Something about Alignment

ThePoliteSniper

ThePoliteSniper

Fruitshop Owner
Silver Member
I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I recently stumbled upon this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlMxPngOYos

Nic Barrow, a snooker coach, uses a head camera and shows how professional players approach the game. Notice how he aligns his head on every shot and how the aiming (and thinking) is done way before he moves his head down. It's the same procedure on every shot, even when he uses side spin. No micro-adjustments needed. Very methodical and consistent.
 
ThePoliteSniper said:
I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I recently stumbled upon this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlMxPngOYos

Nic Barrow, a snooker coach, uses a head camera and shows how professional players approach the game. Notice how he aligns his head on every shot and how the aiming (and thinking) is done way before he moves his head down. It's the same procedure on every shot, even when he uses side spin. No micro-adjustments needed. Very methodical and consistent.
Click to expand...

"(Stand) behind the line of aim exactly -- none of this sliding in from the side."

"Approach directly behind the line of aim."
 
His cue moved from left to right quite frequently. So, NO his cue does not go directly straight down to the shot line from ball address.

His eyes did not start at ball address precisely on the shot line for every shot. Some visuals.sweeps were obvious.

And, yes, CTE PRO ONE VISUALS were likely accessible for many of his shots.

I am on my I phone now and when I get to a larger screen I will be able to view it more carefully....and perhaps I will point out a couple that appeared obvious to me.

Allison Fisher's final alignment at ball address is in an offset to the shot line before she sweeps to CCB.
I got that first hand from Allison. I watched her go through her routine and she explained that to me. She also commented, that the Pro One visuals, could be used for consistent offsets.

Do not be too quick and happy to think that snooker players are eyeing an exact shot line and placing their cue precisely on that line and then physically moving 100% down on that line.....

Stan Shuffett
 
The shot angles arnt to great here,it looks like(and what maybe a lot of us do)he falls on the sightline then does a back and forth eyeing the cb ,ob,cb ,ob while stroking till it looks rite.Maybe


Anthony
 
8pack said:
The shot angles arnt to great here,it looks like(and what maybe a lot of us do)he falls on the sightline then does a back and forth eyeing the cb ,ob,cb ,ob while stroking till it looks rite.Maybe


Anthony
Click to expand...

Anthony, you are correct! He (frequently)falls on the shot line. His cue almost always comes in from the side. He clearly begins many shots from an offset.
He is a strong candidate for CTE!!

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
Anthony, you are correct! He (frequently)falls on the shot line. His cue almost always comes in from the side. He clearly begins many shots from an offset.
He is a strong candidate for CTE!!

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Thanks Buddy!:)
Im going to make note of this......Stan agreed with me.....05/23/13....cool.:wink:

Anthony
 
The eyes lead - the body follows - nice left to right sweep cueing center ball.

Welcome to CTE/Pro 1 - you can only see it if you understand it.
 
stan shuffett said:
His cue moved from left to right quite frequently. So, NO his cue does not go directly straight down to the shot line from ball address. ...

Do not be too quick and happy to think that snooker players are eyeing an exact shot line and placing their cue precisely on that line and then physically moving 100% down on that line.....
Click to expand...

That Nic Barrow's cue tip moves to the shot line from left to right on many shots is not the point. That tip movement results from the fact that a right-handed player frequently carries the cue across his body as he moves from shot to shot. So the tip then has to move from left to right to get back to the shot line.

The key point is that Nic is placing his head/eyes on the shot line while he is standing, and he then moves his head/eyes straight in as he goes down to the shot. This is different from a Pro One visual sweep. I think that Nic is doing what he says (which I quoted in post #2) on the vast majority of the shots.

As you say, Pro One is not about cue movement, it is about eye movement. And not all of the world's great cueists move to the shot line from an offset eye position.
 
AtLarge said:
That Nic Barrow's cue tip moves to the shot line from left to right on many shots is not the point. That tip movement results from the fact that a right-handed player frequently carries the cue across his body as he moves from shot to shot. So the tip then has to move from left to right to get back to the shot line.

The key point is that Nic is placing his head/eyes on the shot line while he is standing, and he then moves his head/eyes straight in as he goes down to the shot. This is different from a Pro One visual sweep. I think that Nic is doing what he says (which I quoted in post #2) on the vast majority of the shots.

As you say, Pro One is not about cue movement, it is about eye movement. And not all of the world's great cueists move to the shot line from an offset eye position.
Click to expand...

The head cam clearly shows head movement to the shot line on at least a few shots. On other shots it was hard to tell what his head/eyes were doing.

I do not believe that the top snooker players are eyeing the line all the way down.

I have worked with many very good players to include pros that are unaware of their sweeps to CCB.

I am willing to make a fair wager that HAWKINS/O'Sullivan are sweeping into many of their shots. 2013 WC SNOOKER FINALS.

Allison does...snooker background.
Phil Burford does...... has played a lot of snooker and still plays some and he uses PRO ONE.

Stan Shuffett
 
Notice how he aligns his head on every shot and how the aiming (and thinking) is done way before he moves his head down. It's the same procedure on every shot, even when he uses side spin.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. I can see where on similar angled shots sometimes he approaches from the left and sometimes from the right and sweeps in as described. To build consistency, it helps to stand erect in the same relationship to the balls before bending in/sweeping in to play the shot.
 
stan shuffett said:
The head cam clearly shows head movement to the shot line on at least a few shots. On other shots it was hard to tell what his head/eyes were doing.

I do not believe that the top snooker players are eyeing the line all the way down.

I have worked with many very good players to include pros that are unaware of their sweeps to CCB.

I am willing to make a fair wager that HAWKINS/O'Sullivan are sweeping into many of their shots. 2013 WC SNOOKER FINALS.

Allison does...snooker background.
Phil Burford does...... has played a lot of snooker and still plays some and he uses PRO ONE.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Hi Stan:

I'm not on these forums as much as I used to be (a number of reasons why), but I just caught this thread.

While it is true that it's hard for us to know what a pro is doing unless he/she specifically tells you, it would be a huge mistake to make assertions by what you see based on movements detected with a head cam. I can share with you, through experience in doing "point of view" instructional videos on data center walkthroughs, that one's main focus when wearing a head cam is trying to keep the head still. Every little muscle movement in the neck is detectable in the video, so one walks around like a stiff-necked zombie to avoid this.

I'm familiar with Nick Barrow's instruction, and I can tell you that he does not use CTE/Pro-1, nor does he "sweep" into the shot line as you seem to be saying. What I think you're perceiving as a "sweep," is an inadvertent centering adjustment movement by Nick to keep his head still while wearing the head cam. And I agree with AtLarge in that since Nick is a right-handed player, of course you're going to see him bring the cue in from the left. That is not a sweep or pivot; it's just a side effect (forgive the pun) of cueing from one particular side of the body.

The problem is, when we believe in something so thoroughly and completely, our views on what others see is often jaded or colored. If you look for something hard enough, *of course* you're going to convince yourself that you're seeing signs of it. But that's not always what you're seeing. Sure, if a pro outright tells you that he/she is sweeping into center cueball, ok then -- that's different. But I'm familiar with Nick's instruction, and he is most definitely a classic snooker instructor that uses back-of-ball aiming.

Again, no offense here, but I stumbled onto this thread and had to pipe up.

Warmest regards,
-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Hi Stan:

I'm not on these forums as much as I used to be (a number of reasons why), but I just caught this thread.

While it is true that it's hard for us to know what a pro is doing unless he/she specifically tells you, it would be a huge mistake to make assertions by what you see based on movements detected with a head cam. I can share with you, through experience in doing "point of view" instructional videos on data center walkthroughs, that one's main focus when wearing a head cam is trying to keep the head still. Every little muscle movement in the neck is detectable in the video, so one walks around like a stiff-necked zombie to avoid this.

I'm familiar with Nick Barrow's instruction, and I can tell you that he does not use CTE/Pro-1, nor does he "sweep" into the shot line as you seem to be saying. What I think you're perceiving as a "sweep," is an inadvertent centering adjustment movement by Nick to keep his head still while wearing the head cam. And I agree with AtLarge in that since Nick is a right-handed player, of course you're going to see him bring the cue in from the left. That is not a sweep or pivot; it's just a side effect (forgive the pun) of cueing from one particular side of the body.

The problem is, when we believe in something so thoroughly and completely, our views on what others see is often jaded or colored. If you look for something hard enough, *of course* you're going to convince yourself that you're seeing signs of it. But that's not always what you're seeing. Sure, if a pro outright tells you that he/she is sweeping into center cueball, ok then -- that's different. But I'm familiar with Nick's instruction, and he is most definitely a classic snooker instructor that uses back-of-ball aiming.

Again, no offense here, but I stumbled onto this thread and had to pipe up.

Warmest regards,
-Sean
Click to expand...

Hi Sean,

My point is quite simple.

Snooker players as well as their counterpart pool players across the pond visually sweep to the shot line. Those sweeps are right and left. (Ronnie O. sweeps left and right.)I have observed this for many years. The movement is slight and often difficult to observe and most all players that do this are not even aware of it.

2 things about Nic's video.

1. He definitely falls to the shot line for some shots.

2. If he teaches that the eyes pick up the shot line before his bend to full stance starts and then he bends perfectly straight down, then he is inconsistent with his practice.

I doubt that he is truly picking up the shot line until his cue begins the movement of straight down after it comes in from left to right.

There is no doubt in my mind that many of his offsets and sweeps could be reversed to CTE PRO ONE....and the same can be said for top pool players. That in no way implies that I believe they are consciously using CTE PRO ONE.

This will subject will be examined more and more over time and I am in it for the long haul. Efren sweeps, Bustamante sweeps, Souquet sweeps....and the list is endless.

This is what CTE PRO ONE is all about: the onjective visuals offsets and the 2 physical movements to CCB.
The offsets and sweeps of CTE PRO ONE have a direct connection (geometrically) in connecting with shot lines for snooker and pool players alike.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
Hi Sean,

My point is quite simple.

Snooker players as well as their counterpart pool players across the pond visually sweep to the shot line. Those sweeps are right and left. (Ronnie O. sweeps left and right.)I have observed this for many years. The movement is slight and often difficult to observe and most all players that do this are not even aware of it.

2 things about Nic's video.

1. He definitely falls to the shot line for some shots.

2. If he teaches that the eyes pick up the shot line before his bend to full stance starts and then he bends perfectly straight down, then he is inconsistent with his practice.

I doubt that he is truly picking up the shot line until his cue begins the movement of straight down after it comes in from left to right.

There is no doubt in my mind that many of his offsets and sweeps could be reversed to CTE PRO ONE....and the same can be said for top pool players. That in no way implies that I believe they are consciously using CTE PRO ONE.

This will subject will be examined more and more over time and I am in it for the long haul. Efren sweeps, Bustamante sweeps, Souquet sweeps....and the list is endless.

This is what CTE PRO ONE is all about: the onjective visuals offsets and the 2 physical movements to CCB.
The offsets and sweeps of CTE PRO ONE have a direct connection (geometrically) in connecting with shot lines for snooker and pool players alike.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Stan:

Actually, you are exhibiting exactly what I was saying, when I said "if you look intently enough for something, of course you're going to convince yourself that you see signs of it." When we are so absorbed and consumed by a belief, our very picture of the world is distorted.

You are convinced you see "sweeps" in Nick Barrow's head-cam video. But, 1.) knowing what it's like to wear a head-cam because I've done it for my line of work, and 2.) knowing Nick Barrow's instruction personally, I'm trying to share with you that he doesn't "sweep." Nick is a HUGE advocate (a classic advocation in the snooker world, actually) of acquiring the shot line BEFORE you step onto it, and before you bend down upon it. Classic snooker instruction -- and I have first-hand experience here -- is to acquire the shot line first, step upon it with the planted leg (the right leg for a right-hander and vice-versa for a leftie), and then bend down upon it. There is not supposed to be "misinterpretation" here, because this is classic "by the book" snooker instruction. Only a pool player who's "looking for something else" would misinterpret this.

And, I think it's a little disingenuous to believe that Nick, while wearing a head-cam and trying his best to keep his head still, is going to pedantically go through the "up, and then 100% perfectly downward" movement that is taught in getting down on a shot. Sometimes, after you've performed a shot, you'll find you're already on or very close to the shot line of the next shot -- especially in that classic line-up drill shown in the video. I'll bet Nick has shot that drill so many thousands of times, that he has "muscle memories" of moving to the next shot -- i.e. red, color, red, color, back and forth, back and forth. It's quite natural to have "movement shortcuts" instilled into muscle memory when doing a repetitive drill like this. A pool player like yourself, however, looking at this video -- and especially through [please forgive me, no offense!] tinted glasses -- is going to "see something different" and interpret those movements as something other than what they really are.

And yes, in analyzing Nick's view through the head-cam, maybe the Pro-1 visuals jump right out at you, but just because you see those visuals doesn't mean Nick does nor that he's using them. Like I said, Nick is a classic back-of-ball aimer, and this is what he teaches. Please read the notes underneath the video's window on YouTube -- he discusses there what his purpose is in creating this video. It has nothing to do with aiming or strict "this is what you should be doing on every single shot" rote-type of instruction.

Again, I'm only sharing first-hand info with you to help dispel incorrect perceptions -- I'm not trying to discuss the merits or pros/cons of CTE/Pro-1 or anything like that.

Warmest regards,
-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Stan:

Actually, you are exhibiting exactly what I was saying, when I said "if you look intently enough for something, of course you're going to convince yourself that you see signs of it." When we are so absorbed and consumed by a belief, our very picture of the world is distorted.

You are convinced you see "sweeps" in Nick Barrow's head-cam video. But, 1.) knowing what it's like to wear a head-cam because I've done it for my line of work, and 2.) knowing Nick Barrow's instruction personally, I'm trying to share with you that he doesn't "sweep." Nick is a HUGE advocate (a classic advocation in the snooker world, actually) of acquiring the shot line BEFORE you step onto it, and before you bend down upon it. Classic snooker instruction -- and I have first-hand experience here -- is to acquire the shot line first, step upon it with the planted leg (the right leg for a right-hander and vice-versa for a leftie), and then bend down upon it. There is not supposed to be "misinterpretation" here, because this is classic "by the book" snooker instruction. Only a pool player who's "looking for something else" would misinterpret this.

And, I think it's a little disingenuous to believe that Nick, while wearing a head-cam and trying his best to keep his head still, is going to pedantically go through the "up, and then 100% perfectly downward" movement that is taught in getting down on a shot. Sometimes, after you've performed a shot, you'll find you're already on or very close to the shot line of the next shot -- especially in that classic line-up drill shown in the video. I'll bet Nick has shot that drill so many thousands of times, that he has "muscle memories" of moving to the next shot -- i.e. red, color, red, color, back and forth, back and forth. It's quite natural to have "movement shortcuts" instilled into muscle memory when doing a repetitive drill like this. A pool player like yourself, however, looking at this video -- and especially through [please forgive me, no offense!] tinted glasses -- is going to "see something different" and interpret those movements as something other than what they really are.

And yes, in analyzing Nick's view through the head-cam, maybe the Pro-1 visuals jump right out at you, but just because you see those visuals doesn't mean Nick does nor that he's using them. Like I said, Nick is a classic back-of-ball aimer, and this is what he teaches. Please read the notes underneath the video's window on YouTube -- he discusses there what his purpose is in creating this video. It has nothing to do with aiming or strict "this is what you should be doing on every single shot" rote-type of instruction.

Again, I'm only sharing first-hand info with you to help dispel incorrect perceptions -- I'm not trying to discuss the merits or pros/cons of CTE/Pro-1 or anything like that.

Warmest regards,
-Sean
Click to expand...

I have not brainwashed myself into seeing something that is not there. What I am speaking of is obvious across the board among professional players.

Pros do NOT line up visually and move directly in a straight line with their eyes to their shot lines.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
I have not brainwashed myself into seeing something that is not there. What I am speaking of is obvious across the board among professional players.

Pros do NOT line up visually and move directly in a straight line with their eyes to their shot lines.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Yes you have Stan,its happened to me many times.I started seeing ghost.:D
 
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