V Points

R

randywhite30

Banned
Again I'm very new to this, I appologize if my questions seem a little simple.
I've been trying to figure out how V Points are made, I know how the slot is cut but how are the points made, whats the best way to do it? I have training videos coming but I'm getting antsy on the waiting part.
 
Perfectly square edged wood glued into a v-groove. That really is all there is to it. Now colored veneers added would bring a whole new discussion to the board. Seeing it done on a DVD is the way to go then modify those methods to fit your style and equipment.
 
cueman said:
Perfectly square edged wood glued into a v-groove. That really is all there is to it. Now colored veneers added would bring a whole new discussion to the board. Seeing it done on a DVD is the way to go then modify those methods to fit your style and equipment.
Click to expand...

Sounds easy enough. Square piece of would in the V Grove then use the router to make it flush with the rest of the butt.
 
Randy, "antsy" and cue making together can be an expensive combination. Patience is a virtue, which is seldom found in a new cue maker.
 
stratshutr said:
It's important to remember "Square". Perfectly square!!!
Click to expand...

Um, not to put too sharp a point on it (pun intended), but "square" point wood ("prongs") only applies if your groove is ALSO square. I have a number of V-groovers that are custom ground to angles other than 90*, with corresponding jigs allowing me to machine matching angles on the prong pieces.

Even on traditional 4-point cues, "square" (that is, a perfect 90* angle) is not the most important issue; perfectly matched angles between the groover and the prong piece is what matters. I know one very highly regarded cuemaker whose V-groover was factory mis-ground to about 92*. Appropriately, this guy built all their other jigs and tooling around that angle, and continue to put out perfect, air-tight points to this day. The groover is sharpened "in house", and replacement groovers (every few years) are ground to match that original 92*.

My advice is to start with a groover you can reliably replace (or have sharpened) when it dulls. If it's a perfect 90* - the best-case scenario - then you did great. However, if it's off angle a little bit, just experiment with the rest of the system until you get a perfect [repeatable] fit.

TW
 
Last edited:
tsp&b said:
Randy, "antsy" and cue making together can be an expensive combination. Patience is a virtue, which is seldom found in a new cue maker.
Click to expand...

I understand fully. I bought a Cue Lathe and Taper Shaper from ELBeau last week I am hoping that it ships tomorrow. I cant wait, I've been doing tip, ferrules, and tenon replacement for a number of years, but I've never made a cue this is the first time I've had enough money to get the lathe, and also buy the parts to make the cue. I'm very excited and have a hard time not calling ElBeau and seeing if he has shipped my lathe yet. He told me Monday, so I'll wait till Tuesday before I start calling. Also makes me a little nervous buying something off this forum so its hard not to think about it.
 
You got a lucky buy, I was on deck next up had you not done the buy.:smile:

If I could let me give you some advice. Before points you have to be able to drill bore and tap so the shaft fits perfect around forearm. You must also do same from forearm to handle.

If you are not perfect your points will be scattered heights (yes you can bring them back in, but that is another discussion.

Might I suggest you do some Merry Widows to perfect your centering and faceing off?

If you already have this down pat forget this answer, just trying to help a newbie not waste some wood he might be kicking himself in the butt for later. Best of luck to you.
 
Thomas Wayne said:


Um, not to put too sharp a point on it (pun intended), but "square" point wood ("prongs) only applies if your groove is ALSO square. I have a number of V-groovers that are custom ground to angles other than 90*, with corresponding jigs allowing me to machine matching angles on the prong pieces.

Even on traditional 4-point cues, "square" (that is, a perfect 90* angle) is not the most important issue; perfectly matched angles between the groover and the prong piece is what matters. I know one very highly regarded cuemaker whose V-groover was factory mis-ground to about 92*. Appropriately, this guy built all their other jigs and tooling around that angle, and continue to put out perfect, air-tight points to this day. The groover is sharpened "in house", and replacement groovers (every few years) are ground to match that original 92*.

My advice is to start with a groover you can reliably replace (or have sharpened) when it dulls. If it's a perfect 90* - the best-case scenario - then you did great. However, if it's off angle a little bit, just experiment with the rest of the system until you get a perfect [repeatable] fit.

TW
Click to expand...

Who was it that used 100* cutters so that he could make his points converge and still have wood at the center?
 
Lexicologist71 said:
Who was it that used 100* cutters so that he could make his points converge and still have wood at the center?
Click to expand...

Some version of that has been done by a few guys I know of. Another consideration is that 5-point fronts and 6-point fronts - if cut with a standard ~90* groover - have some meat of the forearm wood in the center as well.

It might be noted that anything other than an exact 90* set-up can make a bridged-point design a bit more difficult.

TW
 
I will try to remember that if I ever step up to that build. I still need to glue my veneers together, and I've had them for 6 months. Part chicken, part too busy on 2nd shift. On the plus side, I just got a call about a first shift job.
 
randywhite30 said:
I cant wait, I've been doing tip, ferrules, and tenon replacement for a number of years, but I've never made a cue this is the first time I've had enough money to get the lathe, and also buy the parts to make the cue.
Click to expand...

Wow. Haven't we come a long way in three weeks? You tell me you just wanted to help out at a tournament, not compete with me and today we're making cues. Funny how that works, huh? Lying to me is not a good way to start your endeavours....:angry:
 
randywhite30 said:
I understand fully. I bought a Cue Lathe and Taper Shaper from ELBeau last week I am hoping that it ships tomorrow. I cant wait, I've been doing tip, ferrules, and tenon replacement for a number of years, but I've never made a cue this is the first time I've had enough money to get the lathe, and also buy the parts to make the cue. [...]
Click to expand...

If you're "buying the parts" you're NOT "making" the cue - you're assembling the cue. There's a difference, and it is significant.

So maybe wait another few weeks before you start calling yourself a "cuemaker". Or better yet, be building your own "parts" and actually get good at it first...

TW<----- probably pissing in the wind here, but have to at least try...
 
I have a ton of equipment, wood, tooling etc and have been repairing for a couple or three years. I haven't even started building yet, just contemplating it.

Thats not to say just because I decided to do it this way, that everyone should be the same. I just feel that when the time is right, it will happen naturally for me.

So many thing to learn before you can call yourself a cue maker.

If I can't be a decent repairman first, I don't believe that my cues will be anything but mediocre, if even that.
 
With all due respect I only partialy understand. Where does it start and where does it end? Is buying Taps for a radial pin or buying the radial pin itself wrong?

I seem to remember a Hall Of Fame Cue Maker Bal something did a lot with Hoppe Butts and I think he bought some stuff off a guy from Spain or something.

I say this with humor as I myself have sinned.

In truth, where is the breaking rule from growing the tree yourself to gnawing on metal to make a mill to make a lathe building the computer to writing the dos programs to write macro calls to do G Codes to giving birth to an elephant to only use Ivory off baby dumbo as needed to make a cue.

There has to be a start and stop, was wondering where it was and who wrote the rules?

This could be the making of a great thread. Not screwing with anyone, we need history here.
 
TomHay said:
With all due respect I only partialy understand. Where does it start and where does it end? Is buying Taps for a radial pin or buying the radial pin itself wrong?

I seem to remember a Hall Of Fame Cue Maker Bal something did a lot with Hoppe Butts and I think he bought some stuff off a guy from Spain or something.

I say this with humor as I myself have sinned.

In truth, where is the breaking rule from growing the tree yourself to gnawing on metal to make a mill to make a lathe building the computer to writing the dos programs to write macro calls to do G Codes to giving birth to an elephant to only use Ivory off baby dumbo as needed to make a cue.

There has to be a start and stop, was wondering where it was and who wrote the rules?

This could be the making of a great thread. Not screwing with anyone, we need history here.
Click to expand...

If you order a cue from Billy Bob, can he build it from raw stock or will he have to buy parts from another cue maker in order to complete your cue as ordered? If he can do it in house, by himself, then IMO he's a cue maker. If he has to rely on somebody else to supply him with the components because he is incapable, then is he a real cue maker? Not in my opinion.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
I have a ton of equipment, wood, tooling etc and have been repairing for a couple or three years. I haven't even started building yet, just contemplating it.

Thats not to say just because I decided to do it this way, that everyone should be the same. I just feel that when the time is right, it will happen naturally for me.

So many thing to learn before you can call yourself a cue maker.

If I can't be a decent repairman first, I don't believe that my cues will be anything but mediocre, if even that.
Click to expand...

As it should be. I did repair for over 20 years before I started building. Repair work is still the bulk of my business and income. Most of the cues that I sell comes from people coming to my shop for repairs and seeing something that I was building for someone else and that got their nose open to order. I quit taking orders Feb of 2011 and have turned away around 75 orders since then. Turned down 4 orders in one day.

Dick
 
ratcues said:
Wow. Haven't we come a long way in three weeks? You tell me you just wanted to help out at a tournament, not compete with me and today we're making cues. Funny how that works, huh? Lying to me is not a good way to start your endeavours....:angry:
Click to expand...

It only started out me wanting to do tip repair but after I found out Rory Blackballed me I decide to take it another step further. And I plan to take it to the next level just to show him he wont and cant contol everything. I find those kind of tricks to be very juvenille.
 
randywhite30 said:
It only started out me wanting to do tip repair but after I found out Rory Blackballed me I decide to take it another step further. And I plan to take it to the next level just to show him he wont and cant control everything. I find those kind of tricks to be very juvenille.
Click to expand...


Presumably starting a business and trying to compete in someone else's market solely (you say) because he spited you is NOT "juvenile" in your eyes?

"Oh what a gift the good Lord gie us, to see ourselves as others see us..." [old sottish proverb]

TW
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top