Tip-Offset & Pivot Aiming 101

Colin Colenso · Jan 10, 2006

An interesting method of aligning to determine potting angles is to select initial alignment points, usually Center, 3/4, 1/2 and edge of OB and then adjust for the angle away from these using the method described and diagrammed below.

For simplicity I'll show a near full ball pot...approximately 10 degrees of potting angle, CB about 4 feet from the OB.

See diagram below:
The blue line is the initial line up method. Align the the cue about 1/2 tip off center from the CB so that it points directly at the center of the OB. Ignore the CB, other than to make sure the tip offset is the required 1/2 tip distance from center (about 6mm).

The white ghost ball track in the diagram represents the ghost ball track around the blue aim line. But I think most players using this system simply imagine the blue line or pointing a the blue spot which is the core center of the OB.

Once aligned, pivot the cue at the pink pivot point to the center of the CB. It will align to the green line and hopefully will pot the ball.

If the OB and CB were closer you may need a 1 tip offset. If the angle was just 3 degrees perhaps just an 1/8th tip offset.

Anyway, though it may stimulate a useful discussion on such aiming systems...the pros and cons, the variable at play...other related methods of establishing aim.
The Calcul8r

BillYards · Jan 10, 2006

This flies completely in the face of the ancient 'Wu Tang' aiming system that I describe in my book 'Zen, Wu Tang Fu, and the Ancient Art of Aiming', which relies heavily on experience and perception of shots to pocket balls.

Book excerpt from page 843: "The experienced warrior (billiard player) will aim with a clear mind, aligning shaft to target, visualizing a successful shot. And he shall know his aim is true when the tension of the shot slips to nothingness and all that is left is perfect alignment. Then and only then shall he execute the shot."

This passage is a translation from master Shogun teacher Ying Tao, taken from his original handwritten documents titled "Aiming with the Inner Eye" from about 1050 AD. This is the document that details the complete Wu Tang Fu shooting style and was the major reference for the aiming chapters of my book.

The main point of the aiming chapters of my book can be over-simplified into this: aiming systems are a way to double-check a shot, but should not be relied upon. The true (and best) warriors shoot by seeing the shot in the mind's eye first, followed by an automatic physical (mind clear) execution of the shot. And those chapters detail how to train your mind and body to act together automatically in this manner.

supergreenman · Jan 10, 2006

BillYards said:
This flies completely in the face of the ancient 'Wu Tang' aiming system that I describe in my book 'Zen, Wu Tang Fu, and the Ancient Art of Aiming', which relies heavily on experience and perception of shots to pocket balls.

Book excerpt from page 843: "The experienced warrior (billiard player) will aim with a clear mind, aligning shaft to target, visualizing a successful shot. And he shall know his aim is true when the tension of the shot slips to nothingness and all that is left is perfect alignment. Then and only then shall he execute the shot."

This passage is a translation from master Shogun teacher Ying Tao, taken from his original handwritten documents titled "Aiming with the Inner Eye" from about 1050 AD. This is the document that details the complete Wu Tang Fu shooting style and was the major reference for the aiming chapters of my book.

The main point of the aiming chapters of my book can be over-simplified into this: aiming systems are a way to double-check a shot, but should not be relied upon. The true (and best) warriors shoot by seeing the shot in the mind's eye first, followed by an automatic physical (mind clear) execution of the shot. And those chapters detail how to train your mind and body to act together automatically in this manner.

You're billiard phillosophy is similar to my farfromknoggin phillosophy. Not to be confused with the volkswagon farfunnugin phillosopy (be one with the road) farfromknoggin(be one with the ball) employs a rigid system of ignoring all complex mathematical formulas relating to aiming systems and banking systems and expounds on hanging loose, going with your first instincts.

The diciple of farfromknoggin pushes the cue ball with his mind to it's goal using the cue as an extension of his mind and heart(and balls if applicable).

The farfromknogginer is never truly at peace without a cue in hand and table close by.

BillYards · Jan 10, 2006

Greenman:

Yes! You are exactly right! In fact historians claim that Master Tao actually travelled to Europe and planted the seeds of Wu Tang aiming there. Those seeds grew into what you now know as the "Farfromknoggin" method of aiming.

Master Tao supposedly improved aiming in Croquet (billiards before it was moved from the grass to a table) and altered the game by showing the French how to use their foot to hold the ball. In fact, that is how the English word 'toe' evolved... the French called holding the ball with the foot the "Tao" method... and that was picked-up by the English and eventually changed to 'toe'.

My book outlines both the "Mindlessness Over Matter" and "Aiming While Looking The Other Way" forms of Classical Farfromknoggin. I found Modern Farfromknoggin to be to complex to include in this book and will have to save all of that material for my next two volumes. They will be titled "Screwing for Position" and "Wax-on, Wax-off".

I am shipping you a free copy of my first book so you can read this amazing history and maybe pick up some hints to improve your shooting!

Colin Colenso · Jan 10, 2006

BillYards said:
This flies completely in the face of the ancient 'Wu Tang' aiming system that I describe in my book 'Zen, Wu Tang Fu, and the Ancient Art of Aiming', which relies heavily on experience and perception of shots to pocket balls.

Book excerpt from page 843: "The experienced warrior (billiard player) will aim with a clear mind, aligning shaft to target, visualizing a successful shot. And he shall know his aim is true when the tension of the shot slips to nothingness and all that is left is perfect alignment. Then and only then shall he execute the shot."

This passage is a translation from master Shogun teacher Ying Tao, taken from his original handwritten documents titled "Aiming with the Inner Eye" from about 1050 AD. This is the document that details the complete Wu Tang Fu shooting style and was the major reference for the aiming chapters of my book.

The main point of the aiming chapters of my book can be over-simplified into this: aiming systems are a way to double-check a shot, but should not be relied upon. The true (and best) warriors shoot by seeing the shot in the mind's eye first, followed by an automatic physical (mind clear) execution of the shot. And those chapters detail how to train your mind and body to act together automatically in this manner.

Funnily enough...from what I can understand of your post I tend to agree with you.

This and similar systems such as adjusting the bridge to vary the angle can work ok on shortish shots. But on longish shots, a 1mm mispositioning of the tip in the initial alignment can lead to a 3-5 degree variation of final angle.

So even if you've memorized a whole table of offsets for various angles and CB-OB distances, and accurately guessed the angle and you can line up perfectly to the point you are aligning to, then if you accidentally start with the tip 5mm instead of 6mm off center, then you can shots with 4 or more feet between CB and OB with OB a couple of feet or more from the pocket. Especially around the finer cut angles.

I think these systems can help get your eyes right and then get you into the ball park. Then I'd still trust my accuracy of eye / intuitive judgment with adjustments of as little as 1/4 mm in my brige hand to move an OB from edge to middle pocket on a long shot.

But if you are not seeing the angles clearly, you can fall back on these systems

Still experimenting!

BillYards · Jan 10, 2006

Colin:

Just jacking with you, Man! Hope you don't take offense! Some guys use aiming systems... I just can't ever seem to figure them out and prefer to feel my way through the darkness!

Also: I did not get to see the photos of your home table.... You have the one in an apartment in Shanghai, right?

Colin Colenso · Jan 10, 2006

BillYards said:
Colin:

Just jacking with you, Man! Hope you don't take offense! Some guys use aiming systems... I just can't ever seem to figure them out and prefer to feel my way through the darkness!

Also: I did not get to see the photos of your home table.... You have the one in an apartment in Shanghai, right?

Hi BY,
I know and I appreciated the humour

Just couldn't think of anything to top it

Photos in the next week I hope. (Have to get my assistant to bring a camera around) Been a crazy work week.

supergreenman · Jan 10, 2006

BillYards said:
Greenman:

Yes! You are exactly right! In fact historians claim that Master Tao actually travelled to Europe and planted the seeds of Wu Tang aiming there. Those seeds grew into what you now know as the "Farfromknoggin" method of aiming.

Master Tao supposedly improved aiming in Croquet (billiards before it was moved from the grass to a table) and altered the game by showing the French how to use their foot to hold the ball. In fact, that is how the English word 'toe' evolved... the French called holding the ball with the foot the "Tao" method... and that was picked-up by the English and eventually changed to 'toe'.

My book outlines both the "Mindlessness Over Matter" and "Aiming While Looking The Other Way" forms of Classical Farfromknoggin. I found Modern Farfromknoggin to be to complex to include in this book and will have to save all of that material for my next two volumes. They will be titled "Screwing for Position" and "Wax-on, Wax-off".

I am shipping you a free copy of my first book so you can read this amazing history and maybe pick up some hints to improve your shooting!

OMG what a riot

I think a book like that would be hot off the shelves!!!!

Colin Colenso · Jan 10, 2006

What happened to all the aiming guys...Coernerman, Flex, DM (Oh I remember) etc etc?

I think this diagram cleary shows an important feature of Houlian aiming systems that is usually quite difficult to understand through words alone...am I wrong?

The Calculator >~ Missing the physics geeks

Flex · Jan 11, 2006

Colin Colenso said:
What happened to all the aiming guys...Coernerman, Flex, DM (Oh I remember) etc etc?

I think this diagram cleary shows an important feature of Houlian aiming systems that is usually quite difficult to understand through words alone...am I wrong?

The Calculator >~ Missing the physics geeks

I'm here, Colin. Just haven't posted too much of late. By the way, Joe Tucker's explanation on his website through the online video about the role of the eyes and the variations of dominant eyes from one player to the next has been an absolutely fantastic thing for me.

I've made adjustments in my aiming for straight in shots, and it has helped me pot more balls, and is also very useful with the aiming systems you've developed using pivot points and so on.

The explanation you give here I had already incorporated, for Cornerman had given some tips about aiming as you have.

Very very helpful!

An important facet to what you've written in this thread and shown with the diagram is how easy it is to aim, with any cue, using this method.

Thanks so much.

Flex

LastTwo · Jan 11, 2006

I've been exposed to a couple of systems where you have to pivot and swerve your cue. They can be useful for certain shots that some might have trouble with, and I haven't found any of these systems to be consistent, and I personally think that having a straight stroke makes potting any and all kinds of shots much more simple. When it comes to swerving the cue, I think most players do it unintentionally to compensate for improper alignment. Joe Tucker explains this pretty thoroughly. Swerving your cue on the execution stroke is all about timing, and it causes you to lose alot of power in the stroke.

mikepage · Jan 11, 2006

Colin Colenso said:
An interesting method of aligning to determine potting angles is to select initial alignment points, usually Center, 3/4, 1/2 and edge of OB and then adjust for the angle away from these using the method described and diagrammed below.

For simplicity I'll show a near full ball pot...approximately 10 degrees of potting angle, CB about 4 feet from the OB.

See diagram below:
The blue line is the initial line up method. Align the the cue about 1/2 tip off center so that it points directly at the center of the CB. Ignore the CB, other than to make sure the tip offset is the required 1/2 tip distance from center (about 6mm).

The white ghost ball track in the diagram represents the ghost ball track around the blue aim line. But I think most players using this system simply imagine the blue line or pointing a the blue spot which is the core center of the OB.

Once aligned, pivot the cue at the pink pivot point to the center of the CB. It will align to the green line and hopefully will pot the ball.
[...]

Here's what bothers me about this. The shot you show is a centerball shot, so every stick regardless of its squirt should point the same way in the end, right?

Yet your method gets to a different stick orientation for every different pivot point. The only way to save it, it seems, is to have the initial offset (the half tip offset, the subjective part of the scheme) depend on the sticks pivot point, and then it's getting too compicated, imo.

mike page
fargo

BillYards · Jan 11, 2006

Mike:

I think the pivot point is the bridge hand (which only moves for the initial, off-center alignment). The bridge would need to be the same distance from the cueball on all shots for this method to work consistently.

Also, I don't think Colin is talking about swerving the stick... it is a straight stroke after the adjustments are made.

I really prefer visualizing and then letting my brain and body shoot the shot. This aiming stuff will drive you nuts. You should know some aiming systems to use for long cut shots and spot shots, but beyond that, just let it flow, Man!

mikepage said:
Here's what bothers me about this. The shot you show is a centerball shot, so every stick regardless of its squirt should point the same way in the end, right?

Yet your method gets to a different stick orientation for every different pivot point. The only way to save it, it seems, is to have the initial offset (the half tip offset, the subjective part of the scheme) depend on the sticks pivot point, and then it's getting too compicated, imo.

mike page
fargo

jsp · Jan 11, 2006

Colin Colenso said:
The blue line is the initial line up method. Align the the cue about 1/2 tip off center so that it points directly at the center of the CB.

Hey Calc, I'm trying to understand the system you're describing (i'm kinda slow at understanding new things). For the above quote, don't you mean "center of the OB" instead of the CB? And when you refer to 1/2 tip off center, you're talking about CB, correct? Also, how did you get to exactly 1/2 tip off center? I guess the greater the cut angle, than the greater the offset. Thanks.

pete lafond · Jan 11, 2006

Colin Colenso said:
Hi BY,
I know and I appreciated the humour Just couldn't think of anything to top it
Photos in the next week I hope. (Have to get my assistant to bring a camera around) Been a crazy work week.

Yes, I also (and others I'm sure) am waiting to see your new pad w/pool table. Loking forward.

chefjeff · Jan 11, 2006

Calculator man....When you pivot, have you aligned your stance beforehand to be in line with the pivot? Or, do you tweak your stance after/as you do the pivot thingy?

I'm asking this before I try your stuff, as lately, I've been consciously walking into my stance in a more accurate, precise manner than I've done before. This is because I have been having trouble seeing my aim when down on the ball, and tweaking my stance after down on the shot doesn't work so well anymore. So, I'm working on being anally accurate when going into my stance to eliminate that problem.

Love your drawing!

Jeff Livingston

Flex · Jan 11, 2006

jsp said:
Hey Calc, I'm trying to understand the system you're describing (i'm kinda slow at understanding new things). For the above quote, don't you mean "center of the OB" instead of the CB? And when you refer to 1/2 tip off center, you're talking about CB, correct? Also, how did you get to exactly 1/2 tip off center? I guess the greater the cut angle, than the greater the offset. Thanks.

As for the "exactly 1/2 tip off center" question, geometry aside, I had already found out by trial and error that that is the approximate amount that is needed. A little more, a little less, it may work with your stick, tip, combination. In any case, it's a small amount. The advantage of doing the aiming with the pivot point for the distance from cue ball to object ball in question is that even if you are a tad off in the 1/2 stuff, the ball will probably pot, if your stroke is straight.

There's a whole lot to this system that is not at all complicated, IMHO.

One of the key elements is choosing the correct pivot point for your cue for the CB to OB distance, a second is the aiming part that he covers in this thread, and if you have chosen the correct point on the OB to aim at, and your stroke is straight, the ball should pot. Of course if your stroke a bit off and you are adding some swipe into the mix on a longer shot you very well might miss the shot.

I'm finding this system Colin has come up with based on the varying pivot points to be pretty simple to internalize so that not too much thought needs to go into the aiming and shooting of the shot. It's part of my pre-shot routine now, and it's working better and better for me. However if I were playing with three cues with different shaft tapers and tips, it would take some time to adjust, but heck, isn't pool a game of adaptation to multiple factors anyway?

Flex

Colin Colenso · Jan 11, 2006

jsp said:
Hey Calc, I'm trying to understand the system you're describing (i'm kinda slow at understanding new things). For the above quote, don't you mean "center of the OB" instead of the CB? And when you refer to 1/2 tip off center, you're talking about CB, correct? Also, how did you get to exactly 1/2 tip off center? I guess the greater the cut angle, than the greater the offset. Thanks.

Yes you're right jsp. I've now edited the original to read:
Align the the cue about 1/2 tip off center from the CB so that it points directly at the center of the OB.

Colin Colenso · Jan 11, 2006

chefjeff said:
Calculator man....When you pivot, have you aligned your stance beforehand to be in line with the pivot? Or, do you tweak your stance after/as you do the pivot thingy?

I'm asking this before I try your stuff, as lately, I've been consciously walking into my stance in a more accurate, precise manner than I've done before. This is because I have been having trouble seeing my aim when down on the ball, and tweaking my stance after down on the shot doesn't work so well anymore. So, I'm working on being anally accurate when going into my stance to eliminate that problem.

Love your drawing!

Jeff Livingston

Sometimes when using pivoting, I do move my body and even feet to get more comfortable for the stroke. It depends on how much you need to pivot. For this alignment method, it may be necessary if you start the alignment 1 1/2 tips off center.

Just want to point out, that while I think this system is a useful guide, and an interesting way to check your alignment, it would take some time to make it highly accurate.

It may be useful also for those who don't see the angles to well and want a quick fix to get them in the ball park.

Colin Colenso · Jan 11, 2006

mikepage said:
Here's what bothers me about this. The shot you show is a centerball shot, so every stick regardless of its squirt should point the same way in the end, right?

Yet your method gets to a different stick orientation for every different pivot point. The only way to save it, it seems, is to have the initial offset (the half tip offset, the subjective part of the scheme) depend on the sticks pivot point, and then it's getting too compicated, imo.

mike page
fargo

Hi Mike,
Yes, this method sets you up for a center ball pot. But once you've established this, you can use BHE to play the shot, provided your bridge is at or near the required length for the shot you are taking.

For these systems to work neatly together at various lengths though, you would need to alter the tip offset to match the pivot point being used, which would become quite complex.

But you could, once aligned, just slide the bridge along that line to the correct pivot point.

But as we all know, the more you move around with the bridge, pivoting back and forth and so, more errors come into play.

I don't advocate this system entirely, but I am playing around with it. It has potential for a player that works on it regularly, but I'm not sure it can match the high accuracy that players can get from seeing the angles in other ways.

It may certainly be useful in helping with blind cut back shots, or other shots where a player might have trouble seeing the angles.

I find it useful on 5 to 10 degree off long straight shots. I use the system a little differently though. I line up dead center shot through the center of the CB. The straigh shot being an angle that with practice can be very accurate. Then I slide my bridge across a mm or 2 or 3, according to my experience with that angle at that distance.

This usually lines up the OB to approximate pocket position. I now know that I have not confused my alignment with my eyes as I sometimes do. Then I look at the shot and see if it feels right, and make small adjustments.

What I prefer about this method, is I can begin the bridge at any length, and so set it at my appropriate pivot length for a BHE shot.

Tip-Offset & Pivot Aiming 101

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