Removing an Old Ferrule
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Removing an Old Ferrule - 01-28-2012, 04:43 PM

This may seem like a trivial question to cuemakers, but since I'm not a cuemaker I can't manage to figure out how you would go about removing the old ferrule when a customer asks you to replace it. I'm just very curious...
  
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01-28-2012, 05:25 PM

Cut it off with your lathe tooling.


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01-28-2012, 07:33 PM

What about the threads on the tenon?
  
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01-28-2012, 07:56 PM

Take the ferrule down in small passes.
If the tenon is threaded you will be able to see the threads as you get close to depth.
When you can see the top of the threads, the rest of the old ferrule usually breaks out all on its own.
Re cut the threads and install the new ferrule.
At least that's how I do it


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01-28-2012, 08:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuejo View Post
Take the ferrule down in small passes.
If the tenon is threaded you will be able to see the threads as you get close to depth.
When you can see the top of the threads, the rest of the old ferrule usually breaks out all on its own.
Re cut the threads and install the new ferrule.
At least that's how I do it
I agree with what Cuejo said and if you can't get the threads to clean up you will have to replace the tenon.


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01-28-2012, 11:18 PM

Not all tenons are threaded, nor do they need to be.
I can see no reason to replace a tenon unless it's broke.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
KJ
  
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01-29-2012, 02:07 AM

IF it has wood glue, you can friction heat the ferrule and the glue will melt.


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01-29-2012, 06:59 AM

I have also had success using a heat gun to apply heat directly to the ferrule and you can just twist it off.....doesn't take much heat at all
  
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01-29-2012, 07:14 AM

Sometimes you can get away with friction heat like joey said. I use a piece of thick leather to build up friction and heat it up. I run the lathe in reverse when doing that and sometimes the ferrule will screw right off once the glue is heated enough. I also have a small butane torch, that if used carefully, sometimes works when the friction method does not, but have to be careful with those as they can do some damage if not used correctly.

If those both fail to loosen the glue, then cutting them off is the last method in line. Sometimes during cutting they will come loose, but usually you have to do as already mentioned, and take It down to the threads. Once there, and with any luck, the pieces in the threads can be picked and pulled out. Sometimes they clean up so well that nothing is needed and other times you have to chase the threads to clean them out better.

You shouldn't have to replace the tenon in most situations, but a weak tenon can be twisted off very easily if not careful while removing the ferrule. It's rare, that if done properly this would happen, but It can happen. Especially when the glue on the lower threads is loose, but the glue on the upper threads ( near the face area) does not break loose. If the tenon is weak, It can be easily twisted right off while trying to get the ferrule loose, so have to be careful and aware of what's going on. After 1000's of ferrule jobs, You pretty much see This coming ahead of time though. I've seen tenons that were pretty much already broken before doing anything, and they were just barely holding together, so can be tuff to get those ferrules off without finishing off tenon. I always try to get them off clean though, and then I can get a good look, and evaluate whether I'm better off taking the tenon off, and installing a new one before snapping It.

As a repairman the last thing You want is to be the sole cause of the tenon breaking, or even a partial cause for that matter, so for this reason I try to avoid It at all costs, even when I know the tenon is weak to begin with, and It's probably inevitable that It will need replaced, and even when I get the ferrule off clean.

Tenon replacement is an extra charge, so If I suspect the the tenon of being weak, but It's not snapped yet, so it could technically be glued with the ferrule, and the glue may help strengthen It, so that It does not completely snap, then I contact the customer with My evaluation, and let them decide. Some people may want to take their chances that the glue is enough, while others may opt to replace the tenon while Your in there working on It. Any such possibility of this should easily be within the 1-5% range out of a hundred or more ferrule jobs. It's really a very small percentage that this issue even comes up, without It being obvious to the customer in the first place, as in a case of a ferrule that is broken off already when you first get It for repair. The fact though still remains that some things go unnoticed, and are hard to see until They are being worked on.


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Removing an Old Ferrule
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Removing an Old Ferrule - 01-29-2012, 08:19 AM

It can be done using several methods,and if you plan on doing it regularly esp on cues you've never seen before,you really need SEVERAL tools to do it right.

A QUALITY pair of small adjustable pliers like Knipex Cobras,or Channel-Lock.

My Knipex have a set of removeable guards on them so they can be used for normal things like the tailstock clamping nut on my lathe,or more importantly to the subject at hand,can be used with 1/4 thick rubber pads for grip for removing the ferrule,or screwing it on,which may need to be done REPEATEDLY if you prefer to fine-tune your fit.

A "flexible" measuring instrument you trust,meaning you can use it several ways.

You'll need to measure the tenon length,which CAN be done with a ruler,and wouldn't matter in a situation where the tenon is unthreaded and uncapped,because you can always face it off.

In a slightly more complicated scenario,you want to use a capped but unthreaded ferrule,you'll need to measure how deep your drilled hole is,and to go another step you'll REALLY need to measure the depth of a hole that is TAPPED.

This can be done with the rod on the back of most calipers,a depth mic,or if you can find one narrow enough,a ruler once again.

A 0-1" mic,preferably vernier or digital.

The most common thread size used for this is 5/16-18. You'll need a 3 piece set of these taps,plug,taper,and bottoming. I've added a 4th to mine,a modded bottoming tap ground flat on the end.

I have an old,cracked ivory ferrule that I use as a testing standard. You can make one of these yourself,or just buy a pre-tapped blank.

For this thread specifically,you"ll need an F drill bit which is .257,and also a true 1/4 drill bit. If you have to thread the tenon using one of the compression dies,you'll start with a .280 diameter or so. Using the 1/4 drill gives you a little wiggle room to tighten up the thread fit,the F drill has been the universal drill bit for a 5/16-18 for close to 100 years.

Having to fabricate the ferrule to something out of the norm will also require other sized drill bits,or a boring bar small enough to go into a 1/4 inch hole,and maybe up to 1 1/4" deep.

You'll also at some point need both metric and standard thread pitch gages so you can figure out how to re-attach the new ferrule,which you will have to fabricate.

A good small file,for shaping the end of the tenon so it fits as close to the same shape of the bottom of the hole you drilled,so there is almost NO gap between the end of the tenon and the bottom of the hole,and if there is,a small enough gap that it can be filled with glue so completely that even if it gets got,the glue doesn't break down and start rattling inside.

This can also be done with your regular,or a specific lathe cutter as well.

GOOD glues,and several kinds.

You'll need a wood glue,a slow and a fast setting epoxy,along with CA glue.

CA glues can be used to lock a ferrule down while the epoxy in setting inside,it can be used to harden and build up the tenon for compression threading,and the wood glue and both epoxy types can be used for various materials and to solve issues with fitting.

Extra maple,for tenons,in case it was already broken or it comes apart while removing the ferrule. You can use old,scrapped shaft wood,buy pre-cut dowels,or a whole dowel rod.

Then you have to add a wide range of different materials,to satisfy customer demands on playability,cost,moral/ethical issues with ivory,as well as to improve on what it came with,or keeping what it came with as close as possible to identical to original,if not identical.

All this without going into stuff like having to use dental picks for digging trash out of threads,etc.

I'll quit flexing my knowledge muscle now ,Tommy D.


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02-03-2012, 07:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuejo View Post
Take the ferrule down in small passes.
If the tenon is threaded you will be able to see the threads as you get close to depth.
When you can see the top of the threads, the rest of the old ferrule usually breaks out all on its own.
Re cut the threads and install the new ferrule.
At least that's how I do it
What he says.





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