New Cue Problems
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losenior
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New Cue Problems - 01-03-2013, 06:28 AM

Hi,
I'm new to AZ and have enjoyed the information and seeing all of the different cues and cases. I'm 70 years old and haven't played pool for about 30 years. We like to go south for a few weeks and the place we stay at has eight Olhausen tables and this year we decided to get our own pool cues this years, the cues were to be our Christmas presents to each other.
Charleen picked a Ozone Player sneaky Pete and a hard case. I ordered Recollection Cues Blackcreek Sneakie Pete Cue with a GTF Case-New Style from Tom Watters. Tom was very helpful in the selection, sale and the shipping. The Blackcreek arrived on 21-05-12 and Player arrive on 12-10-12. Both cues and case were given a quick look and the put in to there case,wrapped and place under Xmas tree next to each other and opened on Christmas morning. When I put the cues together the Ozone Player went together fine and the Blackcreek had the following problems.

1. When I put the cue together the shaft is offset from the butt.

2,When I roll the butt the ferrule appears to be off center. I took a couple measurements and at one point there is less than 0.004 inches of clearance to the table and when I roll it about 180 degrees there is about 0.016 inches of clearance.

3.When I roll the shaft there is wobble about 8 inches from the tip.

4. When I put Blackcreek Cue together and roll it, the tip and the end of the butt roll fine, it's what's going on in the middle and the shaft wobble that I have questions about. I'm trying to evaluate how a new Custom cue can exhibit these characteristics.

1.Is the Blackcreek cue playable?

2. Can the Blackcreek cue be repaired?

The cue and case have not been used. I'll be in Palm Springs California for the next three weeks and would be happy to meet with any members in the area and have you take see what you think. The Blackcreek is beautiful cue.

Thanks for any suggestion.

Jerry Anderson

Last edited by losenior; 01-03-2013 at 06:32 AM. Reason: spelling errors
  
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tsp&b
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01-03-2013, 06:54 AM

Jerry,

It seems only reasonable to me that if you have questions about anything that you just purchased that you would first contact the folks that you purchased it from.


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losenior
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01-04-2013, 10:38 AM

TSP,

Thanks for the reply,

I contacted Tow Watters at Recollection Cues and explained my concerns and was informed that I have should told him about the problems the day that I recieved the Blackcreek Cue. Tom also told me that no cue seller would do anything after someone had the cue 20 days. Tom told me that I must have subjected the cue to extreme weather conditions. I asked Tom if I could send him the cue the for an evaluation. No Respnse.
The Blackcreek cue was one of three that Tom had and this was the last one available, it was built sometime in 2011. It seems that this particular cue has been around for awhile and I was expecting a new cue built in 2012.

I contacted Travis Niklich at Blackcreek Cue and offered to give him the cue and GTF Case free so that he would be able to see one of his cues and evaluate how this could happen after 20 days of ownership I offered this as a gift to Travis, I do not expect any type of compensation.
He declined.

I have many years experience as Marine Finish Carpenter, I know wood, fit and alignment. If one of my clients had a concern about the quality of my work, I would want to meet with them and see and hear their concerns. My work was my advertisement and I didn't have a set time limit.

It looks like on my own.

So, is this cue playable?

Is there anything that can be done correct the problems?

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Jerry Anderson
  
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waylander
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01-04-2013, 10:58 AM

Where do you live that "extreme weather conditions" would apply?

Also, when the but is rolled by itself, does it roll straight? If it's just a matter of replacing the shaft you might just have to do that.

Can you show us some pictures of the issue?
  
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whammo57
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01-04-2013, 12:05 PM

I hope you don't think I am an ass......

Did you swap the shafts between the two sneakies??

Kim


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Bob Farr
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01-04-2013, 12:15 PM

When you say the shaft is offset from the butt, it sounds like the collar on the shaft and the collar on the butt overlap (don't fit flush on the sides)?
If so, sounds like maybe the wrong shaft was sent with the butt. If you can't live with that, send it to Ryan at Meullers Recreational Products or Scott at Proficient Billiards for repair.

Is it playable?

Put the butt end up to your eye and sight down it like a rifle and if it looks straight, it's playable. IMHO there are a lot of players that get way too caught up with a little taper variance that doesn't hinder playability. "ROLL NAZIS" However if you are going to think about it all the time you play, just go get it fixed or get rid of it.

Pictures of your problem would help us evaluate if you really have a problem.
BTW, sounds like you got some lousy customer service to me. I'd be pi$$ed.

Good luck sir!

Last edited by Bob Farr; 01-04-2013 at 12:18 PM.
  
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EasyEJL
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01-04-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by losenior View Post
1. When I put the cue together the shaft is offset from the butt.
is it evenly offset ie the diameter of either the shaft or butt is evenly bigger than the other part?

Quote:
Originally Posted by losenior View Post
2,When I roll the butt the ferrule appears to be off center. I took a couple measurements and at one point there is less than 0.004 inches of clearance to the table and when I roll it about 180 degrees there is about 0.016 inches of clearance.
when you roll the butt the ferrule appears off center? the ferrule is on the shaft, not the butt. Or are you saying you are rolling it holding the butt onto the table and the tip doesn't quite touch at all?

Does the butt roll evenly by itself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by losenior View Post
3.When I roll the shaft there is wobble about 8 inches from the tip.
that can be just taper related, depending on how bad it is


Quote:
Originally Posted by losenior View Post
4. When I put Blackcreek Cue together and roll it, the tip and the end of the butt roll fine, it's what's going on in the middle and the shaft wobble that I have questions about. I'm trying to evaluate how a new Custom cue can exhibit these characteristics.

1.Is the Blackcreek cue playable?

2. Can the Blackcreek cue be repaired?
it should be playable, not sure if a pro would want to use it as it is. It doesn't sound like a repair issue so much as a shaft issue, as someone else mentioned possibly the wrong shaft was sent with it if the shaft's collar isn't matching the butt's end correctly. And you have to remember, its not a "new" custom cue. Its a cue that you bought from a reseller whose had it in their shop at least a year. Granted, it is entirely reasonable to expect that the cue would be in perfect working order but ordering one from the cue maker would have been different.

I'm also not really surprised at Blackcreek's disinterest, that cue has been out of their hands for over a year and he can't control how Recollection cues stored it, or whether they sent the right shaft with it. It may be they aren't even official retailers for them, and that the cues he had were either just ordered directly, or were purchased through someone else such as another dealer.

None of that really helps you I know, but if the butt rolls evenly by itself i'd just try to find a local cue repair/building shop to look at getting a new shaft, or see what Blackcreek will charge to make one for you. Sucks to spend more money, but sometimes c'est la vie.
  
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01-04-2013, 12:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by losenior View Post
Hi,
. . . . . .

1. When I put the cue together the shaft is offset from the butt.

2,When I roll the butt the ferrule appears to be off center. I took a couple measurements and at one point there is less than 0.004 inches of clearance to the table and when I roll it about 180 degrees there is about 0.016 inches of clearance.

3.When I roll the shaft there is wobble about 8 inches from the tip.

4. When I put Blackcreek Cue together and roll it, the tip and the end of the butt roll fine, it's what's going on in the middle and the shaft wobble that I have questions about. I'm trying to evaluate how a new Custom cue can exhibit these characteristics.

1.Is the Blackcreek cue playable?

2. Can the Blackcreek cue be repaired?

The cue and case have not been used. I'll be in Palm Springs California for the next three weeks and would be happy to meet with any members in the area and have you take see what you think. The Blackcreek is beautiful cue.

Thanks for any suggestion.

Jerry Anderson
With regard to your original observations and questions:

1. When I put the cue together the shaft is offset from the butt.

It sounds like you are saying that when screwed together, the edge of the shaft protrudes a little and 180 degrees on the other side, the edge of the butt protrudes a little. If that is the case, then I'd have to ask if there is any possibility that the shaft is not the original one sold with the butt? It's hard to imagine BlackCreek letting that obvious flaw leave their shop. And there's almost no possibility that warpage of any kind would cause that problem.

2,When I roll the butt the ferrule appears to be off center. I took a couple measurements and at one point there is less than 0.004 inches of clearance to the table and when I roll it about 180 degrees there is about 0.016 inches of clearance.

Something is a little off here - .004 inches is about the thickness of a human hair, so I'm not sure how you measured that. And on the opposite side you measured about 4-5 human hairs. If these are really the measurements that you mean, then they are trivial and nothing to worry about.

3.When I roll the shaft there is wobble about 8 inches from the tip.

You don't say how much wobble - if it is .004 inches, then, again, it is trivial. However, a wobble in that area is not an uncommon warp - it probably wasn't there when the shaft left the Blackcreek shop and could have developed rather quickly depending on where it has been. Or it may also be due to the shaft not being the original to the cue.

1.Is the Blackcreek cue playable?

Sure it's playable. If the warps are small but bothering you, then screw the butt and the shaft together. Then decide if you want the bowing to go up or down. Roll the cue to that position and place a tiny dot at the top of the cue near the spot where the shaft and the butt meet. Then always shoot with this dot on the top. If there is a difference from straight, your brain will quickly compensate for your eyes.

If the warps are large, you probably are not going to adapt to the above work around.

2. Can the Blackcreek cue be repaired?

Almost anything can be repaired, but sometimes those repairs can add up to more than the cost or value of the whole cue. At that point, it's your call whether to go ahead or start looking for another cue.

However, I'm still questioning whether you got the original shaft. Is there custom ringwork on the shaft that matches the butt? If not, you might simply buy another shaft to fit the butt and play away!!

Hope This Helps,

Gary


Player - GBCues 18oz BEM Front, Leather Wrap, and Black Walnut Buttcap Player. OB-2 Shaft
BreakStick - GBCues 17oz Marblewood Front, Leather Wrap, Mahogany Butt Cap (Black Walnut Shaft)
  
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PaulieB
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01-04-2013, 05:45 PM

As suggested, roll them separately and see if the problem goes away. This will let you know if the problem is a warp or a joint problem. If they roll fine when apart, see if you can try a different shaft and then roll it again. This will then isolate if it is the shaft end of the joint that is the problem or the butt end of the joint that is the problem.

I had a cue once that rolled true when apart but had a noticeable wobble when together. Tried a different shaft and the problem went away. Figured the shaft needed to be refaced and that still didn't fix it which I was very surprised by... ran a new tap through the threads and all the problems went away. There must of been something in there not quite right or it got a slight cross thread somehow, who knows?

Of course, if your wobble is still there when the cue is apart, you might have a taper roll or a warp, depending how much the tip is lifting from the table would determine it's "playability" imo.

Last edited by PaulieB; 01-04-2013 at 05:49 PM.
  
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01-04-2013, 06:58 PM

Jerry, sent you a pm. Please check your Private Messages.
  
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Hmmmm
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Hmmmm - 01-04-2013, 08:26 PM

So far there has been no information from Tom or Travis about this cue. I would really like to here their side of the story. Travis & Tom seem to have a pretty good reputation as far as I know, something just doesn't seem right here. JMO; and I hope this all works out for all.


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losenior
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Update - 01-05-2013, 03:33 PM

Thanks for your interest.

I'm meeting with someone with more experiece with cues. I will share another AZ members opinion with his permission.

I will give you an update after I try some of your suggestions.

I have limited internet access.

Thanks,
Jerry Anderson
  
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Moving On
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losenior
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Moving On - 01-07-2013, 07:32 PM

I met with an AZ member and he said that the cue is playable. He also saw the same things that I mentioned earlier.

It is time to accept that the cue did not meet my expectations and move on.

I would like to expain how I made the measurments of the butt joint wobble.
I used a digital caliber. I used card stock as a feeler gage, the card stock is 0.04 thick. I was not able to get one card under the lowest gap, and four pieces of card stock would slid under the higest gap. I repeated this process four times with the same result.

Butt Joint Wobble, Lowest point off table 1 card < 0.04.
Highest point off table 4 cards 0.16.

This is a correction for my ealier post on the measurement.

Thank You for you feedback. There are lesson to be learned at all ages.

Jerry Anderson
  
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01-07-2013, 11:46 PM

Hi Jerry
Thanks for this thread.
I know now,where and from who I will not buy in the future.Dealers and cuemakers should stand beside their products
  
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01-07-2013, 11:57 PM

It doesn't matter that cue is playable,because it isn't what you ordered and what you expected and how should be look.So,it looks they don't care for others and don't stand beside their products and it is good thing to know.I woudn't do any business with that kind of cuemaker and dealers.So,this kind of informations are very valuable and thanks for sharing them and let us know more about some people over here.
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