That table had the world's best very frustrated. Do you think Shane and Busty prefer the difficulty of it or might it be a hair too tough? Please vote not based upon what YOU like, but what you think is best for the purpose that TAR uses it for.
The new TAR table - What do you think of it?
- Thread starter KoolKat9Lives
- Start date
Table
I think that Pros prefer a tough table and they don't want anything that plays too easy. However, with that being said, I think the table is playing too tough to make it really entertaining. I am enjoying the match, but I would enjoy it even more if these guys were playing wide open and running 4 and 5 packs versus letting the table dictate the game.
Just my opinion...
dakota
I think that Pros prefer a tough table and they don't want anything that plays too easy. However, with that being said, I think the table is playing too tough to make it really entertaining. I am enjoying the match, but I would enjoy it even more if these guys were playing wide open and running 4 and 5 packs versus letting the table dictate the game.
Just my opinion...
dakota
The ultra tight pockets take the excitement out of it for me. I would rather see a 6 pack or more with some brilliant displays of firepower than a rotation game played like one pocket. Thinking of the future growth in audience, I would assert that the masses would rather watch something they are impressed by (running multiple tacks) vs watching the best players in the world appear to miss a lot of shots and to the uneducated (in pool) look like an APA 3.
I also think it's playing a little too tough. Open them corners up another 1/4"
I'm a little torn. It's borderline IMO. I appreciate the great safety battles we get to watch and am soaking up the knowledge as to when to duck and how to duck. But it does not look like they are enjoying themselves.
It seems when one or the other starts to get some confidence and rhythm, and let their stroke out a bit, they get bit in the arse and retreat back to a more defensive strategy.
These guys have two of the best strokes in the universe but yet can't let loose near as much as usual. Maybe they just had a difficult row of it last night and tonight they will get a better comfort level.
It seems when one or the other starts to get some confidence and rhythm, and let their stroke out a bit, they get bit in the arse and retreat back to a more defensive strategy.
These guys have two of the best strokes in the universe but yet can't let loose near as much as usual. Maybe they just had a difficult row of it last night and tonight they will get a better comfort level.
I've always preferred watching multiple racks being run. I've seen local players run 2 or 3 packs, and I'm sure each of us has run at least 1 rack of 9 ball or 10 ball...so it really isn't all that impressive. The pockets are only tight for the players. The viewers can't get a real appreciation of how tight the pockets are, so any 'difficulties' are contrived in our minds.
As long as the races are long (and btw, I still prefer the race to 100 fwiw), the tightness of the pockets will have little influence on the ultimate outcome, so why not let them string together 10 packs...we'll see more offense, and less ducking.
I will likely be the ONLY one advocating this, but I would like to see rotation games played on 5" pockets, non-rotation on 4.5" pockets, and strategic games (one pocket) played on 4" pockets.
As long as the races are long (and btw, I still prefer the race to 100 fwiw), the tightness of the pockets will have little influence on the ultimate outcome, so why not let them string together 10 packs...we'll see more offense, and less ducking.
I will likely be the ONLY one advocating this, but I would like to see rotation games played on 5" pockets, non-rotation on 4.5" pockets, and strategic games (one pocket) played on 4" pockets.
I voted 'too tough'.
It's actually easier to play safe on a tight table....
...long shot down the rail and whitey near the end rail = safety...
...this aint snooker.
I would like to see pool tables for pro events with 4.5 inch pockets....
...that's 4.5 inches AT THE FALL.....snooker pockets are measured
this way and it makes sense to me.
I've seen a lot of pockets that are called 4.5 that are actually under
4.25 at the fall.
I like keeping pool dangerous....IF YOU MISS, YOU LOSE
It's actually easier to play safe on a tight table....
...long shot down the rail and whitey near the end rail = safety...
...this aint snooker.
I would like to see pool tables for pro events with 4.5 inch pockets....
...that's 4.5 inches AT THE FALL.....snooker pockets are measured
this way and it makes sense to me.
I've seen a lot of pockets that are called 4.5 that are actually under
4.25 at the fall.
I like keeping pool dangerous....IF YOU MISS, YOU LOSE
I think it's perfect right now (with the new cloth on it) but it may become too difficult once the cloth breaks in. I don't enjoy watching as much when a world class player can't get out when the balls are wide open. I enjoy safety play, but 15 minute racks start to wear on everyone...
I'd like to see it softened up a bit to bring more of the offensive power back to bear. The safety play will always be there, but I like seeing them use it as an offensive weapon rather than holding onto your ass all the time. When a safety that they would normally consider a bad attempt - say you leak out of the shade by 8 inches - is still quite safe due entirely to the nature of the table, then I think you've actually denigrated the level of skill demanded. And I hate that the 2 way shots have been nearly eliminated from so much of what you see... There's an insight to the pro approach mentality that's lost in the shuffle.
The internet streaming, and the state (read dearth) of widespread exposure for pool, make what's going on with TAR a different animal & a more pointedly targeted audience. Thank goodness for TAR. It's always kinda puzzled me, though, that so many seem to feel making the equipment so tough as to make the world's best look "pedestrian" could be a productive marketing path for the pro product. Of course, I do understand the pros want tougher equipment & races to take more "chance" out of the limited paying environs.
I really like pt109's comment...
I don't have to be sold on the difficulty of what these guys are doing, I get it, but I like to see them kept dangerous from any mistake.
The internet streaming, and the state (read dearth) of widespread exposure for pool, make what's going on with TAR a different animal & a more pointedly targeted audience. Thank goodness for TAR. It's always kinda puzzled me, though, that so many seem to feel making the equipment so tough as to make the world's best look "pedestrian" could be a productive marketing path for the pro product. Of course, I do understand the pros want tougher equipment & races to take more "chance" out of the limited paying environs.
I really like pt109's comment...
I don't have to be sold on the difficulty of what these guys are doing, I get it, but I like to see them kept dangerous from any mistake.
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I agree with everyone here.
But.....
Just look around at all the posts over the last couple years asking for tight pockets. This is what tight pockets look like.
Just to really make your head bug out an ABP rep told Mark Griffin they want 4" or smaller pockets on tournament tables. Thats an 1/8" tighter than ours.
Everyone talks about 4" pockets but I really dont think that many people know what REAL tight pockets do to the game. This table is playing soft compared to what it will be like after another 100 hours of play or so. Theres a good chance we'll change it.
But.....
Just look around at all the posts over the last couple years asking for tight pockets. This is what tight pockets look like.
Just to really make your head bug out an ABP rep told Mark Griffin they want 4" or smaller pockets on tournament tables. Thats an 1/8" tighter than ours.
Everyone talks about 4" pockets but I really dont think that many people know what REAL tight pockets do to the game. This table is playing soft compared to what it will be like after another 100 hours of play or so. Theres a good chance we'll change it.
Justin, I really like the fact that you and Mark Griffin are involved in this game....you give us feedback.
I feel that players should have a limited say about playing conditions....
..they tend to have private and petty agendas...and their selfishness
hurts themselves.
In Canada, back in the 80's, we had at least 100 snooker players that
were world class or close. We played on Brunswicks with 3.5 or larger
with a smaller shelf. British-style tables became the fad with longer
shelves and heavier cloth...the players were saying "This is a man's
table."
Well, now you need a search party to find a snooker table and we have
no players competing at a world class level.
regards
pt..<...who has won a few bucks playing on tight tables but has never
played on tight tables for pleasure
The table is playing loose now
I understand why the players want tighter pockets, so a ball that is missed doesn't end up going in, like at the Mosconi cup.
The problem is having these guys play on brand new cloth all the time, it is very very slippery compared to how the table is going to play a month from now.
The happy medium on a 9 foot table is somewhere between 4-1/2 pro-cut and this table at 4-1/4. The exact combination of pocket size and the age of the cloth will determine the best playing table.
I think when this table wears in, no one will want to play rotation on it.
As a table mechanic, I think the future of pro pool is in the 10 foot table, especially these matches. Keep the pockets the same as all of the rest of us are playing on @ 4-1/2 pro cut, just increase the size of the table.
then only the top players will be scoring in packages
That will definitely seperate the pros from the wannnabees.
I think 4-1/2 pockets for everyone, your skills will determine what size of tables you can get out on.
Thanks Justin for another world-class event @ TAR
Gordon Graham
Las Vegas
425-275-8255
I understand why the players want tighter pockets, so a ball that is missed doesn't end up going in, like at the Mosconi cup.
The problem is having these guys play on brand new cloth all the time, it is very very slippery compared to how the table is going to play a month from now.
The happy medium on a 9 foot table is somewhere between 4-1/2 pro-cut and this table at 4-1/4. The exact combination of pocket size and the age of the cloth will determine the best playing table.
I think when this table wears in, no one will want to play rotation on it.
As a table mechanic, I think the future of pro pool is in the 10 foot table, especially these matches. Keep the pockets the same as all of the rest of us are playing on @ 4-1/2 pro cut, just increase the size of the table.
then only the top players will be scoring in packages
That will definitely seperate the pros from the wannnabees.
I think 4-1/2 pockets for everyone, your skills will determine what size of tables you can get out on.
Thanks Justin for another world-class event @ TAR
Gordon Graham
Las Vegas
425-275-8255
Isn't the purposes that TAR uses the table for exactly the same as the personal opinions of each respondent in the poll and this thread? These are TAR's target market after all. The end goal of TAR is not ulimately to test players' skill in combat, but to sell viewership and to make money. To that end, who really cares what equipment the players want? The only thing that will matter is whether or not the viewers like what they see and whether or not the viewing base will increase. Yes, TAR are gambling matches. But let's face it, SVB and Busty are playing for $10 k. Sad to say, but that is chump change for an event like this, imo. Far better to tap into the collective $ of a growing fan base...
I really like the table, perfect one pocket table and great for the top players to play any game on. I think these players want the guy they are playing to "make" the ball, there are times like the Mosconi Cup where players hit the ball bad and it goes anyway because the pockets are huge. It is more exciting to me because even an open table is not a sure thing, on the 4.5 or bigger pockets its almost guaranteed they are out. Watching 9 ball at tournaments has no interest to me really because of the fact its too easy for the top players, they run out 99% of the wide open tables if they have a shot. 10 ball is a much better game but the tight pockets makes it even better.
With all that being said I think its better for tournaments to have big pockets, tight pockets would slow the tournament down I believe and would be bad for TV. Since we have no TV then maybe the pockets should be tighter for us fans to really get a sweat out of each rack and players performing at a high level on tough equipment. I play on 4 inch to 4 1/4 inch pocket regularly and you really need to focus and bare down on the shots, not a fan of play rotation pool on it as I do not play to these guys level, I like 4.5 for that game when I play it, perfect size.
With all that being said I think its better for tournaments to have big pockets, tight pockets would slow the tournament down I believe and would be bad for TV. Since we have no TV then maybe the pockets should be tighter for us fans to really get a sweat out of each rack and players performing at a high level on tough equipment. I play on 4 inch to 4 1/4 inch pocket regularly and you really need to focus and bare down on the shots, not a fan of play rotation pool on it as I do not play to these guys level, I like 4.5 for that game when I play it, perfect size.
Just a rhetorical question, but aren't two players of comprable skill required to "really work at it" to beat each other regardless of the table? Would 3.5" pockets be better? How about 6" pockets? Hell, if it's just a matter of cueing skill, why not just remove the pockets all together and have them play 3 cushion?
To me, pool is way more than just potting balls. It's about cue ball patterns, bank shots, cheating pockets for elegant shape. I worry that reducing the game to potting skill alone reduces some of the beauty of the game, at least in my opinion.
To my thinking, the Diamond Pro table with it's deep shelves offer a fair challenge to pros and a nice balance between offering up options for positional play, but yet require potting accuracy.
Note, I've not voted in this poll, as I've not been able to tune into this TAR match, but I'll probably tune in this evening and I'll see what it's like then.