Eliminating luck, US Open 9-Ball

JarnoV

JarnoV

JarnoV
Silver Member
Having watched couple of games from the US Open 9-ball, I've been kind of shocked to see how the rule for racking and breaking works. It's rack your own, but not a single word about making the 9-ball on the break? I've seen more than one break where the 9-ball goes straight into the corner pocket, which most probably means that the rack was loose behind the 9-ball. The opponent can of course inspect the rack, but no one's going to inspect every single rack of their opponent. Moreso if either is somewhat intimidated about about his/her opponent.

Now, I'm not saying anyone racks like this on purpose (though I've been accused of being a little bit naive on this topic, which I readily admit :-)) but whether or not it's intentional is irrelevant. Why not just have a rule that you should spot the 9-ball if it goes to either of the bottom corners? Why not just spot the 9-ball if it goes in any pocket?

Rack your own, no referee and not spotting the 9-ball on the break seems just incredibly catastrophic mix.

Among these top professionals, race to 11 is too short to begin with, never mind some player making three 9-balls on the break in a single match on top of that. It just seems shocking to see that professionals have to deal with this sort of luck as there are rules that could easily prevent it.
 
Last edited:
I do agree with you. 9 ball in on the break is basically all luck, given the fact that you break hard enough. For me 9 ball is a difficult game, but for pros, especially on well-conditioned and fast tables (without too small pockets), it really comes down to the battle of the break. On any given day an amateur who can run out an easy rack can stand a chance against top professionals if they can break well.

This is why I like watching 10 ball more. Doesn't take out the excitement, and involves a lot more difficult patterns when running the rack. And if im correct, you cant BS any balls in. I think its just a much better game to determine who is the better player.
 
Lol, I just realized you are from Tampere. I had a Finnish friend who I grew up with in Taiwan that lives there now.
 
Luxury said:
Bottom two pockets count in rack your own nine ball at the us open?
Click to expand...

All flukes count, in all pockets. It's rack your own, and you're only allowed to request a re-rack once per game.

The 9 ball was made 6 times on the snap during just 2 TV table matches (Archer's match, and Williams'). lol
 
Eliminating Luck, US Open 9-Ball

What REALLY seems strange to me is the WPA association rules for 10-ball require the 10 ball to be spotted when made on the break! On the 10-ball break, it is MUCH TOUGHER to make the money ball than in 9-ball. There should not be any reward for making any money ball on the break.


JarnoV said:
Having watched couple of games from the US Open 9-ball, I've been kind of shocked to see how the rule for racking and breaking works. It's rack your own, but not a single word about making the 9-ball on the break? I've seen more than one break where the 9-ball goes straight into the corner pocket, which most probably means that the rack was loose behind the 9-ball. The opponent can of course inspect the rack, but no one's going to inspect every single rack of their opponent. Moreso if either is somewhat intimidated about about his/her opponent.

Now, I'm not saying anyone racks like this on purpose (though I've been accused of being a little bit naive on this topic, which I readily admit :-)) but whether or not it's intentional is irrelevant. Why not just have a rule that you should spot the 9-ball if it goes to either of the bottom corners? Why not just spot the 9-ball if it goes in any pocket?

Rack your own, no referee and not spotting the 9-ball on the break seems just incredibly catastrophic mix.

Among these top professionals, race to 11 is too short to begin with, never mind some player making three 9-balls on the break in a single match on top of that. It just seems shocking to see that professionals have to deal with this sort of luck as there are rules that could easily prevent it.
Click to expand...
 
Luxury said:
Did you consider that a bit of luck is entertaining to the majority of paying customers?
Click to expand...
Have you considered that this "luck" you are referring to is really CHEATING?

Manipulating the rack to make the 9-ball is totally cheating and completely against the nature of how the rules were intended. Which, may I remind you, that this rack your own business all started because too many people were spending too much time checking eachother's racks and arguing all the time, and making eachother rack, and rerack, and rerack! It's all NONSENSE!
 
Luxury said:
Did you consider that a bit of luck is entertaining to the majority of paying customers?
Click to expand...

This is certainly the case. However, if the balls are manipulated so that the balls behind the 9 are not frozen to the nine, it stops being a bit of luck and instead either carelessness or outright cheating. The 9 goes in on a tight rack too. Just not that often, and it always gets kicked in. Remember when the Sardo rack was being used? There is a good match now on youtube when Bustamante makes the 9 against Reyes and they pay him $500 for it!!! Now that was exciting! (Especially for Francisco ha ha). The point is, I agree completely with the original poster. In rack your own 9 ball the 9 on the break should spot. At very least if you make it in the bottom 2 corners. Maybe they can leave it so you win if it goes in any of the other 4.

Just my $0.02.

KMRUNOUT
 
This was a good post by Paul Schofield in the other thread Smash-break = Slop
Paul Schofield said:
Soon, more than 200 players, the best players in the world, will show up in Chesapeake, VA. They will begin every game with a “SLOP” shot. A “smash-cut-break out of the box” ensures chaos and slop rather than skill. We are trying to define pool as a “sport” with this? Don’t kid yourselves. Open up any Nine or Ten-Ball video on youtube and see what actually goes on. It is unsafe and is 90% slop. Any skills you see in all this are skills we don’t need. All the breaking acrobatics is not pool. Pool has never looked so ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I think he's right, the answer to this whole thing is to remove the requirement to make a ball on the break, implement his random racking process (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H3FiUd-Wsk), and spot the money ball. You can see all of his proposed rule changes here...

http://www.goldcrownbilliardseriepa.com/noconflict.html

And before you guys all say... "Oh, you should just play 10 ball..." The same thing is happening there too. I saw SVB make 3 10-balls on the break in a race to 11 against somebody during a major tournament. It's rediculous.
 
Which players are cheating? Do you have evidence that the 9 on the break was premeditated?

A pretty strong accusation- blanket one at that- that you make...

I agree that it is possible to rig a rack, though I disagree with your OPINION.

Clark_the_Shark said:
Have you considered that this "luck" you are referring to is really CHEATING?

Manipulating the rack to make the 9-ball is totally cheating and completely against the nature of how the rules were intended. Which, may I remind you, that this rack your own business all started because too many people were spending too much time checking eachother's racks and arguing all the time, and making eachother rack, and rerack, and rerack! It's all NONSENSE!
Click to expand...
 
Just because it's impossible to prove, doesn't mean it isn't happening. That's why you take out the speculation, and enforce a random racking process, remove the ball on the break requirement, spot the money ball, and alternate breaks.
 
Clark_the_Shark said:
Have you considered that this "luck" you are referring to is really CHEATING?

Manipulating the rack to make the 9-ball is totally cheating and completely against the nature of how the rules were intended. Which, may I remind you, that this rack your own business all started because too many people were spending too much time checking eachother's racks and arguing all the time, and making eachother rack, and rerack, and rerack! It's all NONSENSE!
Click to expand...

Exactly. Honestly, I don't mind luck because simply, it's part of the game. As players thats something we accept when we take up this obsession. I just can't believe the US Open went to rack your own. Seems like if its made it to the Open that its definitely here to stay and might be the predominant format. Though I'm not blaming or accusing any players yet I feel this system is very flawed. If it hasn't happened yet, I would be positive that players would take advantage of this and rig some racks. If they are going to rack your own in 9 ball you MUST take away wins of the break IMO. This is an issue of cheating! Luck will happen no matter what the format but this just causes problems.
 
Clark_the_Shark said:
Just because it's impossible to prove, doesn't mean it isn't happening. That's why you take out the speculation, and enforce a random racking process, remove the ball on the break requirement, spot the money ball, and alternate breaks.
Click to expand...

We are not going to play by those rules. The luck factor and the ability to strongarm one's opponent are major attractions of 9b.

I would like to see more Total Offense Pool tourneys though...
http://www.topbilliard.net/aboutus.htm
 
I can see it now.

AZ forum members get the "The Longest Run and Most Prestigious 9-Ball Event in the world" to change the rules, just because these members (who have never played in the event and probably never even been to the event) don't like the current rules.

Making the 9 on the break by cheating. Rack adjustments. No win if the 9 ball goes in either of the two corner pockets behind the rack.

I can see it now.

An internet voting for each rule at any event. AZ memberts get 10 extra votes. That is because they are so wise to the way of the pros and tournaments that have been running for 35 years.

I cannot agree with you.. that would only make both of us wrong.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top