Is 30 Degrees (1/2 Ball) The Best Cut Angle for Position Play?

Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fargo 1000 on VP4
Silver Member
Cuts that are about 30 degrees (1/2 ball) offer many position play advantages:

  • A 30-degree cut gives a reasonably wide range of control over the CB's after-collision direction and speed.

  • If the CB/OB cut angle is anywhere near 30 degrees (1/2 ball), a rolling cue ball's path after collision will be at a predictable 30 degree angle from the CB's original direction.

  • The 30-degree CB path is easy to visualize accurately because it's about the same as the CB/OB cut angle (in the opposite direction).

  • A rolling CB and the OB will each travel about the same distance after a 1/2 ball collision.

  • If the CB is hit with good draw it's path after collision will be at a predictable 90 degrees from the CB's original direction.

For aiming purposes, a 30-degree cut is still close enough to straight in to be "easy", so given the above position-play advantages, is a 30-degree (1/2 ball) cut the optimum position target for most shots?

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Cuts that are about 30 degrees (1/2 ball) offer many position play advantages:

  • A 30-degree cut gives a reasonably wide range of control over the CB's after-collision direction and speed.

  • If the CB/OB cut angle is anywhere near 30 degrees (1/2 ball), a rolling cue ball's path after collision will be at a predictable 30 degree angle from the CB's original direction.

  • The 30-degree CB path is easy to visualize accurately because it's about the same as the CB/OB cut angle (in the opposite direction).

  • A rolling CB and the OB will each travel about the same distance after a 1/2 ball collision.

  • If the CB is hit with good draw it's path after collision will be at a predictable 90 degrees from the CB's original direction.

For aiming purposes, a 30-degree cut is still close enough to straight in to be "easy", so given the above position-play advantages, is a 30-degree (1/2 ball) cut the optimum position target for most shots?

pj
chgo
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Only if you're shooting the same shot over and over again, looking to place the cue ball in the same place over and over again....but as we all know...there are so many variables in pool...there is no one shot for all balls pocketed....so, why obsess over "1" shot in paticular...when seldom do any two shots come up the same. The shot that is the most important what I learned when I was playing pool...was the shot that made the ball go in!

Glen
 
realkingcobra:
Only if you're shooting the same shot over and over again, looking to place the cue ball in the same place over and over again...
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I think you're missing the point. A 30-degree cut angle gives you more position play options, not less. The 30-degree path a rolling CB takes and the 90-degree path a CB with draw takes are just two of those options that happen to be particularly easy to predict and replicate - "bonuses" if you will. But with different speeds and spin the 30-degree cut also offers many other position plays - this wide variety of position play options combined with the relative ease of the shot is why I suggest 1/2 ball might be the "optimal" cut angle.

pj
chgo
 
I understand what PJ is saying, but I don't think it's healthy to associate a particular angle as the "best" for position play because how often are you going to get that exact angle while playing? 1/2 ball hits aren't always the best for positioning.

If you're not worrying about your shot-making ability--- thinner cuts allow you to get more CB movement with less effort. So, depending on where your next shot is...1/2 ball might be the best, may not be the best--- who knows.

So, this is like asking if Miller Lite is the best beer to drink during a football game. Sure, it taste great and is less filling. However, if you're going into overtime -- it's always good to have some Amstel Light in the cooler. Not only does taste great, it's less filling AND they spell "light" correctly. Does that mean shit to the guy making the field goal with 2 seconds left to play....of course not. But it's fun to talk about, I guess.

Just to add: I think the optimal angle depends on the player's pocketing ability. It's likely the thinnest angle they're totally comfy with.
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
For aiming purposes, a 30-degree cut is still close enough to straight in to be "easy", so given the above position-play advantages, is a 30-degree (1/2 ball) cut the optimum position target for most shots?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

It would be a good "target" for most shots, although not always easy to accomplish.

Knowing how the cue ball reacts with a 30 degree cut helps when your angle is different.

Go to- http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/pool-dogma -question #14
 
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If you play zone position in rotation games the 1/2 ball hit is ideal for a wide range of shots that come up in a game. The "best cut angle" really depends on the position you need to move to the 2nd and 3rd ball in that particular run out.
 
Spidey:
I think the optimal angle depends on the player's pocketing ability. It's likely the thinnest angle they're totally comfy with.
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I don't think so. Thin angles are like straight in shots: extremes. Thin cut angles give the greatest CB speed after collision, but the least possible CB direction control. Almost straight shots give the widest range of CB directions but the smallest range of CB speeds. This is another reason that the 1/2 ball cut angle is a good compromise: it offers an optimal mix of good CB direction and speed control.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick, what did you do, just watch Mike Pages vids?

The 1/2 ball aim shows up about 60% of the time. A great shot to learn and understand.

Hal once told me: "If you don't know what to shoot, shoot a 1/2 ball. You will be correct over half the time."

Good post.....SPF=randyg
 
For position play, I would say you are probably correct.

However, the throw characteristics of a 30 degree cut can make it a bad proposition for long shots and banks.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Cuts that are about 30 degrees (1/2 ball) offer many position play advantages:

  • A 30-degree cut gives a reasonably wide range of control over the CB's after-collision direction and speed.

  • If the CB/OB cut angle is anywhere near 30 degrees (1/2 ball), a rolling cue ball's path after collision will be at a predictable 30 degree angle from the CB's original direction.

  • The 30-degree CB path is easy to visualize accurately because it's about the same as the CB/OB cut angle (in the opposite direction).

  • A rolling CB and the OB will each travel about the same distance after a 1/2 ball collision.

  • If the CB is hit with good draw it's path after collision will be at a predictable 90 degrees from the CB's original direction.

For aiming purposes, a 30-degree cut is still close enough to straight in to be "easy", so given the above position-play advantages, is a 30-degree (1/2 ball) cut the optimum position target for most shots?

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

In my opinion, it's the "rule of thumb default position play" for corner pocket shots. You can do so much with it. There's less of a chance of coming up straight-in than with smaller angles, and less of a chance of missing the shot altogether with larger angles, plus you can usually get anywhere on the table with this relatively mild angle. You can hit it with speed for travel, or gently bounce off the rail for soft shots. You can play all different side spins. The path of the cue ball is easy to manipulate with draw, follow, side, and speed.

In fact, when I have trouble with a table, it's usually because I haven't adjusted to the speed and don't end up with enough 30 degree angles.

On shots where I am playing straight follow or draw, or on side pocket shots, I usually use less or no angle.

When I'm playing someone and see them come up with this angle shot after shot on the right side of the ball, I know I've got a match.

Chris
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
I think you're missing the point. A 30-degree cut angle gives you more position play options, not less. The 30-degree path a rolling CB takes and the 90-degree path a CB with draw takes are just two of those options that happen to be particularly easy to predict and replicate - "bonuses" if you will. But with different speeds and spin the 30-degree cut also offers many other position plays - this wide variety of position play options combined with the relative ease of the shot is why I suggest 1/2 ball might be the "optimal" cut angle.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

I think you're kind of missing my point. When I learned how to play 9ball, I also learned to leave at least some kind of an angle on every shot, preferably an angle that would lead the cue ball into a rail, that way you could play the cue ball not only across the table...but also around the table giving you a full range of position for the next shot, whereas the straighter in the shot...the less position choices. Never did I learn to try and always shoot for 1/2 ball on the next position play. The key to playing rotation type of games...is to always have some kind of an angle to work with to give you the ability to move the cue ball around...and it gets better if that angle gives you a rail to play off of as well...that was my point;)

Glen
 
Somewhere or someone (probably Hal if it was someone) once told me that the 1/2 ball hit/cut shot (30 degrees) is called the "Golden Angle". I'm wondering if anyone else has ever heard of this. Hal may have said that he heard Ralph Greenleaf call this shot by that name. Maybe someone else can confirm this or not.

Patrick, as usual is correct about the benefits to the half ball hit.

I'm not sure if he or anyone else mentioned that it is also the EASIEST shot to shoot because of the well defined edge of the object ball, unless you are using CTE/Pro One then all shots are easy. :D:D:D Ok, when I'm joking really well, I will use three big grins. Not trying to hijack the thread. For those who don't know what a half ball hit/shot is: YOu simply aim through the center of the cue ball and aim the center of your tip at the edge of the object ball.
 
the only shot that is more ideal for position than the half ball hit is the full ball hit, or stop shot. half ball hit is the next best thing too stop, stop, stop for position. The key is that you can more often than not travel were you need too with the cue ball while still pocketing the ball at a very pocket accepting speed.
 
Patrick

do you have any links to where i can watch you play.maybe some vids of your last tournament.

bill
 
randyg said:
Patrick, what did you do, just watch Mike Pages vids?
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Yep :). They were the inspiration for this thread.

The 1/2 ball aim shows up about 60% of the time.
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Well, at risk of opening a can of worms here...

If you're using a "reference" aiming system like 3-Angles, SAM, CTE, etc., than the 1/2 ball alignment, which is right in the middle of all cut angles, is understandably the "reference aim" for lots of shots on either side of it (fuller and thinner). But it isn't the exact aim needed for that many.

pj
chgo
 
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vasilios said:
Patrick

do you have any links to where i can watch you play.maybe some vids of your last tournament.

bill
Click to expand...
Nope, nothing like that exists.

If you're wondering how well I play, the answer is not all that well - maybe a solid B. I know lots more than I can do.

pj
chgo
 
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