fast enough to get it to him before his BEF tourney. He gave all of his saved up tourney winnings to Ashley Nandrasy so she could go compete in the WPBA Open next week. So i'd like for the cue to either go directly to him, or sell the cue in an auction or raffle & give 100% proceeds to him & i'll continue building his cue. Either is fine by me. That kid is deserving. Manny, hopefully you get to the big show :)

One last time, i'm sorry to anybody who feels affected. I hope I never offended anybody.

All I can say is that when I grow up I want to be JUST LIKE YOU!!!!

You're a class act to the core of your burl filled heart!
 

zy112

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That is pretty dissappointing regarding Cue 5. However, I respect you keeping your word.

This was fun to follow, but got confusing as well, with all the reviews in different formats and such. I would suggest something standardized, maybe even an excel sheet to organize the data and make it more accessable, instead of having to sift through a huge thread. With that said, thanks for putting in the effort you did it was fun.

^^^Edit... I was minutes late^^^
 

poolcuemaster

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There ain't nothing like a real true friend and I hope Manny wins many tourneys with this cue gave to him as a friend.--Leonard
 
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