An interesting thing happened at pool last night

Dave38

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
I was at nineball league last nite and the guy I just played came up to me about 10 minutes after our match and handed me his cue butt and asked if I could fix it. He went to put his cue in his case, and accidently hit the cushion of a stool with the butt cap and it went flying off. It's a 3 year old production cue from a respected manufacturer that he bought thru a friend at a pool hall brand new, but never got a receipt. He didn't know about registering it for the lifetime warrentee so basically it isn't covered.
I'm really surprised how they put it together, just a 1/8" long tenon and some epoxy to hold the one part of a cue that gets the most abuse IMO. It could have been held on also by a weight bolt I guess, but it didn't have one when he bought it, as he wanted it to be lighter. To me, this is a poor design for a $250 cue, or any cue for that matter. It is a failure waiting to happen. I must say I'm a bit dissappointed as I thought the respected mass produced manufacturer made a better cue than that.

I have edited this post due to the Nasty PM I received from a Well Respected Cue Maker on this site that likes to stalk my every post. I have removed the name and logo. Hope this makes him happier.....
If I offended anyone with this thread, sorry. Only trying to show my dissappointment with what I had thought was a good product.Dave
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Dave that is wrong all the way about like the cue I recieved from a player at my homeroom that was from a local maker for a refinish and the ringwork and short buttcap were just superglued onto the rubber bumper and then the bumper ca'd into the butt to hold it all together. What a putz.--Leonard
 
> I would think that this cue had been tinkered with before this incident. McD's almost always have a weight bolt in there that would have prevented this. Tommy D.
 
Tommy-D said:
> I would think that this cue had been tinkered with before this incident. McD's almost always have a weight bolt in there that would have prevented this. Tommy D.
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He has had this cue since brandnew, the dealer took the weight bolt out to lighten it when he bought it. If every cue made by this maker is vulnerable like this as soon as the weight bolt is removed, as happens quite often, then to me it's a design flaw IMO. I think a better attachment method would be in order. Just my opinion.
There aren't even any dings or scratches on the rest of the butt. I have known him for a couple of years and see him and his cue about 4 times a session and have never seen him abuse it. I am cleaning the shaft and doing a new tip on it at the same time of this repair, and the shaft is also ding free after 3 years of use.
Dave
 
Maybe adding a short aluminum weight bolt would help make it more secure without adding a lot of weight during the repair?
 
Eight or nine years ago, I was given a McDermott as a gift. Before removing the 3-ounce weight bolt, I called McD. The guy told me it needs a weight bolt, and he sent me, free of charge, a very light aluminum bolt. Now I see why it needs it. (Of course, as it merely sits in the rack, it's pretty safe anyway.)
 
howiesatwork said:
Maybe adding a short aluminum weight bolt would help make it more secure without adding a lot of weight during the repair?
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Exactly. When a cue like this is made it's made to have a mechanical bond (the weight bolt) holding the butt piece on in addition to the adhesive. Otherwise they'd have used a longer tenon to give more gluing surface. You should never remove and leave the weight bolt out of a cue of this design. As Howie said, an aluminum weight bolt would have prevented this. The dealer who removed the weight bolt should be made to foot the bill for the repair. IMHO

Shem
 
cuesmith said:
The dealer who removed the weight bolt should be made to foot the bill for the repair. IMHO

Shem
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I totally agree, but doubt it will happen. I have dealt with a few people in the past that have had bad dealings with him and got no resolution from him. My buddy actually is considering making this into a breaker as it is still too heavy for his taste, even without a bolt. If he does that, I plan on using a phenolic rod to plug it with, then bore and tap for a bolt, and use a longer tenon for the cap.
On a side note, The finish is flaking and bubbled all around the edges were it broke, and looks to have 4 layers for a total thickness of .025". Is it common for them to have a .025" thick finish?
 
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Dave38 said:
He has had this cue since brandnew, the dealer took the weight bolt out to lighten it when he bought it. If every cue made by this maker is vulnerable like this as soon as the weight bolt is removed, as happens quite often, then to me it's a design flaw IMO. I think a better attachment method would be in order. Just my opinion.
There aren't even any dings or scratches on the rest of the butt. I have known him for a couple of years and see him and his cue about 4 times a session and have never seen him abuse it. I am cleaning the shaft and doing a new tip on it at the same time of this repair, and the shaft is also ding free after 3 years of use.
Dave
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Hi Dave
That's why they make nylon bolts, Look at all the cues out there with Delrin butt caps. Look at all the old Palmer cues where the butt sleeve sections are not glued at all, the weight bolt holds it all together. On the over all, accept and learn from it.
 
Hi David,

This is a very simple repair.
Prep the parts, re-assemble with epoxy and PUT A WEIGHT BOLT IN IT.
You don't have to re-engineer the weight-bolt system.
It would be counter-productive to what the client wants. He wants a lighter cue and you want to install a phenolic plug. Phenolic weighs more than wood. Don't create a monster for yourself.
The current tenon's length, while not ideal, is a mute point when the manufacturer's design is adhered to. IT NEEDS A WGHT. BOLT.

OK, so now your client wants to use this cue as a break-cue but he wants it lighter. Tell him to buy a lighter cue because it ain't gonna happen with this one. You can easily put this cue back together, as per the manufacturer's design and he'll have his game cue back. He obviously likes the cue as you state, he's taken very good care of it for 3 yrs. now since new.

As far as someone hounding you through PMs, put that individual on your 'ignore-list' and you'll never hear from them again.
"Well Respected Cue Maker on this site" or not, a dick is a dick.
The 'ignore' feature is there for a reason. Use it.
 
KJ Cues said:
Hi David,
This is a very simple repair.
Prep the parts, re-assemble with epoxy and PUT A WEIGHT BOLT IN IT.
Phenolic weighs more than wood. Don't create a monster for yourself.


Sound advise. K.I.S.S. this one goodbye.
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Dave38 said:
I have edited this post due to the Nasty PM I received from a Well Respected Cue Maker on this site that likes to stalk my every post. I have removed the name and logo. Hope this makes him happier.....
If I offended anyone with this thread, sorry. Only trying to show my dissappointment with what I had thought was a good product.Dave
View attachment 156454
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There seems to be a new attatude around here that anything critical said of another cue maker is unacceptable. I like it that way. This is ask the cue maker not bash the cue maker. The fact that the cue lasted 3 years without any internal support tells me the design must be better than it looks.

Larry
 
KJ Cues said:
Hi David,

This is a very simple repair.
Prep the parts, re-assemble with epoxy and PUT A WEIGHT BOLT IN IT.
You don't have to re-engineer the weight-bolt system.
It would be counter-productive to what the client wants. He wants a lighter cue and you want to install a phenolic plug. Phenolic weighs more than wood. Don't create a monster for yourself.
The current tenon's length, while not ideal, is a mute point when the manufacturer's design is adhered to. IT NEEDS A WGHT. BOLT.

OK, so now your client wants to use this cue as a break-cue but he wants it lighter. Tell him to buy a lighter cue because it ain't gonna happen with this one. You can easily put this cue back together, as per the manufacturer's design and he'll have his game cue back. He obviously likes the cue as you state, he's taken very good care of it for 3 yrs. now since new.

As far as someone hounding you through PMs, put that individual on your 'ignore-list' and you'll never hear from them again.
"Well Respected Cue Maker on this site" or not, a dick is a dick.
The 'ignore' feature is there for a reason. Use it.
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I stand corrected, I do see that if the bolt is still there it's fine. It seems to be a lack of info from the manufacterer/sellers more than the design itself.
I just searched their website and I cannot find anywhere on there about needing to replace the normal bolt with the 'dummy' one to maintain integrity. They do tell you how to remove/replace it yourself without any mention of the nesessity of a bolt being there. I called one of the local authorized sellers today and asked them about removing one they said sure, no problem. Then I asked if it needed to be replaced for any reason, they said no it was fine that way. I then asked if the warrentee would cover it if the bolt was removed and the cap broke off and needed to repair like this one needs. He said he wasn't sure and would have to find out.
How would someone find out about the bolt when even the manufacturer doesn't state it and the dealers don't seem to know? I think if it NEEDS to be there to hold it together, then the manufacturer should have a notice of such, somehow with the cue, or at least on their website, for the owner / seller to know and abid by it. Just my opinion of course. Unfortunatly, my buddy has just found out the hard way:(

Thanks KJ, but I guess I didn't put it properly. If he uses it for a breaker, he wants it to be heavier, therefore I was going to use the above method to reassemble. If he uses it as a shooter, he wanted it lighter. I told him it was better to buy a lighter cue to shoot with.
I also didn't realize that ignore blocked pms also, I thought it only blocked their posts. Thanks for the info.
 
63Kcode said:
There seems to be a new attatude around here that anything critical said of another cue maker is unacceptable. I like it that way. This is ask the cue maker not bash the cue maker. The fact that the cue lasted 3 years without any internal support tells me the design must be better than it looks.

Larry
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Larry,
Being critical of a cue maker or bashing is one thing, but I don't feel I was bashing. I was expressing my dissappointment and my friend's over what appeared to be a flawed design that my friend now has to pay for. I now see the flaw wasn't the design, but the lack of warning, if you will, about removing the bolt and not replacing it with a dummy one. I did err by originally putting the name of the mass production manufacturer, and for that I do apologize. Others post here with similar type failures/repairs so I didn't think it was a bad thing to do. I guess, by some peoples opinions, I was incorrect. I do wonder how one decides what is being unacceptably critical and what is acceptable questioning or acceptable opinions.....and still be able to share honest and open conversation? If this thread is considered too critical, then about 3/4 of all the posts on this site should be yanked. Just My opinion.
BTW, the cue lasted 3 years due to great care, otherwise that butt cap would have broken off in an 1/8 of the time under normal abuse that area gets. The logo is still undamaged on the bottom of the bumper, that's how good he took care of it.
I will be having my friend contact the manufacturer about this to see if they will fix it for free, as he didn't do anything to cause it himself, but I don't expect much.
Thanks,
Dave
 
Most production cue companies stipulate that the cue should be returned to them or to an authorized repair person. Just because someone decides to be a cue mechanic certainly doesn't make him one. In this case, a dealer wanting to sell a cue made what he thought was a simple repair. Turns out in doing so he changed the construction design of the cue. Do you really believe this is the manufacturers fault. Would it be Buick's fault if someone recommended that only one lug nut was sufficient but later your wheel fell off? Literally 100's of thousands if not millions of cues have been designed and sold with this exact same technique including Szamboti's, Balabushka, Joss, Viking, McDermott, Pechauer, Schon and many others. It is a time tested technique that has worked for more than 50 years. It is a good reason that repairs should only be made, even something as simple as a weight change, by a competent mechanic. Changing spark plugs in your automobile seems like a simple task, that is until you cross a thread.

Dick
 
rhncue said:
Most production cue companies stipulate that the cue should be returned to them or to an authorized repair person. Just because someone decides to be a cue mechanic certainly doesn't make him one. In this case, a dealer wanting to sell a cue made what he thought was a simple repair. Turns out in doing so he changed the construction design of the cue. Do you really believe this is the manufacturers fault. Would it be Buick's fault if someone recommended that only one lug nut was sufficient but later your wheel fell off? Literally 100's of thousands if not millions of cues have been designed and sold with this exact same technique including Szamboti's, Balabushka, Joss, Viking, McDermott, Pechauer, Schon and many others. It is a time tested technique that has worked for more than 50 years. It is a good reason that repairs should only be made, even something as simple as a weight change, by a competent mechanic. Changing spark plugs in your automobile seems like a simple task, that is until you cross a thread.

Dick
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Well said, Richard!
 
McDermott changed their weight bolt and bumper system a while ago. The old weight bolts were thinner and went deeper into the cue, it also left more meat in the walls of the butt cap area, and more strength. The only advantage to their new weight bold is thet it goes in and out faster. Of course it would not suprise me to find out thet the butt of the cue was slammed into the floor after a missed shot.
 
I replaced the butt capp on A Hueble, and it had not tenon at all glue and the weight bold was the only thing holding it od, old cue so lasted a long time before it was brought to me. Jim
 
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