Black boar cues
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RADAR
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Black boar cues - 02-15-2011, 08:59 AM

How many cues does Tony build a year? Anybody know? Is his cues the best return for the dollar down the road currently on the market? Jump in those cue thoughts guys!
  
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9BallKing
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Answer - 02-15-2011, 09:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RADAR View Post
How many cues does Tony build a year? Anybody know? Is his cues the best return for the dollar down the road currently on the market? Jump in those cue thoughts guys!
http://www.blackboarcustomcues.com/g...?CTID=235&IID=

Theres your answer and contact info

A huge return in the future, best???? But one of the best! BB Boti searing all up! IMHO ill like tonys method better, he could make some huge list booked till he dies and charge cheaper prices and let people charge 3times the amount, instead he makes a limited amount of cues per year, lets people have a fair shot to get one if u got the $ and collects the money himself. Much better atleast i know a third party didnt rape me cause of the wait and if i can afford it i can get a cue directly from the maker himself the way i want it! Just my opinion and i stick to it no offense to others but its how i feel


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TommyT
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02-15-2011, 09:56 AM

Just make the call and talk with Tony. If you are interested in a BB, just order one and figure out how to pay for it later. You only live once, enjoy your time here.

TommyT


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mia
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02-15-2011, 10:21 AM

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Originally Posted by RADAR View Post
Is his cues the best return for the dollar down the road currently on the market?
I wouldn't say that. Not by a long shot.
  
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or1pkt
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02-15-2011, 10:54 AM

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Originally Posted by mia View Post
I wouldn't say that. Not by a long shot.
i agree...especially considering most BB cues are a 5 digit investment...is your gonna invest that much money and want a return of any signifigance i wouldnt invest in a pool cue...jmo
  
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alpine9430
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02-15-2011, 12:23 PM

Without a doubt, Tony is a great cue maker who may one day be inducted into the Cue Makers Hall of Fame. His cues command a collection of 'C' Notes and those who have owned one know why that is true. But the difficulty is in trying to gauge the value of a high priced cue to those buyers on the secondary market. It is difficult to say how well it will retain it's value without knowing a design and how appealing it will be to a potential buyer.

You have been asking this question for a few months and appear to be levitating toward the BB. Make the investment for the joy of owning a Black Boar cue, the pleasure of playing with an excellent instrument and let the market settle where it may. One thing for sure, a BB will not loose over 50% of it's value as others have in the spiraling market.

But if you want an investment, look at something other than cues as futures are always uncertain with things that may be a hobby.

Good Luck in Your Decision...
  
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Actually...
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paulybatz
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Actually... - 02-15-2011, 12:46 PM

Go to a swap meet like VF or the Derby or Vegas and try the cues out...I have played with three BB cues and they just did not do it for me, at the time I played a 10K BB and a 1K Skip Weston, and liked the skip much more, and that VF ended up buying a Gilbert...so dont buy a name, play with them and buy what feels right to you. And if you are going to spend a lot of money, buy the cue direct from the maker, if you dont like it you can always work it out with them to tweak the cue for you! Buy a cue to play with, to improve your game...Dont buy cues as an investment, buy a Roth IRA for that!


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Wrong Forum Choice here
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Wrong Forum Choice here - 02-15-2011, 01:46 PM

You are not showing us a cue. Please notify a mod and have this thread moved to a main forum.
Thank you,
Nick
  
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02-15-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by or1pkt View Post
i agree...especially considering most BB cues are a 5 digit investment...is your gonna invest that much money and want a return of any signifigance i wouldnt invest in a pool cue...jmo
You got it. And considering how small the cue market is as a whole and how much smaller the Black Boar market is, you'd get a MUCH bigger return on a five figure cue from someone like Searing, Manzino, Szamboti, Showman, Gutierrez, etc.. You're more likely to take a loss on a BB than profit. Those who love them buy them from Tony. Those who buy cues on the second hand market are buying other cues.

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02-15-2011, 04:13 PM

not very many, he also dosent work at home and has a big nut to crack every month on rent, power etc. Tony builds one cue at a time start to finish, he builds batches of blanks to a certain point, then from there ist one cue at a time to be exact. Unless you have played with anything he has built in the past 5 years, you cant compair the cues that are moe than 5 or 6 years old, he redesigned everything about 5 or 6 years ago.

They are worth the $$$(if you have the $$), Someone has to be the most expensive-bit there are reasons why, Tony aint getting rich. I know the numbers but will not put his private biz in the street. Its a real low number and lots of overhead. From a business standpoint its a horrible biz-Tony has told me so and I can see it. For him its a passion to build the best hitting cues possible. I'll explaine a few reasons why.

He dosent asseble his cues like most other cue makers with a bolt at the A joint, its one piece of wood from the joint to the bumper which makes for a different hit. One other thing he does is the Ivory over SS joints, that isnt for looks like most people think, its a way to regulate the weight at the joint. He has 4 different set-ups that look about the same, but each one weighs a different amount, because SS is heavier than ivory he uses more ivory on the lightest one and more SS on the heaviest one. By having 4 different weights he controls the weight where he wants it in the cue. He has a few other tricks to add/reduce weight in the middle of the cue and like most cue makers in the bottom of the cue with a weight bolt. Being able to add or reduce weight in different parts of the cue has a big impact on the hit of a cue. There are billiard cues(3 cushion cues from Italy) with weight bolts that have weights on them that slide up and down in the back 16/- inches of the cue, so the player can dial in the weight where he wants it to be as well as how much weight he wants. So you see things can get complicated real fast, my cue weighs 19 oz but plays like it weighs 20.5oz just because of where the weight is distibuted-its just not the balance point. When you measure the balance cue that is not moving thats different than a cue in motion. i'm not a physics guy and dont have all the right words Tony does. I just know it makes a big difference where the weight is at, its as important as how much a cue weighs. total weight and weight distributation-how many threads do you see on that on AZB? Its just not how much a cue weighs, but what it weighs and where on the cue that weight is located at that effects the hit of a cue, Tony can regulate that, so can other cue makers but I like Tonys way the best. The Italian 3C cues have the best system of all for weight and weight distribution.

The decorations or art or inlays what ever you want to call it, is where he makes his $$$ and it aint a ton. For the hours he works Tony should be making more $$$-but its hard to sell cues for more than $20,000. He built one for me last year that was lots more than $20,000, but it took 5 months and 2 weeks, he did manage to get a simple cue done during that time as well, because Donnie was doing the inlays it freed up some of Tonys time. He just isnt set up to be a high out put shop. Point is Tony lives life like he wants to and building cues the way he wants to, he has his following. Like he said "If I could figure out how to build cues that play good as mine for less money, I would" and if that was possible he would make a ton more $$$. He has humidifiers and dehumidifiers to keep the wood perfect in his shop for years before its used, i seen it myself. Just the time he puts into managing his wood is a full time job. "Trying to make something perfect with imperfect materials is a *****" is another thing he says now and then, and he is right. Wood, ivory move as they age, and with atmospheric conditions. He is a scientist/cue maker, he aint full of shit. Tony is the real deal. He credits Gus with teaching him the most. And also says Gus was the all time best cue maker, which I agree with too.

The people who pay that much for cues dont care about ROI, They like Boars and how they play. I play with a $22,000 everyday for the past 2 years(except the last 3 months I took off playing). Lots of champions have used my cue and they all love it, havent seen a champion yet say anything negative bout the hit of it, and I try and provoke them into saying something negative about it, they like it and are not just being polite. Even Henneessee who dosent like anything liked it .

If I move to a 3rd world country I'm gonna paint mine(daily player) solid matte black so nobody will notice it, I'm dead serious-Tony and I have discussed how were gonna do it, its way to flashy to play with in the PI for example. Since I play mostly at home it dosent matter, but I dont like the attention it draws at a pool room.

Thats the Black Boar thing as I know it. And might help people understand why BB's cost what they cost. If Tony was getting rich there would be other cue makers copying his style, Vollmer is the only one I know of.

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? - 02-15-2011, 05:47 PM

Ive owned two BB's, a 4pt & his new player,Ya know the only people that complained about them said," Thats weird","Hits weird"! I say well does it feel good you like the hit? They said," yes but its weird it will take sometime to get use to","im not use to that"!

Well sad to say most that did that will never get to have more time with one of Tonys Cues. Its evident most people arent use to how good a cue should actually play when designed with such detail & precision, its not that they hit bad.

Ill be first one to say i picked up a black boar for the first time and couldnt make shots i normally made with my cochran or scruggs, but i said damn these things hit. But rather than keep getting flustered i gave it time, made some more visits & bam i hit with the cue i own now and we were married! his cues play like god. Best cues ive ever had the pleasure to own and play with. Tony & donnie are very gifted and i love having the opportunity to visit them. My girlfriend gets crazy on me when i go there cause she knows ill stay there for days! The shop is like a Museume of history, knowledge, Skill,craftsmanship, and art!



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02-15-2011, 06:13 PM

I have played several hours with Eric's (FatBoy) Black Boar cue and I am truely confident it is in the top 5 all time best hitting cues I have ever used. I have owned and played with over 100 cues and other than a few new cue makers I have tried just about everything out there including several Searings, 4 Showmans, 2 Mobleys, many Tascarella's, South West's, 5 Gina's, 3 Sugartree's, 2 Hercek's, 2 Kersenbock's, 5 Bluegrass cues and many many others.

Black Boars are definitely the real deal.
-don
  
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02-16-2011, 10:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Thecoats View Post
I have played several hours with Eric's (FatBoy) Black Boar cue and I am truely confident it is in the top 5 all time best hitting cues I have ever used. I have owned and played with over 100 cues and other than a few new cue makers I have tried just about everything out there including several Searings, 4 Showmans, 2 Mobleys, many Tascarella's, South West's, 5 Gina's, 3 Sugartree's, 2 Hercek's, 2 Kersenbock's, 5 Bluegrass cues and many many others.

Black Boars are definitely the real deal.
-don
I let almost all good players use my cue for 30-60 minutes sometimes longer/less depends on the situation, the list of players who have used it is long and are the top players in the world currently, everyone on the M-cup USA and some of the Euro's(they are great guys-except for 4 days a year during the M-cup we dont talk) And other top players, everyone has the same opinion of it-they like it. Cotton says "Its the best hitting cue ever," I think Max said the same. I have heard that so many times I cant remember. I dont need their validation to make me think its a good cue, I played long enough with enough cues to have my own opinion and its the same as theirs. Even Mr. Predator Charlie Williams even likes it.

I'm a Szam guy and I played with a Barry then a Gus when the tips went bad on it I tried the Boar(I got it to flip it, I never planned on using it) and it brought the best out of me, I know the cue dosent make the player, but in my case the wrong cue makes me play worse, I wish I had the talent of Bugs who played off the wall and was a champion. but I'm not, if I dont have a cue I can play with-I cant adjust to it. Boars just bring out the best in me.

I will awalys be a Szam guy, Gus is my hero, even tho he will get pissed at me for saying this, I think Barry has passed up his dad in his cue making and I'm not talking about inlay work. The Szamboti family to me are the kings of cue making. I did take out my rosewood GSB the other night and it plays good as the Boar.
  
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alpine9430
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02-16-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatboy View Post
I let almost all good players use my cue for 30-60 minutes sometimes longer/less depends on the situation, the list of players who have used it is long and are the top players in the world currently, everyone on the M-cup USA and some of the Euro's(they are great guys-except for 4 days a year during the M-cup we dont talk) And other top players, everyone has the same opinion of it-they like it. Cotton says "Its the best hitting cue ever," I think Max said the same. I have heard that so many times I cant remember. I dont need their validation to make me think its a good cue, I played long enough with enough cues to have my own opinion and its the same as theirs. Even Mr. Predator Charlie Williams even likes it.

I'm a Szam guy and I played with a Barry then a Gus when the tips went bad on it I tried the Boar(I got it to flip it, I never planned on using it) and it brought the best out of me, I know the cue dosent make the player, but in my case the wrong cue makes me play worse, I wish I had the talent of Bugs who played off the wall and was a champion. but I'm not, if I dont have a cue I can play with-I cant adjust to it. Boars just bring out the best in me.

I will awalys be a Szam guy, Gus is my hero, even tho he will get pissed at me for saying this, I think Barry has passed up his dad in his cue making and I'm not talking about inlay work. The Szamboti family to me are the kings of cue making. I did take out my rosewood GSB the other night and it plays good as the Boar.
It is pretty well known that the BB's play very well.

From all that I can gather from the questions from the OP, is a buyer able to get a good return on his investment with buying a BB?
That can be hard to predict with the economy as it currently is and the US deficit growing worse. But as some have pointed out in this thread, there is very little wiggle room on cues that are priced at $20K and over while there is more wiggle room in a cue that is priced at $6K. So again, the OP should decide if he wants a BB to play with or as an investment. But if the OP is looking at guaranteed returns it is safe to stick with a bank CD or a ROTH-IRA.

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02-16-2011, 12:24 PM

I'm curious how a Vollmer cue compares to a Boar? I know that Michael worked with Tony for a while and the look of the two are very similar. Just wondering how the play compares.
  
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