Help with hole size when threading a ferrule

Step drill to .250 before tapping. Use at least two taps. Bottoming tap last.
The wood tenon should be around .281 if you use a die.
Unique's die is metal, not aluminum. It's the best I've seen.

DoubleD said:

Is your time worth nothing?

How long does it take you to drill and tap the billet to "save" this $1?

dld

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I get em in rods so I can thread some at 3/8 24.
Not everyone likes capped 5/16 18.

The standard drill bit for a 5/6-18 tap is a letter "G" drill. Google says that diameter is 0.2610 inches. You can buy these as a set by Irwin.

As Joey says, you will need two taps, one of them a bottom tap so you can cut the threads clean and at full diameter all the way to the cap on the ferrule.

If you prefer non-capped ferrules, then a single tap will suffice and simply tap all the way through.

My 2 cents,

Gary

GBCues said:

The standard drill bit for a 5/6-18 tap is a letter "G" drill. Google says that diameter is 0.2610 inches. You can buy these as a set by Irwin.

As Joey says, you will need two taps, one of them a bottom tap so you can cut the threads clean and at full diameter all the way to the cap on the ferrule.

If you prefer non-capped ferrules, then a single tap will suffice and simply tap all the way through.

My 2 cents,

Gary

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.261 hole would make that ferrule too loose if you use a die. The dies I've seen will not thread .312 tenons. You have to take them down to less than .285.

"My question is what size do I drill the hole in the solid ferrule before I run the 5/16x18 tap through."

5/16. Since you said "through", I'm guessing you're not doing a capped ferrule.
Why would you want to thread the tenon? Removing mtrl. isn't going to make it stronger.
Run your tap through the 5/16" hole and you'll still put some threads on the interior wall of the ferrule.
Once your epoxy hardens, those threads will lock the ferrule to the tenon.
A 3/8 tenon is becoming quite popular. Same procedure.

KJ

JoeyInCali said:

.261 hole would make that ferrule too loose if you use a die. The dies I've seen will not thread .312 tenons. You have to take them down to less than .285.

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Joey, I use a .295 tenon and have had good luck. To the OP step drill to .250 as Joey said.

Alan

A juma ferrule is 3.95 an inch drilled tapped.

Juma precut rod is 1.95 an inch.

Juma rod is .50 an inch in a 3 foot section.

5 secs to cut rod in inch or so depending on ferrule length.

30 secs to chuck in lathe.

15 secs to face.

4 mins to drill and tap.....

That is about 5 mins to save 3.50.....About 40.00 an hour....

The drill is a letter F

Well, I went back to check my original statement and found 5/16-18 drill and tap sets with both an "F" and a "G" drill - from the same company and the same part number!!:yikes:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7ADBS_enUS255&q=5/16-18+tap+drill&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=644&wrapid=tlif133298920779610&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14455733431942219707&sa=X&ei=Ms1zT-WYIISG2gWgpNTvDg&ved=0CGoQ8wIwAw#

and

http://www.acetoolonline.com/product-p/irw-80235.htm

I have to admit that in this second search, I found more references to the letter "F" drill than I did to the letter "G". My apologies if I steered you wrong.

Gary

DoubleD said:

A 5/16" tap will not thread a 5/16" hole. At all.

I like the rest of your suggestion.

dld

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Maybe you use different taps than I do.
My taps leave threads.

KJ

JT's cuerepair said:

I have always bought my ferrules already drilled and tapped. I have always found it easer and fast to get them already done. But as most of you know the cost of a solid ferrule is about $1.00 less then a drilled and tapped ferrule. In trying to save a buck or two these days I want to start doing my own. I have the standart tap size 5/16x18. My question is what size do I drill the hole in the solid ferrule before I run the 5/16x18 tap through. Also just wondering what you guys think about the tenon threader. From what I can see there are only two on the market, The one from porper and the one from unique. Just want to know if any of you guys like on over the other. Thanks in advance for any help you may give....

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If you are going to drill a hole use a 17/64th drill bit.

JT's cuerepair said:

I have always bought my ferrules already drilled and tapped. I have always found it easer and fast to get them already done. But as most of you know the cost of a solid ferrule is about $1.00 less then a drilled and tapped ferrule. In trying to save a buck or two these days I want to start doing my own. I have the standart tap size 5/16x18. My question is what size do I drill the hole in the solid ferrule before I run the 5/16x18 tap through. Also just wondering what you guys think about the tenon threader. From what I can see there are only two on the market, The one from porper and the one from unique. Just want to know if any of you guys like on over the other. Thanks in advance for any help you may give....

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To the OP. I am going to suggest that you go in your local tool machine supply shop. I would get a drill chart. And a drill and tap chart. As you can see many people do it different. I use the tenon threader from Atlas when I do a 5/16x18 ferrule. It works great. It has a hole on the other end from threading side to turn the tenon down to. I prefer 3/8x16 ferule these days.

GBCues said:

Well, I went back to check my original statement and found 5/16-18 drill and tap sets with both an "F" and a "G" drill - from the same company and the same part number!!:yikes:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7ADBS_enUS255&q=5/16-18+tap+drill&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=644&wrapid=tlif133298920779610&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14455733431942219707&sa=X&ei=Ms1zT-WYIISG2gWgpNTvDg&ved=0CGoQ8wIwAw#

and

http://www.acetoolonline.com/product-p/irw-80235.htm

I have to admit that in this second search, I found more references to the letter "F" drill than I did to the letter "G". My apologies if I steered you wrong.

Gary

Click to expand...

I have some notes that used to be posted on the Atlas site years ago, and they do indeed refer to 5/16-14 and 5/16-18 as using .252/.265 letters "F", "G" and "H" drills, I guess that does seem like a pretty wide gap in sizes, and I'm not sure which drills refer to which taps. I would imagine the smaller diameters with the 18 pitch, and the larger with the 14, but that's just a guess, and there's no reference to that part.

Although Using the unique threader I can get away with a G if I make the tenon a hair larger, and It will still lock down tight on the shoulder face for me (even when wet with glue), just have to be careful when threading the tenon, and do a little at a time, backing out, then blowing the chips out in between, but I often use a boring bar to get down into the mid .250's or so. The ferrule runs much truer being bored out as opposed to drilled anyhow, so I end up doing them that way most of the time.
I use the bore in the back of the tenon threader as a gauge to My final tenon size. Not very technical, but It works for me, as I have become a custom as to how snug a fit It takes to match whichever size bore I'm working with at the time.

I would repeat for the OP what has already been mentioned. I also start with a tapered tap, and finish up with a bottom tap when making capped ferrules. You can run into problems if Don't, not only the gap between the shaft face and the cap, but It can act like a wedge, and crack some ferrule materials if You don't follow up with the bottom tap.

Greg

Cue Crazy is on it,when using a compression die you can most certainly use the drill size,or the bored hole size to "fit" the tenon.

If you were tapping steel,you'd follow the tap drill chart 100% or risk breaking the tap off in the part.

In school,the tap drill chart in the tool crib had drill sized based on 50,63,or 75% thread engagement.

After modding my Atlas tenon threader (the aluminum version),I can go ahead and make the threads with the tenon at .295,provided it was unthreaded to start. It may not seem like much considering the difference is only .0075 per side,but it makes a difference once you add glue to the equation.

If the tenon had threads,such as a ferrule replacement,and a thinner than normal tenon (such as cutting it to .265 and spinning the ferrule on :shakehead I've used CA and kicker and went back over the threads and actually built them up using the threader.

I like the fit snug if at all possible,but not so tight it "squeaks" or locks down tight and causes you to twist the tenon off while backing it off.

Also keep in mind,a true (.3125) 5/16-18 has .036 PER SIDE thread depth,making the Minor diameter .2405 after full thread depth.

.002 under on Major and Minor gives you 100% guaranteed fit with a store-bought nut. Tommy D.

Drill charts are great, but they are a reference point for working with metal. Your working with plastics, ivory and wood for ferrules. Also most using the tenon threaders are using a .280 to .285 tenon.

To OP,
Hey Jack,
when your ready, Take a drive down and I'll show you.

GBCues said:

Well, I went back to check my original statement and found 5/16-18 drill and tap sets with both an "F" and a "G" drill - from the same company and the same part number!!:yikes:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&rlz=1I7ADBS_enUS255&q=5/16-18+tap+drill&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=644&wrapid=tlif133298920779610&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=14455733431942219707&sa=X&ei=Ms1zT-WYIISG2gWgpNTvDg&ved=0CGoQ8wIwAw#

and

http://www.acetoolonline.com/product-p/irw-80235.htm

I have to admit that in this second search, I found more references to the letter "F" drill than I did to the letter "G". My apologies if I steered you wrong.

Gary

Click to expand...

Throw away the chart as Mike suggested.
Simple solution really is grab a .250 drill and see if it fits the usual threaded and capped ferrules. You will find out it fits snug .
Mock up a few tenons and see how that compression die work.

This is where live threading has some advantage when threading for a threaded and capped ferrule.
Let's take a 5/16 18 1" capped ferrule for example.
Turn down a 5/16 tenon 1" long.
At the tip turn down 3/16 long to .250".
Hit that .250 pilot with the threader.
Thread in until you hit the top of the alignment shoulder ( most are around .187-.200 long. )
Face off that .250 pilot.
Fit the ferrule.
If it's too tight, turn down some of the threaded portion.
The bottom of the threads should be fine b/c the threader did hit that .250"
pilot.
If the tenon is too long, just file a bullet nose on the tip.
Caps are usually 3/16 to .250 thick. Caliper that hole.

JT's cuerepair said:

Thats awesome Mike, Thank you so much. There is nothing better then having a good friend, Even better when they are a master cue builder willing to help another person. I'm out of work for a month or two now but I have to hang around the house for a few days. I have a new lathe and a bunch of things coming in any day now. Whats the best time for you Morning , afternoon, night, Any special day.... PM me your address and Phone # and I will give you a call and we can set something up.

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I'm not a master anything, just a hermit who works in his basement.
401-475-7030, if you call, your number better be listed, I don't answer Private calls. Only one person complained so far, He said, I like my privacy, My reply, NO PROBLEM< Don't call.
15 Edward street
N.Providence R.I.