Is it possible being a smart, analytical type can actually hold back your game?

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
Don't be offended, I'm not saying all good players are dumb or smart people will never shoot good pool. It's just something that came up with some friends... Sometimes it seems like the guys who don't think much and just drill balls in are the ones who make it to the A ranks, while other guys like me are barely B players, we're only 60% to make a shot longer than six feet, and mostly rely on knowledge.

We all know the guy who is a genius at some physical activity like pool but can't spell "dog" with three hints. At the other ends of the spectrum are the armchair teaching types who know all the physics and obscure quirks and rules but never place in the money at any event people have heard of.

Can having a surplus of brains just get in your way?
 
Hi Creedo,

long time no see/write :-)

I see your point- but can definitley say, that it is not really that way you shown up. I know many many intelligent guys, who have multiple hobbies, friends (also^^) who are really strong pool players.
It is just about the necessary willing and the heart- these are the important points which will force you to practice and increase your skills. And you need this *initial point* where you got affected with the pool-virus. From then it s just about how hard you practice and that you follow your way on the pool-street.

I am sure that we could discuss here a long time by showing up reasons to call your question with a "Yes" or "No". But this would be a neverending story imo :-)

Take care Creedo-nice that you re posting again a bit more.

lg
Ingo
 
Good post.

No, but believing you have a surplus of brains definitely will.

dld

The most frustrating this in the world is trying to explain something that you know a player doesn't understand at all but they think that they do.

Most everyones brain gets in the way........
 
The most frustrating this in the world is trying to explain something that you know a player doesn't understand at all but they think that they do.

Most everyones brain gets in the way........


HrHr Geno :)

"they know it all" -- so we should be perhaps just very thanksful that "THEY" just are so nice to listen (physically) lmao ^^

jk (a bit)

Ingo
 
Most likely the individual with less brain activity spent more hours playing pool while others chose to get an education.
 
I don't think it interferes. You just have to play subcounsciously. All people can learn that.


Any top pro pool players out there who have graduated from college/university?
 
Max Eberle for one, Nick Varner is another and "The Miz" is a third.

Beyond those three there may be more that I am not aware of.

In my opinion "book smarts" has little to do with excellent pool. I would bet that some sort of non-verbal intelligence (patterns-shapes) is a bigger factor, that may have an influence. That would be an interesting study to give pool players a sort of verbal and non-verbal intelligence test to see how these play out.

Other than, hours of practice, nerves of steel, and excellent eye-hand coordination of course.


I don't think it interferes. You just have to play subcounsciously. All people can learn that.


Any top pro pool players out there who have graduated from college/university?
 
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What I think I've learned through life is that everybody has a different set of, uh, brainular and physicular aptitudinal abilities.

I've learned certain things from individuals that they themselves were not all that good at, but were amazingly proficient at being able to figure out and explain to others. Similarly, there have been others that I wouldn't trust to give me correct change for a nickel, but could build a structure that could withstand the test of time.

Some people have a natural ability to understand or learn the concept, others have the natural ability to perform, while many others fall somewhere in between. To compound this, life throws in differing amounts of will/desire to do something, the financial resources to be able to spend the time and then the actual free time to do it without interference.

If, in fact, somebody is smart and analytical, they theoretically should be able to progress at a faster rate as they are more likely to figure out what they are doing right or wrong. At the same time, they are also more likely to 'over think' what they are doing(or sometimes be convinced that they're not even wrong), attempting to force the action to take place instead of allowing it to come from within them based on what they have learned.

For example, try to write in cursive at a slow, deliberate pace. Chances are, it is not going to look right and the 'flow' of the action is lost. If you just stop caring completely, it will look sloppy and may not even resemble what you are intending to write. There is a special connection that is made between physical action and thought that happens when we simply do what we are wanting to.

After reading the first few chapters of The Inner Game of Tennis, it helped me to understand that connection and allowed me to let it take place naturally. I would strongly suggest reading it to help you let go of your conscious control over your performance and to trust your knowledge of past actions and their results. I always considered my shot-making as a calibration of hand-eye coordination mixed with the interactions of what I was trying to do(inside english on shots, etc). The book has helped to reinforce that idea and gave me more confidence to trust in the actions that my body wanted to perform even when my mind disagreed. That does not mean that my conscious mind should not longer pay attention to what I was doing.

Who's the better golfer, the one that just goes out there and hits the ball, or the one that learns about what he's doing? It's nearly impossible to tell without taking into account an unreasonable amount of things, some of which may not be reliable or may even be contradictory.

Read the book.. it's inexpensive and may help you to understand the conflict that you're having between your conscious mind and your subconscious knowledge.

It's late and I've had a few shots.. so take that for what its worth! :thumbup:

In summary ... it's equally possible that it can hold back your game and can help to improve your game.

Good night.. :thud:
 
I work for Boeing, even the garbage cans in the restrooms are over engineered, if you try to read too much into something, it doesn't work as well as just keeping it simple.:thumbup:
 
Yes the guy who fires it in will progress faster. Pool is the most complex simple thing ever. Bert kinister talks about muscle memory, and I believe you learn by doing and not thinking about it. I have sat around and talked about things and thought analytically about pool till I was blue in the face. But when I'm in gear I don't think. I just do. I don't think about aiming, stroke, or anything other than safety play(even that can be over thought). Most guys who think about pool to much are the ones who don't get to play enough so they think about it while doing things like work. They want to be playing pool and think about it so much they over think about it.
 
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:smile:Here in Houston there is literally a rocket scientist from NASA that plays a lot. I think it really doesn't matter what type of brain a person has, but over thinking/analyzing things is usually not the best thing when you are over the cue ball fixing to pull the trigger. I could care less about all the physics that go on with the balls and such.....I just want to get safe or put the ball in the pocket when it's my turn. I use the kiss method....keep it simple stupid.
 
Analysis paralysis comes to mind, and many think knowing something is the same as being able to apply it....NOT....
 
If I hear that pool is all math and geometry one more time im gonna lose it. Sure it is but so is bowling, so is a coffee cup or a dresser. Everything is math so whats your point :rolleyes:
 
Math & Geometry

If I hear that pool is all math and geometry one more time im gonna lose it. Sure it is but so is bowling, so is a coffee cup or a dresser. Everything is math so whats your point :rolleyes:

Pool certainly isn't ALL math and geometry, but they are clearly a big part of the game. Math and geometry came easily to me, and it made pool considerably easier to learn.

As a former "serious" bowler (bowling instructor) AND a pool player (billiards instructor), I don't how you can compare the two. Far more geometry (strategy?) in pool.

I think the issue here is improving as a pool player, which I think is clearly augmented by a "knowledge" of geometry. I don't want to become a good "coffee cup" or "dresser", but if I wanted to MAKE a cup or a dresser, a little math and geometry would help, no?

If pool were just about pocketing balls, there wouldn't be a lot of thinking involved. But pool ISN'T just about pocketing balls. It's actually about using the tip of a cue to move balls around a table in a manner that facilitates winning the game...making balls, playing position, playing defense - often all at the same time. Knowledge of angles, patterns and strategies is essential and requires more than just athletic ability.

Donny L
PBIA/ACS Instructor
 
I totally disagree with the hypothesis that the inferior mind will produce better pool players. If we but look at those who have played the games we love, we may readily see that intelligence, and a sharp mind, has always won out.
Does Allison Fisher look like just another dumb blonde. Does the look of determination on Jeanette Lee's face say, "I could sure use a pizza." And remember. They didn't call Fats, Triple Smart, for nothing.
No, my friends. Being able to think your way around a pool table is a blessing. Not a curse. :smile:
 
"Don't be offended" but....

Most of the people who think they're too smart......

Ain't so much. ;)
 
Don't be offended, I'm not saying all good players are dumb or smart people will never shoot good pool. It's just something that came up with some friends... Sometimes it seems like the guys who don't think much and just drill balls in are the ones who make it to the A ranks, while other guys like me are barely B players, we're only 60% to make a shot longer than six feet, and mostly rely on knowledge.

We all know the guy who is a genius at some physical activity like pool but can't spell "dog" with three hints. At the other ends of the spectrum are the armchair teaching types who know all the physics and obscure quirks and rules but never place in the money at any event people have heard of.

Can having a surplus of brains just get in your way?

There's a guy who's a school teacher that I know that's been playing a long time.
He is terrible and smart. There's smart and then there's smart.
If someone thinks their so smart that they don't listen to advice, because
they know it all, then it takes a lot longer to learn. If indeed they end up learning at all. In his case so far he hasn't, you might say he out smarted himself.

Case in point you can show someone something in five or ten
minutes that they could take five years to figure out on their own, if ever.
You can cut the learning curve by many years if you are smart enough to know, that you don't know.

Bottom line is if you can find an instructor or player who is willing and knowledgeable and can also relay that knowledge to you and is good at
it, then you're lucky.

Other wise take the pile of info and knowledge you will get from many people and sort it out carefully, take what helps and leave the rest.
Why I say that is because I've seen people many times and so have you probably, that are clueless trying to show a beginner how to play, that would be the stuff you leave. LOL
 
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IMHO:

The more thinking and analyzing you do (with your left brain) before getting down on a shot is good.

After getting down on the shot any left brain activity (thinking, analyzing, talking to yourself internally or godforbid talking to someone else) is bad.
 
There's a guy who's a school teacher that I know that's been playing a long time.
He is terrible and smart. There's smart and then there's smart.
If someone thinks their so smart that they don't listen to advice, because
they know it all, then it takes a lot longer to learn. If indeed they end up learning at all. In his case so far he hasn't, you might say he out smarted himself.

Case in point you can show someone something in five or ten
minutes that they could take five years to figure out on their own, if ever.
You can cut the learning curve by many years if you are smart enough to know, that you don't know.

Bottom line is if you can find an instructor or player who is willing and knowledgeable and can also relay that knowledge to you and is good at
it, then you're lucky.

Other wise take the pile of info and knowledge you will get from many people and sort it out carefully, take what helps and leave the rest.
Why I say that is because I've seen people many times and so have you probably, that are clueless trying to show a beginner how to play, that would be the stuff you leave. LOL

So true, you first need a good set of wheels before you can Even think of driving. Nowadays many think a little this a little that an I can improve, when the foundation of the project is of most importance, and of course someone who can explain it to YOU in a way YOU understand. And the way you teach one person the same concept as another is NEVER the same, even tho your talking about the same thing.
 
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