IPT Travel and lodging expenses

juegabillar · Mar 7, 2006

Travel and lodging expenses are beginning to pile-up for players that have not qualified for the last remaining spots...

For the upcoming Tour, the selected venues are not "cheap" and the players will be left "gambling" on the thought of staying at the venue or "risking it all" if they are called and not present.

My estimates are that some players may be 6 to 12 thousand dollars in the hole. Those who played in only one event could be 3 thousand or more in the hole.

Not one cent in return for their efforts.

Their backers are probably not too happy with the situation. Some players have not made it to the qualifiers 'cause their backers are not "seeing" what would be "their" own benefit. Some of the players that will get some "green" may owe it all when they finally see their "first paycheck."

Many others will have no choice but to patiently wait for their next "good" opportunity....and there is no guarantee they will make any money....

Hmmmmm,..........I'm still not liking this "IPT" venture.......

JAM · Mar 8, 2006

As they say in business, sometimes it takes money to make money.

The expenses will be a stumbling block for my household, I must admit. However, the IPT members I have spoken to are all chomping at the bit to receive this GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to compete for a $2-million purse. It is truly extraordinary.

Money payouts pale in comparison to the expenditures of tournaments in recent times. This has been the BIGGEST stumbling block on the tournament trail TODAY as I know it. Making expenses is darn near impossible unless you come in third or fourth place.

Now the IPT has created a platform in which players can play REAL POOL on a level playing field with REAL RULES and actually earn REAL MONEY.

I am happy that the IPT is providing first-class locations for the events. It will be tough going in the beginning for the IPT members, but when the monies start rolling in, I am hopeful that the players will reap the benefits and enjoy earning not only a decent wage, but one which is comensurate with their talent. The one thing that I am hoping the IPT will change is that the sport will FINALLY get a little respect. To date, its toughest critics have come from within its own culture. Now is the time for all good pool players to come to the aid of their sport. It's show time.

JAM

spadevil · Mar 8, 2006

A very good reply JAM.

Snapshot9 · Mar 8, 2006

Somehow ...

I fail to see why the IPT is at fault. They can either cut it or not in the qualifiers, and MOST will not. They have their chances, noone twisted their arm to try out, they knew it would cost quite a bit going in, they are in control of their own fate.

You think Golf or tennis players that don't make the tour feel the tour OWES
them something.

And if you don't like the odds or the expense involved on the tour, then simply don't do it. Even if you don't win a match, you still get 13k, and
100k in 2007. When are people going to realize that KT will have the tour his way, and so far, it is the best thing to ever come along for Pro Pool players.

macguy · Mar 8, 2006

JAM said:
As they say in business, sometimes it takes money to make money.

The expenses will be a stumbling block for my household, I must admit. However, the IPT members I have spoken to are all chomping at the bit to receive this GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to compete for a $2-million purse. It is truly extraordinary.

Money payouts pale in comparison to the expenditures of tournaments in recent times. This has been the BIGGEST stumbling block on the tournament trail TODAY as I know it. Making expenses is darn near impossible unless you come in third or fourth place.

Now the IPT has created a platform in which players can play REAL POOL on a level playing field with REAL RULES and actually earn REAL MONEY.

I am happy that the IPT is providing first-class locations for the events. It will be tough going in the beginning for the IPT members, but when the monies start rolling in, I am hopeful that the players will reap the benefits and enjoy earning not only a decent wage, but one which is comensurate with their talent. The one thing that I am hoping the IPT will change is that the sport will FINALLY get a little respect. To date, its toughest critics have come from within its own culture. Now is the time for all good pool players to come to the aid of their sport. It's show time.

JAM

That may be true but the problem is the way this thing was set up in the first place. They asked for people to submit their names and it looks like they were practically picked them out of a hat. Many of these people can't beat any body and have no business on a pro tour, they are not remotely professional players. Some are has-beens who we know don't have a nickel and it will be embarrassing to see them stumbling around not able to beat anybody, trying to borrow money to cover their expenses. These people will without a doubt not be on the tour the second year. It is in no way an opportunity for them just possibly a big expense and one, I am sure, some can't afford. One guy wrote a while back how he could not afford all the extra cost to practice. I doubt this is what they thought it would be when they sent in their names. It makes huge demands on their lives and lets just hope some weren't stupid enough to maybe even quit a job to do this. Wouldn't this have been great if it was just open tournaments with real professionals and not a mix of pros and novelty acts.

pillage6 · Mar 8, 2006

Do you think the fact that they picked random people spurred more people to try and qualify for the IPT? Do you think they didn't think the same thing and do it on purpose?

This is a business, it was a business decision and they made more money because of it. How many people would try to qualify if the original 150 players were the best 150 in the world? I guarantee you it would dissuade a lot of people from trying to qualify. But since 60 (arbitrary number) are beatable EVERYONE that can run a few racks is going to try and qualify, regardless of the price.

JAM · Mar 8, 2006

I know the topic of the initial player selection will continue to be debated, the pros and cons, the likes and dislikes, the worthy and not-so-worthy ones. However, at this juncture, it is truly water under the bridge and a done deal.

As an American railbird, I will be the first to admit that I did not recognize some of the names on the IPT list because I am not aware of many of our international brethren of players. After all, this is the INTERNATIONAL Pool Tour, and I think there currently exists a very diversified group, one which is very representative, globally speaking.

At the recent DCC, Jason Miller enjoyed a sweet success, and now he finds himself on the cover of pool magazines and giving interviews to newspapers. Those in his neck of the woods knew how strong a player he is, but Jason Miller hasn't had the opportunities to compete on an international scale because he frequented a REGIONAL tournament trail. However, he will be a formidable opponent on the IPT.

And I think it's gotta be said that that infamous 9-ball break that has elevated many a pool player in times gone by is NOT going to be a factor on this tour. There's a little more to the game of 8-ball than racking and breaking strategies. This truly is REAL POOL with no room for rack riggers and break mechanics, and if you think they do not exist, you are living in a dream world. I saw one American icon at an event rack his own in a winners-rack format and make the EXACT SAME wing ball eight times in a row on his break. It was sickening.

Meanwhile, back to the topic of the thread, if the IPT does anything at all for this sport, it will definitely bring the cream of the crop out into the open. The travel and lodging expenses, unfortunately, are a part of doing business in this pool world, but at least with the IPT, there's something to reach for. The name-brands and super stars are veteran tournament soldiers and comfortable with the environment, but with this kind of money on the line, there will be a new breed of pool player on the horizon, and I can't wait to see how it unfolds. So, hang onto your hats, folks, and...

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

You tell him, Kid!

JAM

macguy · Mar 8, 2006

JAM said:
I know the topic of the initial player selection will continue to be debated, the pros and cons, the likes and dislikes, the worthy and not-so-worthy ones. However, at this juncture, it is truly water under the bridge and a done deal.

As an American railbird, I will be the first to admit that I did not recognize some of the names on the IPT list because I am not aware of many of our international brethren of players. After all, this is the INTERNATIONAL Pool Tour, and I think there currently exists a very diversified group, one which is very representative, globally speaking.

At the recent DCC, Jason Miller enjoyed a sweet success, and now he finds himself on the cover of pool magazines and giving interviews to newspapers. Those in his neck of the woods knew how strong a player he is, but Jason Miller hasn't had the opportunities to compete on an international scale because he frequented a REGIONAL tournament trail. However, he will be a formidable opponent on the IPT.

And I think it's gotta be said that that infamous 9-ball break that has elevated many a pool player in times gone by is NOT going to be a factor on this tour. There's a little more to the game of 8-ball than racking and breaking strategies. This truly is REAL POOL with no room for rack riggers and break mechanics, and if you think they do not exist, you are living in a dream world. I saw one American icon at an event rack his own in a winners-rack format and make the EXACT SAME wing ball eight times in a row on his break. It was sickening.

Meanwhile, back to the topic of the thread, if the IPT does anything at all for this sport, it will definitely bring the cream of the crop out into the open. The travel and lodging expenses, unfortunately, are a part of doing business in this pool world, but at least with the IPT, there's something to reach for. The name-brands and super stars are veteran tournament soldiers and comfortable with the environment, but with this kind of money on the line, there will be a new breed of pool player on the horizon, and I can't wait to see how it unfolds. So, hang onto your hats, folks, and...

LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!

You tell him, Kid!

JAM

Not water under the bridge for the players and I use the term loosely, who will be maxing out their credit cards trying to keep up with expenses. All I can say is when you are at the tournaments watch out for the bite.

Wally in Cincy · Mar 8, 2006

JAM said:
This truly is REAL POOL with no room for rack riggers and break mechanics, and if you think they do not exist, you are living in a dream world. I saw one American icon at an event rack his own in a winners-rack format and make the EXACT SAME wing ball eight times in a row on his break. It was sickening.

A bit off topic but Mike Massey played in a rack-your-own 9-ball tourney (in Calgary IIRC - forum member sniper would remember) and he made four 9-balls in a row on the snap.

8-ball bernie · Mar 8, 2006

i believe, if pool was to become a popular sport to the masses, then the greatest players on earth, will not be a very big part of that success. i say this because, without naming names, the very best pool players on earth, lack personality, they resemble monotone robots, let's face it, joe schmo public does not want to tune into a drone. they want to see, ACTION! PERSONALITY~~ frantic, shotmaking, incredible shots, they want pool to become "alive" this ipt tour should not be about who is the greatest player in the world, no sir, the public doesn't care. they want persoanlity, they want to see strickland throw a chair across the room and hit the ref in the head! i don't want to see that, the public does! we live in a sick sound bite, show me action type of world. the ipt is trying to bring pool to the masses, PERIOD! let's face it, pool nuts already know, who the greatest players are, we are informed, however, the public wants more! they want Bernie Friend cursing under his breath, keith, complaining about something, karen corr beating the men, austin murphy who is only 12, beating efren reyes, the magician. this is what the ipt is about, if it were just about the top 10 players in the world do you know who would care? bob jewitt, pat flemming, you and 6 other pool nuts. that is NOT what the ipt is all about, it's goal is bring pool to the masses.

CaptiveBred · Mar 8, 2006

JAM said:
I saw one American icon at an event rack his own in a winners-rack format and make the EXACT SAME wing ball eight times in a row on his break. It was sickening.

JAM

This is easy to do without rigging the rack if that was what you were saying. The man in your pick shows how to do it in one of his videos. It works well with a perfectly tight rack. Same can be said for 8 ball. If you rack the balls tight, put them in the same spot, hit the CB the same, the balls will spread the same. if you find a combo that makes a ball, in theory, it will do it everytime.

BTW - Welcome back!!

JAM · Mar 8, 2006

CaptiveBred said:
This is easy to do without rigging the rack if that was what you were saying. The man in your pick shows how to do it in one of his videos. It works well with a perfectly tight rack. Same can be said for 8 ball. If you rack the balls tight, put them in the same spot, hit the CB the same, the balls will spread the same. if you find a combo that makes a ball, in theory, it will do it everytime.

BTW - Welcome back!!

Thanks, CaptiveBred.

Racking is why 9-ball, IMHO, is not a true test of a player's skills set. If the racking with perfection is a skills set, then there should exist breaking tournaments. Forget about running out the rest of the balls. Just rack 'em, crack 'em, and may the best player win.

There are some on the tournament trail who make every effort to rack the balls with such perfection to deliberately create CRACKS between designated balls for the sole purpose of when they do break 'em, the wing ball will fly in every single time.

In these instances, this is NOT a perfect rack, but, in fact, is a rack with imperfections to enhance the success of their break. This is the illustration I was trying to portray, not an attempt to get a PERFECT rack with no cracks.

With 8-ball, it's going to be a whole new ball game for some players, and the BREAK and the RACK, a rack with imperfections, will, hopefully, be a non-entity on the IPT tour.

JAM

uwate · Mar 8, 2006

JAM,
In the example that you gave of 8 times the same wing ball, why didnt the opposing player look the rack over and require a rerack? Are these rack mechanics so good that you cant even see where they are modifying the rack?

If the balls are racked tight all around and the wing ball is still flying in, isnt that more of an issue with the table instead of the racker?

JAM · Mar 8, 2006

uwate said:
JAM,
In the example that you gave of 8 times the same wing ball, why didnt the opposing player look the rack over and require a rerack? Are these rack mechanics so good that you cant even see where they are modifying the rack?

If the balls are racked tight all around and the wing ball is still flying in, isnt that more of an issue with the table instead of the racker?

Yes, the table can be a factor in the break. That's for sure.

The opposing player, after the fourth time the same wing ball flew in, gave up trying to make the player re-rack and just remained benched for the duration of the match. It was over in no time. In this instance, it wasn't the BEST player who won, it was the BEST racker who won. Eight times in a row is ridiculous. Even with the utilization of a Sardo rack, this would be difficult to do, the same wing ball being pocketed in the same hole eight times in a row.

JAM

macguy · Mar 8, 2006

8-ball bernie said:
i believe, if pool was to become a popular sport to the masses, then the greatest players on earth, will not be a very big part of that success. i say this because, without naming names, the very best pool players on earth, lack personality, they resemble monotone robots, let's face it, joe schmo public does not want to tune into a drone. they want to see, ACTION! PERSONALITY~~ frantic, shotmaking, incredible shots, they want pool to become "alive" this ipt tour should not be about who is the greatest player in the world, no sir, the public doesn't care. they want persoanlity, they want to see strickland throw a chair across the room and hit the ref in the head! i don't want to see that, the public does! we live in a sick sound bite, show me action type of world. the ipt is trying to bring pool to the masses, PERIOD! let's face it, pool nuts already know, who the greatest players are, we are informed, however, the public wants more! they want Bernie Friend cursing under his breath, keith, complaining about something, karen corr beating the men, austin murphy who is only 12, beating efren reyes, the magician. this is what the ipt is about, if it were just about the top 10 players in the world do you know who would care? bob jewitt, pat flemming, you and 6 other pool nuts. that is NOT what the ipt is all about, it's goal is bring pool to the masses.

Have you completely lost your mind? Do you really believe anything you wrote? Playing devils advocate if you are in fact right, then lets hope this thing NEVER gets off the ground before they do serious damage to the sport. You can't hardly get a variance from any city commission to open a pool room now or rent space once the landlord hears what you want to open, can you imagine trying after what you describe. I think you are seriously grasping at straws trying to justify your involvement in this thing. People want to see good players playing the game well, not a circus. What you describe would be very short lived and forgotten quickly. Let's hope this is not the plan.

8-ball bernie · Mar 8, 2006

to you macguy i say this "cliffhangers" this is where the television shows make ALL of their money, from the tease for next week's show. how many times have you heard next week, paula sleeps, and then wakes up? john dresses up to go to work? NO you never, ever, ever hear that. why??? because it's B O R I N G ! ! you hear, next weeks show, missy gets a call from a stranger, john falls and damages his head, will he be able to go on? all of these reality tv shows are based on stay tuned!!!!!!!!! and the ipt will probally show, on next weeks king of the hill, then they will show clips of the ref making a mistake and taking the balls away before the game was over! gay liel falling down!!!!!!! stuff like that! to make the viewer STAY TUNED!! look at every reality tv show that's on now. what do they all have in common? they all have in common, "oh wow nancy, i have to watch next weeks show, did you SEE those coming attractions!!!!!" so if you think i'm crazy, your wrong, and do not ever go into the world of television, if you did, this would be your tease for next week "watch mika immonen play great, and make no mistakes" wow! that's exciting isn't it?????!!!!!!

macguy · Mar 8, 2006

8-ball bernie said:
to you macguy i say this "cliffhangers" this is where the television shows make ALL of their money, from the tease for next week's show. how many times have you heard next week, paula sleeps, and then wakes up? john dresses up to go to work? NO you never, ever, ever hear that. why??? because it's B O R I N G ! ! you hear, next weeks show, missy gets a call from a stranger, john falls and damages his head, will he be able to go on? all of these reality tv shows are based on stay tuned!!!!!!!!! and the ipt will probally show, on next weeks king of the hill, then they will show clips of the ref making a mistake and taking the balls away before the game was over! gay liel falling down!!!!!!! stuff like that! to make the viewer STAY TUNED!! look at every reality tv show that's on now. what do they all have in common? they all have in common, "oh wow nancy, i have to watch next weeks show, did you SEE those coming attractions!!!!!" so if you think i'm crazy, your wrong, and do not ever go into the world of television, if you did, this would be your tease for next week "watch mika immonen play great, and make no mistakes" wow! that's exciting isn't it?????!!!!!!

What reality shows have in common is they are very cheap to produce, that's why they do them. You don't put together what the IPT has and spend that kind of money and take the huge financial risks they are taking to produce a few segments for a reality show. There may very well be a reality show come from this but it is far from the main reason to be doing the tour. You need no more then one tournament to produce a reality show not a multi-million dollar tour. I don't know what is really in the mind of K.T. but it defiantly is not that.

You think that showing pool and pool tournaments as poorly run fiasco's are entertaining? I doubt seeing a player smash another with a chair will induce a parent to want to go out and buy a table so the kids can engage in this new and wholesome activity. It would set back pool decades. I once bought a pool room and my attorney actually asked me how I would deal with people carrying guns and the fights that would happen. The public perception of pool is so low you can't believe it and you want to make it even worse?

cuesrus · Mar 8, 2006

8-ball bernie said:
i believe, if pool was to become a popular sport to the masses, then the greatest players on earth, will not be a very big part of that success. i say this because, without naming names, the very best pool players on earth, lack personality, they resemble monotone robots, let's face it, joe schmo public does not want to tune into a drone. they want to see, ACTION! PERSONALITY~~ frantic, shotmaking, incredible shots, they want pool to become "alive" this ipt tour should not be about who is the greatest player in the world, no sir, the public doesn't care. they want persoanlity, they want to see strickland throw a chair across the room and hit the ref in the head! i don't want to see that, the public does! we live in a sick sound bite, show me action type of world. the ipt is trying to bring pool to the masses, PERIOD! let's face it, pool nuts already know, who the greatest players are, we are informed, however, the public wants more! they want Bernie Friend cursing under his breath, keith, complaining about something, karen corr beating the men, austin murphy who is only 12, beating efren reyes, the magician. this is what the ipt is about, if it were just about the top 10 players in the world do you know who would care? bob jewitt, pat flemming, you and 6 other pool nuts. that is NOT what the ipt is all about, it's goal is bring pool to the masses.

IMO Uninformed, Unrealistic, Uneducated, Unbelievably Stupid! How can anyone take this stuff seriously? Are you talking about professional Wrestling? That must be it. You are a WWF Fan aren't you! I hate to break the news to you but WWF is fake! YOU CAN'T FAKE POOL. IF YOU MISS EVERY SHOT AND LOOK LIKE A COMPLETE BEGINNER, YOU CAN'T THROW A CHAIR AND GET RATINGS! Cmon Bernie cut the crap. This is not a circus. This is most of the players' primary source of income, not some hobby, do not do the sport and its players a disservice by turning it into a freaking zoo. They have worked for years honing their fantastic skill level, only to be replaced by hacks, dwarves, circus clowns, Vince Mcmahon and the like. I certainly hope your pipe dreams do not become reality!

Rob

8-ball bernie · Mar 8, 2006

you are so missing my point. i want pool players to get the uptmost respect, heck i'm one of them! what i am saying is this~~~~~~~ pool must appeal to the masses, not just you and i, we are the chior, don't preach to us. we need NEW viewers, new blood, the ipt will not come across as a circus or a freak show, but it will come across as an exciting sport, that takes skill and has lot's and lot's of pressure and drama, this is not your father's ESPN. that is my point, this is the dawning of a new era, pool will be a "real sport" serious and fun, but, it will be dramatic, exciting and new, none of this preaching to the chior stuff, a new exciting angle on pool. as kevin said in his own words, aai papraphrase here, it will have the seriousness of golf, with the entertainment and drama of poker.

juegabillar · Mar 8, 2006

JAM said:
As they say in business, sometimes it takes money to make money.

The expenses will be a stumbling block for my household, I must admit. However, the IPT members I have spoken to are all chomping at the bit to receive this GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to compete for a $2-million purse. It is truly extraordinary.

Money payouts pale in comparison to the expenditures of tournaments in recent times. This has been the BIGGEST stumbling block on the tournament trail TODAY as I know it. Making expenses is darn near impossible unless you come in third or fourth place.

Now the IPT has created a platform in which players can play REAL POOL on a level playing field with REAL RULES and actually earn REAL MONEY.

I am happy that the IPT is providing first-class locations for the events. It will be tough going in the beginning for the IPT members, but when the monies start rolling in, I am hopeful that the players will reap the benefits and enjoy earning not only a decent wage, but one which is comensurate with their talent. The one thing that I am hoping the IPT will change is that the sport will FINALLY get a little respect. To date, its toughest critics have come from within its own culture. Now is the time for all good pool players to come to the aid of their sport. It's show time.

JAM

JAM:

I was referring to the expenses of those who did not make it into the original 150 and have had to take their chances with qualifiers.

There is a great number of excellent players that were not in the original 150 and have had some great expenses in order to try to qualify for the Tour. It will take some time for these people to recover from their loses.

Those who were originally selected, and those who already qualified will get their chances to "recoup" the money invested. The others will have to stay at the sidelines for the time being with a couple of "thousand dollars" in the red until another qualifier comes up.

Everyone is happy for those who made it, but what about those who didn't?

This tour will benefit about 150 players of the thousands listed in the world. If we take into consideration that there are 153 recognized billiard organizations in the world, (not all of them pool) the average is not even 1 player per organization/country.

In reality, this tour will only benefit a few.......this means that the remaining players will have to survived with the "mom and pops" tournaments around the world that don't have the sponsorship and money being "poured in" by the IPT......but wait, the IPT has already ignored the established dates of our beloved "mom and pops" tournaments and have bumped them out of their already selected dates.....leaving them scambling for air......and last minutes changes that obviously cost money.....

I'm still scrambling with this IPT issue........

IPT Travel and lodging expenses

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