TAR Podcast #8 - Shane - Fransisco - Shane Talks About His Aiming Method

Fast Lenny · Jan 13, 2012

TAR Podcast #8 - Shane - Francisco - Shane Talks About His Aiming Method

I heard about Shane and the stick aiming thing and was curious if it was the same thing I learned and mentioned it in previous threads. This past year I also learned the shaft method and it has really helped my game tremendously, biggest improvement and most important thing I have ever learned. I am not saying I never miss because since I have poor mechanics and am still learning and working on things in the game (this is year 7 for me). I still need more table time, conditioning and do not think I am a natural talent in pool so I have no delusions of hitting pro level but making more balls certainly makes the game more fun and allows me to win more. Many things besides knowing where to aim go into making a pool ball I realize, stepping into the shot correctly, keeping your head down, stroking straight through and hitting where you intend to hit among other things.

He talks about this method at 36:38 in the video for a few minutes and even sets it up, he does not explain it great but I am sure if he had time to prepare he could teach the method. Maybe some of the non believers in aiming systems will quiet down a bit and understand its not snake oil and all the system players out there should stop beating there chest and trying to force it down peoples throats either, it works for some but not all. I believe many pro players have systems and others play by feel, the person I learned this system from a guy here in Arizona who learned the method himself also like Shane did and plays at a high level.

Thanks Justin for getting an answer to a question I and others were curious about.

http://youtu.be/xljm_Aox66Y

12squared · Jan 13, 2012

Fast Lenny said:
I heard about Shane and the stick aiming thing and was curious if it was the same thing I learned and mentioned it in previous threads. This past year I also learned the shaft method and it has really helped my game tremendously, biggest improvement and most important thing I have ever learned. I am not saying I never miss because since I have poor mechanics and am still learning and working on things in the game (this is year 7 for me). I still need more table time, conditioning and do not think I am a natural talent in pool so I have no delusions of hitting pro level but making more balls certainly makes the game more fun and allows me to win more. Many things besides knowing where to aim go into making a pool ball I realize, stepping into the shot correctly, keeping your head down, stroking straight through and hitting where you intend to hit among other things.

He talks about this method at 36:38 in the video for a few minutes and even sets it up, he does not explain it great but I am sure if he had time to prepare he could teach the method. Maybe some of the non believers in aiming systems will quiet down a bit and understand its not snake oil and all the system players out there should stop beating there chest and trying to force it down peoples throats either, it works for some but not all. I believe many pro players have systems and others play by feel, the person I learned this system from a guy here in Arizona who learned the method himself also like Shane did and plays at a high level.

Thanks Justin for getting an answer to a question I and others were curious about.

http://youtu.be/xljm_Aox66Y

Thanks for the question, post & link, Lenny. Too bad there was not a question asked about what part of the cueball he's using to aim the shaft. I wonder if that changes for different shots as well? Or would it always be center ball?

rep to you lenny.

Dave

Fast Lenny · Jan 13, 2012

12squared said:
Thanks for the question, post & link, Lenny. Too bad there was not a question asked about what part of the cueball he's using to aim the shaft. I wonder if that changes for different shots as well? Or would it always be center ball?

rep to you lenny.

Dave

Dave I personally aim using the shaft through the center of the cue ball, if I need to put spin I still aim the shaft to the the same point hitting the edge of the object ball, your breaking down the shaft, right side, left side center, left or right 1/4 shafts and so on to fine tune it. I gave people an experiment they could try with the method for spot shots that come up in one pocket.

Take cue ball in hand in the kitchen, place the cue ball 1 diamond from the side rail and 2 diamonds up from the end rail on the line. To make the ball its center of the shaft to the edge of the ball, its obviously the left side of the object ball if your shooting to the right corner and left side of the ball if your going to the right corner. If you move the cue ball over to the rail it would be left side of the shaft to edge of the ball if your shooting to the right corner and right side of the shaft to the edge of the ball if your shooting to the left corner.

These examples your shooting straight through the cue ball, your using your shaft as the aiming device. You can place your cue ball in the middle diamond of the end rail and cue ball on the kitchen line and shoot the spot shot, this would be using the right side of the shaft to the left edge of the ball to make it in the right hand corner and the left edge of the shaft to the right edge of the ball make it in the left hand corner.

The spot shot is not so easy to start off using this method with and I recommend moving in closer. Maybe set up the cue ball in the center of the table side pocket to side pocket shooting the spot shot. I should do a little video with a brief explanation on how to get people going before they take on hard shots trying this but at the moment no time. IMO this method should be taught in person to really get it down, no tournaments or gambling after you learn it and just perfect it until you are comfortable so you do not revert back to old methods under pressure.

lfigueroa · Jan 13, 2012

Fast Lenny said:
I heard about Shane and the stick aiming thing and was curious if it was the same thing I learned and mentioned it in previous threads. This past year I also learned the shaft method and it has really helped my game tremendously, biggest improvement and most important thing I have ever learned. I am not saying I never miss because since I have poor mechanics and am still learning and working on things in the game (this is year 7 for me). I still need more table time, conditioning and do not think I am a natural talent in pool so I have no delusions of hitting pro level but making more balls certainly makes the game more fun and allows me to win more. Many things besides knowing where to aim go into making a pool ball I realize, stepping into the shot correctly, keeping your head down, stroking straight through and hitting where you intend to hit among other things.

He talks about this method at 36:38 in the video for a few minutes and even sets it up, he does not explain it great but I am sure if he had time to prepare he could teach the method. Maybe some of the non believers in aiming systems will quiet down a bit and understand its not snake oil and all the system players out there should stop beating there chest and trying to force it down peoples throats either, it works for some but not all. I believe many pro players have systems and others play by feel, the person I learned this system from a guy here in Arizona who learned the method himself also like Shane did and plays at a high level.

Thanks Justin for getting an answer to a question I and others were curious about.

http://youtu.be/xljm_Aox66Y

A couple of thoughts:

First off, it's kind of interesting that he says he doesn't know what a "ghost ball" is. I think the fact that he taught this shaft system to himself is also important because what that tells me is that what he is deploying is a personal reference system, as opposed to a geometrically perfect aiming system. What I mean by that is that his reference system works for him, given the way he sets up, sees the balls, and strokes his cue. Others would most probably have to refine and redefine something like this for themselves to essentially create their own personal versions of the system and may find various levels of success with it because no one else sees nor strokes the balls like Shane.

Secondly, every good player, once past the actual true physics, eventually begins to develop their own personal reality about the game. IOW, regardless of the physics, you may have found that if you do one thing with a grip, or bridge, or stroke, something very specific will consistently happen on the pool table. Sort of like when an accomplished player tells you that if you relax your grip, or use a shorter stroke, the balls will behave differently, even though the science guys would say otherwise. So that is you personal system or reality and the physics be damned because it works, for you. Shane is an unbelievable player and the fact that he has developed his own system(s) tells you how far down the rabbit hole he has drilled to find a systematic approach to the game to achieve a super high level of performance.

Lastly, I don't think any of the aiming system non-believers have ever railed against *all* aiming systems -- just the particularly scurrilous claims made by the advocates of one or two systems. The "oil" is still out there

Lou Figueroa

West Point 1987 · Jan 13, 2012

Somewhere on AZ there was thread that described Mike Sigel as doing something similar...IIRC, he aims the inside edge of his shaft at the OB contact point, stroking through the cueball toward that point.

As with all these systems, there're usually a lot of things that have to be adjusted to account for things. Like SVB said, it's a reference point for him, he has to fine tune it as the angles steepen or if he needs spin, etc.

At the moment we pull the trigger (assuming we all make the shot) we are seeing exactly the same thing. All this system talk is trying to describe how he get into that position and what we pay attention to (individually) as a reference point. No mathematical formula will make the micro adjustments required to account for table/ball conditions, throw (collision induced or spin induced), etc., that requires a long time and thousands of attempts at that type shot to pull it all together and make it work reliably.

I played for years and never once considered that anyone saw anything differently when aiming...all this debate over "systems" cracks me up. I figured out how to aim my cueball when I was 11 years old...about the second time I ever stepped up to a table.

SpiderWebComm · Jan 13, 2012

lfigueroa said:
Secondly, every good player, once past the actual true physics, eventually begins to develop their own personal reality about the game.

Lou Figueroa

This is kind of like how you post long lists of world champion players who you've beaten in tournaments, attempting to convince others that you play at their level (in your own personal reality).

JMS · Jan 13, 2012

spiderwebcomm said:
this is kind of like how you post long lists of world champion players who you've beaten in tournaments, attempting to convince others that you play at their level (in your own personal reality).

lol............

Johnnyt · Jan 13, 2012

Thats a pretty cool way to aim to cinch a ball. I went out and set up 120 balls (1 at a time

from 5' to 6 1/2' away and all kinds of angles. I missed 2 of the first 5, but then trusted the system and only missed 3 more balls. I thought that was pretty darn good for the first time using Shanes system...and on 4" pockets and 53 degrees out. Just to be captain O here, you need to align yourselve right and have a straight stroke. Always follow through. Johnnyt

Woof Biscuit · Jan 13, 2012

This is very interesting. I can't wait to try it. I always thought I was a HAMB guy as I just know where to aim after playing for 20 years. However, I really got to thinking about it and I do something similar on inside english shots. I aim through the cueball at my aimpoint and it automatically compensates for the curve unless the shot is real long. Maybe I use a system too and never realized it. Hmmmmm.....

Neil · Jan 13, 2012

...............

irock · Jan 13, 2012

Great interview, and how could anyone not admire these two great champions.

C.Milian · Jan 13, 2012

I use to think there was something special about this game but now realize, if you look hard enough you can find whatever you want on the market. If you find a system that dosen't work, find another one that fits your style. Some may not work for others but may work for you. People are different so different strokes for different folks. :thumbup:

shinobi · Jan 13, 2012

champ2107 said:
this is why your game probably has never developed to an advanced level and you have been on a plateau for many many years im guessing?

The thing I don't get about you champ is...

1) You might very well be right about Lou
2) You might be right about other players you criticize

but I still don't get why you have so much confidence in insulting their game when you have freely admitted you suck? Basically you are telling people that they shouldn't criticize aiming systems because they suck, but they should use them because you think they are a good idea, even though you suck. It's... a little odd don't you think?

trustyrusty · Jan 13, 2012

sorry I missed the LIVE version. The interviews with pros are always interesting to me. Wish I could have asked a question though. What I wonder is, does Shane harbor resentment towards other sports pros that might make a better living for being at the top of their game in their respective sport (like Earl undoubtedly does)? Let's say Shane and Phil Mickelson put in the exact same amount of hard work to hone their skills and try to perfect their game....does it bother Shane that Phil can not win a single event in a year and still make millions of dollars (not even including endorsement deals)?

sorry for the slight threadjack (just a question I've always wanted to hear Shane's perspective on).....as for the aiming method - can't wait to give it a try!!! :thumbup:

champ2107 · Jan 13, 2012

shinobi said:
The thing I don't get about you champ is...

1) You might very well be right about Lou
2) You might be right about other players you criticize

but I still don't get why you have so much confidence in insulting their game when you have freely admitted you suck? Basically you are telling people that they shouldn't criticize aiming systems because they suck, but they should use them because you think they are a good idea, even though you suck. It's... a little odd don't you think?

im just trying to open closed eyes shinobi and let people know that sometimes you have to dig deep to really find out the truth about things. i have never insulted anyone's personal game other than Lou Figawhatever. hey you know, i can say anything on here right? i can tell you i am worth billions if i want and yes compared too efren,shane i do suck and compared to some guy banging balls in a bar on a barbox i may look like a pro!

TATE · Jan 13, 2012

Fast Lenny said:
I heard about Shane and the stick aiming thing and was curious if it was the same thing I learned and mentioned it in previous threads. This past year I also learned the shaft method and it has really helped my game tremendously, biggest improvement and most important thing I have ever learned. I am not saying I never miss because since I have poor mechanics and am still learning and working on things in the game (this is year 7 for me). I still need more table time, conditioning and do not think I am a natural talent in pool so I have no delusions of hitting pro level but making more balls certainly makes the game more fun and allows me to win more. Many things besides knowing where to aim go into making a pool ball I realize, stepping into the shot correctly, keeping your head down, stroking straight through and hitting where you intend to hit among other things.

He talks about this method at 36:38 in the video for a few minutes and even sets it up, he does not explain it great but I am sure if he had time to prepare he could teach the method. Maybe some of the non believers in aiming systems will quiet down a bit and understand its not snake oil and all the system players out there should stop beating there chest and trying to force it down peoples throats either, it works for some but not all. I believe many pro players have systems and others play by feel, the person I learned this system from a guy here in Arizona who learned the method himself also like Shane did and plays at a high level.

Thanks Justin for getting an answer to a question I and others were curious about.

http://youtu.be/xljm_Aox66Y

I just tried it and it works well. It draws your eyes to the contact point on the OB and forms a clean visualization line on the shaft edge extending to the OB , so you're visualizing the cut pretty well.

Ernesto told me he aims in a similar way. He said he aims the shaft at the contact point.

I think the main thing is to have these reference marks, then as Shane says it became automatic for him after a million shots.

cleary · Jan 13, 2012

Just tried it a little and it works great. Im not sure how you figure out nearly straight in shots or thin cut shots. Both of which didn't seem to line up with an edge. But for most cut shots, this seems to work real well.

champ2107 · Jan 13, 2012

cleary said:
Just tried it a little and it works great. Im not sure how you figure out nearly straight in shots or thin cut shots. Both of which didn't seem to line up with an edge. But for most cut shots, this seems to work real well.

i wouldn't doubt he does a visual of inside edge cb to outside edge ob for thin cuts, kinda like on your 90/90 video?

cleary · Jan 13, 2012

champ2107 said:
i wouldn't doubt he does a visual of inside edge cb to outside edge ob for thin cuts, kinda like on your 90/90 video?

hmmm maybe. I just tried it on my kitchen table with a beach towel, pillows and a cup for a pocket LOL. If you can pocket a ball like that, it works! I'm not able to get to a pool room very often. Pool rooms need daycares built in!

I'll have to experiment with it on a real table.

JCIN · Jan 13, 2012

cleary said:
hmmm maybe. I just tried it on my kitchen table with a beach towel, pillows and a cup for a pocket LOL. If you can pocket a ball like that, it works! I'm not able to get to a pool room very often. Pool rooms need daycares built in!

I'll have to experiment with it on a real table.

Mrs. Big Tony walks in.

See's Big Tony playing pool on the dining room table with two cue balls and the contents of her linen closet.

Shakes head.

Walks out.

TAR Podcast #8 - Shane - Fransisco - Shane Talks About His Aiming Method

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