Exploring the myth of the "Hustler"

jalapus logan

jalapus logan

be all. and supports it to
Silver Member
Many times, I have heard pool players make the comment that exposure of one’s ability will hurt the pool player’s income. This concept is laughable. Yes, while it will ultimately turn off a “sucker”, exposure greatly heightens any sport’s legitimacy, attracts advertising and sponsorship dollars, and greatly expands the economic “pie” available to the players. Yet many pool players still seek to dwell in the shadows, as if millionaires are minted in those dimly lit hovels we call pool halls. Not much future there, I’d say. So, why do many pool players still believe in “hustling” as a legitimate means to riches?

Surely, it is an exciting lifestyle. The road, living and dying by the sword, etc. No argument there. However, it is the idea of the “Hustler” that is fundamentally flawed. Take, for instance, our own legend, Fast Eddie, played by Paul Newman (RIP Paul, you were a class act!). Most pool players view the movie as a tale of glory achieved on the green felt. When I watch this movie, I see something else. I see a character that deceived others in order to achieve the following ends: broken phalanges, loss of friends, the death of a lover, association with gangsters, and the loss of a dream. Why do I say the loss of a dream? Observe the final match of the movie as Eddie is finally able to fell his legendary opponent. No joy present – agony instead. Could it be that the journey did not justify the end?

Now, many folks just seem to idolize the character just described. If that is the pinnacle of human achievement to some, then I would argue that they are truly lost. What pool needs (and pool players desperately need) is some serious exposure and promotion. I for one am sick of seeing my area pool rooms disappear due to lack of interest. I am running out of places to play. That is unacceptable. So, it is with this selfishness in mind, that I request that certain pool players PULL THEIR HEAD OUT OF THEIR A$$ and get with the program.

I’m not suggesting that I have the magic potion (or Kool-Aid, as it may well turn out to be). But I would like to formally suggest that folks open their mind to the concept of high visibility as it correlates to higher paychecks. Now, discuss amongst yourselves, as I have to return to my toils in order to earn my keep (and to keep the wife from giving me the boot…).
 
I think people do not realize the power of technology. I still get people who are ignorant of this and do not realize they cannot go on the road and fly under the radar, atleast not for long. If you play state tournaments and are a good player who cashes then those results are readily available on the net.

You might be able to go to the small bars and get your hustle on but step in any poolroom and pull down a decent score and your days are numbered. A phone pic/video and its on the net, they usually take your drivers license in the room as soon as you walk in the door and then they have your name and address. Not hard to get a line on someone when you have all their info.

Road hustling days are pretty much long gone unless you run the bar scene where the drunks and rec players are hanging out for small change. Its kind of like the old days of bank robbers, you had a good shot at getting away with it like other crimes, today your a huge underdog and will be had.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I think people do not realize the power of technology. I still get people who are ignorant of this and do not realize they cannot go on the road and fly under the radar, atleast not for long. If you play state tournaments and are a good player who cashes then those results are readily available on the net.

You might be able to go to the small bars and get your hustle on but step in any poolroom and pull down a decent score and your days are numbered. A phone pic/video and its on the net, they usually take your drivers license in the room as soon as you walk in the door and then they have your name and address. Not hard to get a line on someone when you have all their info.

Road hustling days are pretty much long gone unless you run the bar scene where the drunks and rec players are hanging out for small change. Its kind of like the old days of bank robbers, you had a good shot at getting away with it like other crimes, today your a huge underdog and will be had.
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I agree with what you say. The economics today of hustlin' and scufflin' just don't add up, unless you really like staying at the Knight's Inn down by the interstate and eating canned food.

For what it's worth, I really like what you do Lenny. I think that live streaming could well be an integral part of the future of pool. I wish you and the others great success. Cheers...
 
I sense a great thread here...should be anyway, with such an eloquent opening post.

I too, view "The Hustler" as a movie that is a Greek Tragedy

Tried to give you a greenie, was told I have to spread it around more...:thumbup:
 
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You are comparing two different eras. In today's World you have to be a tournament player (for the most part) to make real money at pool. Endorsements make up a large part of it. That requires character and reputation. The character, Fast Eddie, was merely a cliche of the players of that period. A "hustler" then, wasn't necessarily dishonest, but he had to make a living off of what he did. Did he hide his "speed"? You bet he did. Did he have to give up "weight", to get games? You bet he did. Did he give it up willingly, or try keep some talent hidden in reserve?
There were players that feared the cameras when they showed up at Johnson City. They limited themselves to side matches, and didn't want to be known.
Was this some evil thing? Did the local "pro" get a call to come down to the pool hall, and not know what he was getting into? Give me a break. The town hick didn't always lose, and everybody knew what was going on.
I've been hustled plenty. Did I always lose? No. Did I always know what I was facing? Not as much as the hustler knew, sometimes, but it doesn't take long to figure it out.
There are aspects of this game that will never change. Simply denying it exists doesn't change anything, other than peoples perception of your view on reality.
 
jalapus logan...Ummm, NO, I have to tell that that lifestyle is NOT exciting, nor is it glamourous. Living from day to day, possibly out of your car (if you even have one), depending on whether you "make a score", or at least enough to pay the meagerest of expenses, is not what I would call exciting. I spend 200 days a year 'on the road', so I think I'm qualified to know what expenses are like. Today, it's $150/day, living on the cheap (Motel 6, gas, food, misc., etc). You might be able to do for $100 if you only eat fast food. Still, not what I'd call fun. Most road players have their total net worth in their pocket, with a rubber band around it. I totally agree with Lenny about being "outed" on the road very quickly. Fortunately I don't have to worry about that. I make my living the honest way...and I work hard at it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

jalapus logan said:
Surely, it is an exciting lifestyle. The road, living and dying by the sword, etc. No argument there.
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I believe you are over romanticizing the 'hustler' image. There may be road players today, granted, simply because they are out on the highway driving from venue to venue, but the idea of a pool player going into Hicksville, relieving the locals of their weekly paychecks, then escaping with the help of some girl who wants to go to the big city, is long gone.
There are no more secrets. Everyone knows everyone else and any match-ups these days are made primarily between the backers. All the player has to do is show up.
What remains are the remnants of a rich and colorful past. A great place to visit from time to time, but gone forever.
I personally think Gleason was the man. :)
 
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I think Tramp got his self hit on the head by a big ram during mating season or something.
His posts are getting close to 50% serious in these threads.
 
Highmiles said:
You are comparing two different eras. In today's World you have to be a tournament player (for the most part) to make real money at pool. Endorsements make up a large part of it. That requires character and reputation. The character, Fast Eddie, was merely a cliche of the players of that period. A "hustler" then, wasn't necessarily dishonest, but he had to make a living off of what he did. Did he hide his "speed"? You bet he did. Did he have to give up "weight", to get games? You bet he did. Did he give it up willingly, or try keep some talent hidden in reserve?
There were players that feared the cameras when they showed up at Johnson City. They limited themselves to side matches, and didn't want to be known.
Was this some evil thing? Did the local "pro" get a call to come down to the pool hall, and not know what he was getting into? Give me a break. The town hick didn't always lose, and everybody knew what was going on.
I've been hustled plenty. Did I always lose? No. Did I always know what I was facing? Not as much as the hustler knew, sometimes, but it doesn't take long to figure it out.
There are aspects of this game that will never change. Simply denying it exists doesn't change anything, other than peoples perception of your view on reality.
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It is not my intent to compare "eras" in pool. Indeed, certain aspects of the game will never change. But let's examine golf for example. Plenty of golfers gamble on the links. Just like pool. The difference is that there is also a vibrant, healthy tournament system that has way more money to be won in organized events than gambling.
 
Scott Lee said:
jalapus logan...Ummm, NO, I have to tell that that lifestyle is NOT exciting, nor is it glamourous. Living from day to day, possibly out of your car (if you even have one), depending on whether you "make a score", or at least enough to pay the meagerest of expenses, is not what I would call exciting. I spend 200 days a year 'on the road', so I think I'm qualified to know what expenses are like. Today, it's $150/day, living on the cheap (Motel 6, gas, food, misc., etc). You might be able to do for $100 if you only eat fast food. Still, not what I'd call fun. Most road players have their total net worth in their pocket, with a rubber band around it. I totally agree with Lenny about being "outed" on the road very quickly. Fortunately I don't have to worry about that. I make my living the honest way...and I work hard at it.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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So, you do see my point. It would not serve your way of making a living very well if you were unknown, yes?
 
Tramp Steamer said:
I believe you are over romanticizing the 'hustler' image. There may be road players today, granted, simply because they are out on the highway driving from venue to venue, but the idea of a pool player going in to Hicksville, relieving the locals out of their weekly paychecks, then escaping with the help of some girl who wants to go to the big city, is long gone.
There are no more secrets. Everyone knows everyone else and any match-ups these days are made primarily between the backers. All the player has to do is show up.
What remains are the remnants of a rich and colorful past. A great place to visit from time to time, but gone forever.
I personally think Gleason was the man. :)
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Firstly, yes, Gleason was (is?) the man. Spot on there. But, is this what you meant by my "romanticizing" the hustler image: "broken phalanges, loss of friends, the death of a lover, association with gangsters, and the loss of a dream." My point was that it was not actually romantic, but in reality a tough row to hoe.

My primary point is not that gambling is good/bad, but that WE CAN INCREASE THE MONEY AVAILABLE TO POOL PLAYERS THROUGH PROPER, COORDINATED PROMOTION. Now, I'm done screaming.

As a related thought, just how much money does anyone really think is available to be won gambling nowadays? I just went to my one remaining local pool room where I was informed from an old timer that no one there would "bet on sunrise". Even amongst the top players and high rollers, there is simply not enough money to be won to make it worth ones while, in my opinion. What I am talking about is expanding folks horizons enough to realize that "scoring" 10 or 20 k here and there is chump change compared to what a viable sport can and does offer.
 
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jalapus logan said:
It is not my intent to compare "eras" in pool. Indeed, certain aspects of the game will never change. But let's examine golf for example. Plenty of golfers gamble on the links. Just like pool. The difference is that there is also a vibrant, healthy tournament system that has way more money to be won in organized events than gambling.
Click to expand...

The only difference, is that more people will pay to watch golf. Golf is also promoted more, because there is more gear to be sold, and more competition among manufacturers.
Perhaps I am not clear in your intent for this post. Are you wanting players to clean up their act so tournaments will become begger and more profitable?
It can't really happen, because there is not enough profit to be made by those who would fund the effort.
Just as an example.
How much money can Calloway afford to put into golf tournaments, and how much profit can they get from player endorsements?

How much money can Predator afford to put into a pool tournament, and how much profit can they get from endorsements?

I guarantee Predator has 1/10 the budget, and how many pool manufacturers are there with big money, compared to golf equipment manufacturers?
 
Highmiles said:
The only difference, is that more people will pay to watch golf. Golf is also promoted more, because there is more gear to be sold, and more competition among manufacturers.
Perhaps I am not clear in your intent for this post. Are you wanting players to clean up their act so tournaments will become begger and more profitable?
It can't really happen, because there is not enough profit to be made by those who would fund the effort.
Just as an example.
How much money can Calloway afford to put into golf tournaments, and how much profit can they get from player endorsements?

How much money can Predator afford to put into a pool tournament, and how much profit can they get from endorsements?

I guarantee Predator has 1/10 the budget, and how many pool manufacturers are there with big money, compared to golf equipment manufacturers?
Click to expand...

I suppose that what you are saying is that pool/pool companies can not afford to promote and advertise.

I am saying that they can not afford NOT to promote and advertise.
 
jalapus logan said:
I suppose that what you are saying is that pool/pool companies can not afford to promote and advertise.

I am saying that they can not afford NOT to promote and advertise.
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Not exactly.
I'm saying the pool companies don't have as much cash, and there isn't as much money in it for them.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I think Tramp got his self hit on the head by a big ram during mating season or something.
His posts are getting close to 50% serious in these threads.
Click to expand...

What's the haps, Blue Hog? You know, I'm kind of worried about that myself. They recently cut back on the Thorazine, here at the home, and all of a sudden my lucidity level has skyrocketed. You reckon if I smoke some of that hippy lettuce it will help? :wink:
 
Old school pool halls downtown. You walked in and could smell the cigar smoke. The wood floors creaked beneath your feet. A hardwood floor was probably not the best for keeping a table level but thats what was there.
Thems was good days as far as I can remember.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm this is a good tread......

Some of you noted that Fast Eddie was the hustler, giving weight all the other stuff that was said, but one of the best parts in the Color of Money is when Forest Whitaker, Hustles Newman, I would think this is how it would sometimes be in real life for a Hustler. IMO, But I will say my oppinion may not be worth much, because I'm no Hustler, not even close.

My personal favorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBvyB2dTnlQ


I'm like the 90% of the players out there, I play tournament pool and IMO that is what is going to save pool, WHY??? Look at what it has done for golf, when you see it on TV, people get inspired, they have something to strive for..... That's the way I look at it, it may be wrong, who knows???



BL
 
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