Expert Chime-ins needed...

8-ball Rat

8-ball Rat

I'll eat you alive.....
Silver Member
Hey all,

Wanted to get some cue experts to ring in on this one...as I'm stumped. First, I'll post pics of the cue when it returns from the refinish job at Proficient. Maybe (I'm sure) that will aid in the search for an answer.

Anyhoo....here we go.

Bought a cue from a local gentleman (D.C. area) awhile ago, based solely on how the cue played. Marvelous hit, and sound as can be. Problem being...I have no clue who made it. Here's the rough breakdown: 5/16-14 SS piloted joint (small maple dashes ringwork at joint), Birdseye forearm with rosewood points and 4 veneers (maple, red, red, black)...outermost point looks cnc'd, with inlaid interior veneers.... linen wrap, rosewood buttsleeve with large centered maple ring all the way around, with rosewood windows in it. Delrin buttcap, rubber allen-screwed bumper.

Here's the kicker....the wrap was in really bad shape, so I removed it prior to sending it to Proficient. Under the wrap was written "N.V. - for Phil Schmit, 1982"

Anybody got something resembling a clue as to who N.V. is???? Cue is solid, hits like a dream, and has questionable heritage (much like me, I guess).

Any help would be appreciated...and pics will follow once it comes back home.

Thanks ya'll.

Be good,

Rat
 
Tbeaux said:
Was Nick Varner doing any cues back then?:confused:

Terry
Click to expand...
That was who I thought it was the first time I saw the thread.
Had to look this up in the Blue Book - Nick Varner started making cues in 1999.
 
Still stumped

Yep...Nick Varner was the first (and only) name that came to my mind, too....but the cue isn't "endorsed," per se. I'm assuming the N.V. under the wrap was the guy that actually made the cue....and I've got no other ideas.

It does kind of look like an older Joss cue...but no markings that match up to what I'm familiar with regarding older Joss cues (gold letters, older logos, etc).

I suppose it'll remain a mystery....but the cue hits like a champion, and I love it...regardless of who actually made it.

That said, when I first bought the cue, I had several daydreams of finding a name under the wrap....but the ones I was really hoping for would've funded about a dozen custom cues, and part of my boy's college education!

I'll still put a couple pics up, when I get it back from the refinish job.

Thanks ya'll,

Rat (Mark)
 
UPDATE!!! Scott's Got It Now!

Hey all,

If you go to Scott Sherbine's site (Proficient Billiards, for those who may not know), my mystery cue is the third from the bottom. It's the only one with two pieces of blue tape on the wrap section...and if you look between the two pieces of tape, you can see where the cuemaker wrote on the handle...."N.V. - for Phil Schmit, 1982"

Again, 4 point, 4 veneer, rosewood or macassar ebony points and buttsleeve....maple box all around sleeve, with matching windows in it. Delrin cap, stainless 5/16-14 piloted joint.

Still no clue who "N.V." is....but figured I'd throw a picture reference out there...just in case someone needs the visual to help me out on this one.

Thanks again, and shoot 'em good.

RAT (Mark)
 
I am by NO means an expert but is it my imagination or does your cue share kinda reverse elements in common with Cueaddicts cue on thread "unknown cue.....please help"?

Terry<don't know how to explain what I'm seeing any better...sorry
 
Unknown Cue...

Yeah, kinda similar. A couple significant differences, though. Cueaddicts' cue has much better ringwork....mine is just a simple maple-dash configuration....maple dashes and ebony (?) small squares.

Second, the Craig Peterson cue has sharp points all around.

My cue has what looks like a CNC outer point, with inlaid/mitered (perhaps) inner veneers.

Not sure if the points and sleeve are macassar, rosewood, or something else.......

Of note, there's a green ring above and below the maple box in the buttsleeve...real subtle, but noticeable.

Any way you cut it, though...it's an awesome hitter....just frustrating to not have some lineage to go with it, ya know?

Any and all possibilities are more than welcome on this thread.

I'd love to get some ideas from the crew that hangs out here and knows their cues!!!
Thanks!

Mark (RAT)
 
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JMO,

I would say early Joss...just because of the pin and pointwork. You may want to contact Joss and see if they had an employee with the initials NV. The buttcap could of always been replaced as to why it doesn't say Joss.

Just my 0.02,
Shorty
 
8-ball Rat said:
Hey all,

If you go to Scott Sherbine's site (Proficient Billiards, for those who may not know), my mystery cue is the third from the bottom. It's the only one with two pieces of blue tape on the wrap section...and if you look between the two pieces of tape, you can see where the cuemaker wrote on the handle...."N.V. - for Phil Schmit, 1982"

Again, 4 point, 4 veneer, rosewood or macassar ebony points and buttsleeve....maple box all around sleeve, with matching windows in it. Delrin cap, stainless 5/16-14 piloted joint.

Still no clue who "N.V." is....but figured I'd throw a picture reference out there...just in case someone needs the visual to help me out on this one.

Thanks again, and shoot 'em good.

RAT (Mark)
Click to expand...
Because the note is on the handle, I have to assume that the cuemaker was making a note to himself. If you visit a cue shop, you'll see all types of notes on handles.

N.V. could be anything in the personal cuemaker's quick notation.

Joss Ltd. marked their cues in the 80's, so that's probably not it. Unless it was made before the logo changed to the collar, and was on the buttcap which was replaced. Delrin and all.

I can't get past your description that the outer point is routed, but the inner points have mitered veneers? That doesn't make much sense to me, workwise. Maybe... it was a pantagraphed cue, and the cuemaker added "New Veneers" for Phil.

Fred
 
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Cornerman said:
I can't get past your description that the outer point is routed, but the inner points have mitered veneers? That doesn't make much sense to me, workwise.

Fred
Click to expand...

This is a technique that Bill Stroud uses, which leads me to believe it may be an old Joss from the days when Bill Stroud and Dan Janes were together. I still see the technique used on Joss West cues. The points are flat bottom and the inner veneers are laid in and mitered which give the illusion of v-spliced points.
 
Nevada, perhaps???

Just had a thought....what are the odds that perhaps the writing on the handle WAS a note made by the maker....and that Mr. Schmit was living in Nevada at the time? Another possibility, I suppose.

Yeah, the points don't make much sense to me, either. They are even and rounded...so to me, that screams CNC....but the interior veneers are definitely sharp..and you can see the fine line where they meet at the tip of each color done.

I'll drop Mr. Stroud and Mr. Janes a line...and maybe see if they remember the cue, or can steer me in the right direction.

The search continues!!!

Mark (RAT)
 
it's an old joss (pre-splitup), or old joss west.

i had one a lond time ago with the same rings and same buttsleeve, but mine had ivory blocks where the ebony was.

buttcap must have been changed.


chris G
 
Ya'll Cross your fingers for me!!!

Hey ya'll,

Just sent an e-mail to both Mr. Janes and Mr. Stroud, giving a specs breakdown on the cue.

Hoping to hear back from 'em soon...so at least I'll know if I'm in the right neighborhood on it.

Thanks to all ya'll for helping me work to solve a mystery.

Be good,

Rat (Mark)
 
8-ball Rat said:
Hey ya'll,

Just sent an e-mail to both Mr. Janes and Mr. Stroud, giving a specs breakdown on the cue.

Hoping to hear back from 'em soon...so at least I'll know if I'm in the right neighborhood on it.

Thanks to all ya'll for helping me work to solve a mystery.

Be good,

Rat (Mark)
Click to expand...

This is a good thread. I think you'll get confirmation that it is indeed a old Joss. Since it says 1982, it's not pre-split. Seems to be leading to Billy, not Danny.

Fred
 
Hoping for Mr. Stroud....

Hey, ya'll...

No word from Mr. Stroud yet....and all the e-mails I try to send to Mr. Janes get returned.....so I'm still fighting the good fight.

Checked up on the details in the new Blue Book...and 1982 is AFTER the two went their seperate ways....so I'm crossing all fingers and toes that Mr. Stroud can claim it as one of his.

Once I get the cue back from Mr. Sherbine, I'll post a couple pics....just because I'd like to have some decent ones up for folks to see and give opinions on.

Be good, ya'll.

RAT (Mark)
 
Cornerman said:
Can we assume the note saying 1982 points to josswest?

Fred
Click to expand...


I would say that is a fair assumption.

8-ball Rat: You might trying emailing a pic to Tim Scruggs. He knows old Joss and Joss West cues as well as anyone. He can usually tell the difference between a Dan or Bill pre-split cue, so I'm sure he would be able to determine if this cue is a Joss West.
 
NOT a JossWest

Hey all,

Much to my disappointment, I received an e-mail from Mr. Stroud today...and he said it is not one of his.

Still having trouble getting an e-mail to go through to Mr. Janes at Joss....so no clue how that's gonna pan out. I'm also gonna send a pic to Mr. Scruggs here in Maryland...maybe he can steer me right, too.

ANYBODY HAVE ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS/IDEAS ABOUT WHO MAY HAVE MADE THIS CUE. THE TIME FRAME (1982) LENDS ITSELF TO A MUCH SMALLER FIELD OF POSSIBILITIES...BUT I'M NOT FAMILIAR ENOUGH WITH THE OLDER STUFF TO KNOW WHERE TO GO NEXT! :(

Keep me afloat on this one, fellas.....the curiosity is gonna kill me!!!

Be good, ya'll.

RAT (Mark)
 
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