Points for Master of the Table?

12squared

12squared

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Can someone please post the point breakdown for each of the 3 DCC tournaments to end the contravercy? Shane won, Alex 2nd, but it is not clear how the points get awarded. PLEASE! This cannot be that difficult to post and we will all then understand. I believe not all tournaments are awarded points equally, but it is my assumption only.

Banks
1-Pocket
8-ball

Thanks,

Dave
 
I saw there was a thread on this subject already, but nobody can give details on how the points are earned. One poster said that all tournaments were treated equally - if that is the case, please give us the points/finishing position and we can do the math.

Why is this a secret?

Dave
 
I think the way that it is calculated is take the finish place in the event for all 3 tournaments and add them together. The one with the lowest score wins. There may be some multiplier or bonus for each place depending on game but not sure.
 
I'm sure that,when someone answers the question about the point system, you will find that the points are based on the number of entries into the tournament. As banks is not nearly as large of a tournament as one pocket, the one pocket points would be much larger than the banks. And since 9-ball probably doubles one pocket in terms of entries, well, you can see where all of the points come from.

The same thing could not be accomplished if SVB had done poorly in 9 Ball and taken 2nd in banks.

I'm not sure how the point system works exactly (at DCC), but I assure you that points from each tournament will be based on the entries as well as your place in the tournament.

Everyone is entitled to think poorly of the point system or love it. The fact is that the point system was in place before the week started. They were all playing under the same system, and had Alex done just a little better Shane would not have been the winner...but he didn't.

Great job to both Shane and Alex.

**Edit: Clearly outlined below is the explanation of points. I stand corrected, they do not base points on the number of entries at all.
 
Last edited:
TheBook said:
I think the way that it is calculated is take the finish place in the event for all 3 tournaments and add them together. The one with the lowest score wins. There may be some multiplier or bonus for each place depending on game but not sure.
Click to expand...

If it was lowest point total Alex would have won since Alex's 1,3, 9 would have been lower than SVB's 1,2, 2andout. If I remember that thread correctly, the 3 games are equal in points but the points are top heavy. Essentially, there is a bigger difference between 2nd and 3rd than there is between 9th and zilch.

If that's the case, and 9th place doesn't get many points, that would explain it. I suppose, if the points are indeed top heavy, it is probably so that whoever wins the MOTT will at least have placed very high or won one of the 3 events rather than have the MOTT awarded to someone who places say 5th in all three events.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
If it was lowest point total Alex would have won since Alex's 1,3, 9 would have been lower than SVB's 1,2, 2andout. If I remember that thread correctly, the 3 games are equal in points but the points are top heavy. Essentially, there is a bigger difference between 2nd and 3rd than there is between 9th and zilch.

If that's the case, and 9th place doesn't get many points, that would explain it. I suppose, if the points are indeed top heavy, it is probably so that whoever wins the MOTT will at least have placed very high or won one of the 3 events rather than have the MOTT awarded to someone who places say 5th in all three events.
Click to expand...

I understand and agree that u need to try and get winners into the running for the title. The problem being that, it seems silly that you can be called master of the table for that year and not win a single match in a particular division.

I'm a huge Shane fan, but I feel that Alex got robbed.
 
Cameron Smith said:
I understand and agree that u need to try and get winners into the running for the title. The problem being that, it seems silly that you can be called master of the table for that year and not win a single match in a particular division.

I'm a huge Shane fan, but I feel that Alex got robbed.
Click to expand...

You make a valid point about going 2 and out in any event. But on the other hand, can you say that a player who took a 1st and 2nd in two of the events shouldn't even be considered regardless of how they did in the third discipline? At some juncture there may be weaknesses to any mathematical points system but for sure if there was any judging or voting for the award there would be questions about it too.

It does seem that the points system could stand a little tweaking. Perhaps some sort of two stage system, whereby there would be a first cut, then the winner (based on some point system) declared from those still in the running. Something along the lines of A) Anyone who finishes 1st or 2nd in ANY event or has a top 5 in two of the events, or B) Has a top 10 finish in all 3 events are eligible. Then apply some point system based on their finishes in all the events (not quite so top heavy). That way anyone who goes 2 and out in any event is not eligible UNLESS they finished 1st or 2nd in one of the others or top 5 in two of them.

I'm sure there will be a gajillion ideas on how it can be changed. And even with the concept I just posted there are probably infinite permutations.
 
Last edited:
DukeOfAim said:
I'm sure that,when someone answers the question about the point system, you will find that the points are based on the number of entries into the tournament. As banks is not nearly as large of a tournament as one pocket, the one pocket points would be much larger than the banks. And since 9-ball probably doubles one pocket in terms of entries, well, you can see where all of the points come from.

This is backwards sir, The bank tourn. draws way more then the other 2 mainly b/c if you enter the banks you get free entry into the tournament room all week to watch, then 1 pocket gets a little less then banks and 9 ball gets the least amount of players.
Click to expand...
 
gwk9ball said:
DukeOfAim said:
I'm sure that,when someone answers the question about the point system, you will find that the points are based on the number of entries into the tournament. As banks is not nearly as large of a tournament as one pocket, the one pocket points would be much larger than the banks. And since 9-ball probably doubles one pocket in terms of entries, well, you can see where all of the points come from.

This is backwards sir, The bank tourn. draws way more then the other 2 mainly b/c if you enter the banks you get free entry into the tournament room all week to watch, then 1 pocket gets a little less then banks and 9 ball gets the least amount of players.
Click to expand...
I believe they told me that the Banks tournament had 387 entries, while the 1P had something like 257. I don't know what the 9-ball drew.

The players got their just desserts based upon the DCC point system. However, I can tell you that Pagulayan was very fortunate to have won the bank pool event. Brumback destroyed him 3-0 in the 3rd match before the end. At it's conclusion Alex even got down on his knees and bowed to Brumback.

Those final 3 or 4 matches should have been played on Tuesday, like they always have been in the past. Instead the DCC insisted that the bank tournament be completed on that Monday night.

So a very fatigued Brumback had to come back and play Alcano at 1:30 A.M. to see who would play Alex in the finals. Every time I looked over at Brumback, his eyes were doing that long slow blinking and drooping. He missed shots against Alcano that are usually hangers for him. John must be in his late 40's, while the other two are probably still in their 20's.

I hope next year they go back to scheduling the final few banks matches on Tuesday, instead of insisting that these top players finish in the middle of the night.

Doc
Click to expand...
 
DCC Point System

I am not going to post the DCC Master of the Table Calculation in its entirety. It is a long table that is embedded in our Sequel Server Database. Points are awarded to the first 64 players. Each event is equal. The number of players per event has nothing to do with the points awarded.

First place is 120, 2nd is 100, 3rd is 80, 4th is 60 points, 5th is 50, 6th is 50, 7th is 40, 8th is 40, 9th is 30, 10th is 30, 11th is 30, 12th is 30, 13th is 29 points. Alex Pagulayan won the Bank Pool for 120 points. He was tied for 3rd and fourth and he was awarded 70 points (80+60 divided by 2) in the One Pocket. So, entering the Nine Ball Alex needed 50 points to reach 240. Then the best SVB could do is win the Nine Ball to tie Alex at 240 points. However, Alex was eliminated tied 9th through 13th in the 9th round. This earned him 29.8 points (30+30+30+30+29 divided by 5 equals 29.8). Each player that goes out in the same round get the total number of points available divided by the number of players that were eliminated in that round.

Shane's points were simple to calculate: 1st One Pocket 120 pts and 2nd Nine Ball for 100 pts, total 220 pts. This resulted in a very close race that was decided by 0.2 points. SVB went out in the 12th round, so he advanced 3 more rounds than Alex.

In order for you to do the calculation, you need to know how many players were eliminated in which round to calculate their Master of the Table points and you need the complete table. It is probably better to let the DCC computer do that calculation. Every time that I have been asked to check the accuracy of this calculation it has been verified as 100% accurate.

In my opinion there was no controversy regarding the Master of the Table. The tournament is hosted by Diamond Billiard Products and we reserve the right to determine how the Master of the Table is calculated. It is a fair system that we have used since we started the Master of the Table.

Also, in response to the comment about the Bank Tournament going so late on Monday night, this was the first year that we modified the DCC tournament software. The new software permitted us to give players a scheduled match time. This resulted in a much improved tournament for the most part. In the case of the bank pool, we had three players go deep into the tournament undefeated. This resulted in 14 rounds instead of the 12 that we planned on.
On Tuesday, we had Fatboy 10 challenge matches and one pocket matches to be played by the same players that went so far in the bank pool. So, we made the decision to finish the bank to prevent a larger problem later in the tournament.

Logistically, starting the One Pocket tournament while we are finishing the Bank Pool is the most difficult part of our tournament. The One Pocket matches can sometimes take a long time which really backs up the tournament. So, we must be careful not to put any delays into the One Pocket tournament.


Paul E Smith
Diamond Billiard Products
DCC Senior Tournament Director
 
Thanks for the explanation, Paul. Actually, the points system doesn't appear so top heavy as had been suggested earlier.
 
I think John was practicing for that late match during the previous nights. it appeared as if he was trying to get into a match in the TAR room and didn't he enter that late ring game?

If those late matches affect the players then why is it they stay up all night playing those high stake games?

JF made a remark during the Music City Tournament about not understanding players that stay up all night gambling during a tournament when they should be in bed resting. He mentioned one player that does not do the late night gambling. He goes to bed early to get the rest required. He said that he wins or places high in the tournaments and gets sponsors because of his results.
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
Thanks for the explanation, Paul. Actually, the points system doesn't appear so top heavy as had been suggested earlier.
Click to expand...

By top heavy, I didn't mean the 10th player gets 2 points. I do consider the difference in first and fifth being 70 points as top heavy. To overcome 70 points you pretty much have to win another division. That's what I meant by top heavy. Thanks Paul for further defining what I tried to earlier.
 
if all the points are equal for the diff events then why add the silly math to it by fabricating a points system instead of just using their placings?


we did it simple in cross country running..........

1st-1
2-2
3-3
4-4
and so on

your all thinking well No Sh8T grey like we didn't think about something so simple

BUT WAIT YOU GOT AHEAD OF ME...........


I'm pretty sure the reason they use that complicated algorithm is because of the TIES in pool.......which i've always thought were stupid
20th - 26th place? Its just goofey in a way.........but that has to be the reasoning behind how they do it, if i was a betting man which i am I'm sure there has got to be at least one smart person in the DCC/Diamond group that figured this as I did.

Because if they didn't then you would have all kinds of BS going on with many many more people in the mix and then we might as well just do it chopper build off style and vote into a ballot box lmfao what a joke that would be

I know I know..........ALEX did Place BETTER and we can not debate that by any means but there has to be a system and once you make a system you work the system.........if we can better the system then lets do it but dont come on here talking all that garbage that alex should have won because he didn't.........just like I told earl in an argument about the vikings v/s saints last year......SHOULDA WOULDA COULDA he didn't make it happen. If a change is warranted then make it but don't change nothing just because some golden boy "almost" got their and its tugging at your heart lol.

Math is great............and if you don't know now you do lol

-Grey Ghost-
 
Last edited:
Paul8ball said:
I am not going to post the DCC Master of the Table Calculation in its entirety. It is a long table that is embedded in our Sequel Server Database. Points are awarded to the first 64 players. Each event is equal. The number of players per event has nothing to do with the points awarded.

First place is 120, 2nd is 100, 3rd is 80, 4th is 60 points, 5th is 50, 6th is 50, 7th is 40, 8th is 40, 9th is 30, 10th is 30, 11th is 30, 12th is 30, 13th is 29 points. Alex Pagulayan won the Bank Pool for 120 points. He was tied for 3rd and fourth and he was awarded 70 points (80+60 divided by 2) in the One Pocket. So, entering the Nine Ball Alex needed 50 points to reach 240. Then the best SVB could do is win the Nine Ball to tie Alex at 240 points. However, Alex was eliminated tied 9th through 13th in the 9th round. This earned him 29.8 points (30+30+30+30+29 divided by 5 equals 29.8). Each player that goes out in the same round get the total number of points available divided by the number of players that were eliminated in that round.

Shane's points were simple to calculate: 1st One Pocket 120 pts and 2nd Nine Ball for 100 pts, total 220 pts. This resulted in a very close race that was decided by 0.2 points. SVB went out in the 12th round, so he advanced 3 more rounds than Alex.

In order for you to do the calculation, you need to know how many players were eliminated in which round to calculate their Master of the Table points and you need the complete table. It is probably better to let the DCC computer do that calculation. Every time that I have been asked to check the accuracy of this calculation it has been verified as 100% accurate.

In my opinion there was no controversy regarding the Master of the Table. The tournament is hosted by Diamond Billiard Products and we reserve the right to determine how the Master of the Table is calculated. It is a fair system that we have used since we started the Master of the Table.

Also, in response to the comment about the Bank Tournament going so late on Monday night, this was the first year that we modified the DCC tournament software. The new software permitted us to give players a scheduled match time. This resulted in a much improved tournament for the most part. In the case of the bank pool, we had three players go deep into the tournament undefeated. This resulted in 14 rounds instead of the 12 that we planned on.
On Tuesday, we had Fatboy 10 challenge matches and one pocket matches to be played by the same players that went so far in the bank pool. So, we made the decision to finish the bank to prevent a larger problem later in the tournament.

Logistically, starting the One Pocket tournament while we are finishing the Bank Pool is the most difficult part of our tournament. The One Pocket matches can sometimes take a long time which really backs up the tournament. So, we must be careful not to put any delays into the One Pocket tournament.


Paul E Smith
Diamond Billiard Products
DCC Senior Tournament Director
Click to expand...

Thank you, Paul. We can now get some sleep...finally :). Congratulations to Shane & Alex for a great week of play.

Dave
 
TheBook said:
I think John was practicing for that late match during the previous nights. it appeared as if he was trying to get into a match in the TAR room and didn't he enter that late ring game?

If those late matches affect the players then why is it they stay up all night playing those high stake games?

JF made a remark during the Music City Tournament about not understanding players that stay up all night gambling during a tournament when they should be in bed resting. He mentioned one player that does not do the late night gambling. He goes to bed early to get the rest required. He said that he wins or places high in the tournaments and gets sponsors because of his results.
Click to expand...

Hello Sir. Excuse me but I must try to defend myself from your bull shit. Excuse me again but the only time I tried to get a game was when I knew I had the time. One more,the ring game Is on friday nite. One more,and listen very carefully....they have NEVER ran the banks tourny late into the nite like they did.Oh and by the way since you seem to be one of those pool detectives, I never did get that game.Yep,you hit a nerve with me.It's bullshit like this why I'll not be coming here very often.Thanks alot
SIR JOHN BRUMBACK
 
JBKY said:
Hello Sir. Excuse me but I must try to defend myself from your bull shit. Excuse me again but the only time I tried to get a game was when I knew I had the time. One more,the ring game Is on friday nite. One more,and listen very carefully....they have NEVER ran the banks tourny late into the nite like they did.Oh and by the way since you seem to be one of those pool detectives, I never did get that game.Yep,you hit a nerve with me.It's bullshit like this why I'll not be coming here very often.Thanks alot
SIR JOHN BRUMBACK
Click to expand...

Don't let a know-it-all (or even a few of 'em) get to ya bud. This place is better if you choose to participate. There are many posters that would never be missed if they left and never returned, I am quite sure you aren't in that group.
 
Ktown D said:
Don't let a know-it-all (or even a few of 'em) get to ya bud. This place is better if you choose to participate. There are many posters that would never be missed if they left and never returned, I am quite sure you aren't in that group.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ktown,Oh and I stiil have your lighter.Where should I send It.lol
 
JBKY said:
Hello Sir. Excuse me but I must try to defend myself from your bull shit. Excuse me again but the only time I tried to get a game was when I knew I had the time. One more,the ring game Is on friday nite. One more,and listen very carefully....they have NEVER ran the banks tourny late into the nite like they did.Oh and by the way since you seem to be one of those pool detectives, I never did get that game.Yep,you hit a nerve with me.It's bullshit like this why I'll not be coming here very often.Thanks alot
SIR JOHN BRUMBACK
Click to expand...

John watch out for forum fools, they second guess and lump people into groups without knowing at all what they are talking about. Then they tell the best players what they should have done and it never stops. Don't let them get you down bud. As to running the banks tourney late into the night I believe it was pure crazy if they want the best play out of the players. I hope they keep tweaking the software and do not have this happen in the future. I think they could do this easily if they are willing to finish the banks on Tuesday which makes sense or even finish by Wed. Just pushing it through on Monday does not help those late round bank players do well in the one pocket on Tuesday. So hang out a little ignore the trolls your presence is definitely appreciated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top