I think I've turned a corner. Input wanted!

jhanso18

jhanso18

Broken Lock
Silver Member
So as of late, when I'm shooting, I find myself going into this weird place. I'm seeing my shot before I ever get down, and nothing in the world seems to be able to reach me. I just know what I need to do, step to the shot and fire. Almost like I'm in a trance. I'm making most (90% or better with a clean shot) of what I'm firing at. I'm extremely confident in my shooting right now, but I still need work on my position and pattern play.

I'm fairly consistant at getting out playing 9 or 10 ball on a bar box, but I'm struggling with 8ball like crazy. I HATE 8 ball. Can't get my break working well, can't seem to find the right pattern to get out, make positional errors out of frustration, etc. If my opponent shoots 3-4 balls in and misses I'm out 80-90% of the time. With a full rack I'm struggling bad! BB 8-ball is THE game around here, and I can't stand it. How do I get better at this game, with out playing it preferably...

What I know is that I have issues with Position, and Pattern. Should I be looking for another issue or should I just focus on these? I know my aim and stroke are not the problem right now. And I'm kinda lost at how to fix the problem. I'm hitting balls whenever I can. Pry 4-6 nights a week atleast hour or more. I'm gain by leaps and bounds at ever game except for 8 ball.

I LOVE to play 1 pocket, straight pool, banks, and any rotation game, so why is this 1 game beating me????

ALL INPUT IS WELCOME AND WANTED. I NEED THIS MONKEY OFF MY BACK!!!!!!!
 
I also need help on my break I think. Here are a few things I quickly evaluate after the break (assuming I made at least 1 ball) is:

1. Is the rack runnable
2. If yes then are there any trouble spots/breakouts needed and let's get a plan for them now, not later
3. If not what is my game plan for playing safe, or making a couple then playing safe etc

If you find yourself selling out too much running 5-6 and then missing it is possible it is a shape issue (under the assumption the table was runnable)...or could be something else.

Is the break itself the biggest struggle or what to do after the break?
 
Just a thought, but 8 ball, especially on a bar table requires a different set of skills, namely cluster management and the ability to stun into small position areas.
If you play straight pool well though, 8 ball shouldn't be a problem.

You may just have a mental block in that you feel it's a banger's game so you can't take it seriously. I used to feel the same way too, but I realized that when played properly it's a very demanding and challenging game at any level.

Good luck!

Vic
 
Get the book "Mastering Pool" by George Fels. It will teach you 8 ball patterns and routes, and what to look for and why. Then, start doing some drills whether you like them or not, they will teach you cb control. 8ball on a barbox is ALL about cb control and patterns.
 
Absolutely !

Neil said:
Get the book "Mastering Pool" by George Fels. It will teach you 8 ball patterns and routes, and what to look for and why. Then, start doing some drills whether you like them or not, they will teach you cb control. 8ball on a barbox is ALL about cb control and patterns.
Click to expand...

George Fels section on 8-ball pattern play in that book is priceless!
Worth it just for the section on 8-ball but a great book , one of the few with a section on One Pocket also.:thumbup:
 
Look, the secret to playing 8ball is to play it backwards, meaning look at the table, look at which pocket the 8ball goes in the easiest, then back up one ball from there to determine which ball would get you the best position on that 8ball to make it. Then back up one more ball again to determine which ball is going to set you up on the ball that sets you up on the 8ball. Back it up all the way to the first ball you're going to shoot. The pattern for running out from there becomes much more clear when you see it that way.

Glen
 
Spimp13 said:
I also need help on my break I think. Here are a few things I quickly evaluate after the break (assuming I made at least 1 ball) is:

1. Is the rack runnable
2. If yes then are there any trouble spots/breakouts needed and let's get a plan for them now, not later
3. If not what is my game plan for playing safe, or making a couple then playing safe etc

If you find yourself selling out too much running 5-6 and then missing it is possible it is a shape issue (under the assumption the table was runnable)...or could be something else.

Is the break itself the biggest struggle or what to do after the break?
Click to expand...


I have a VERY strong break. I can rip it well, hit the head ball well, control whitey, the whole bit. Just can't seem to get a ball to fall. Even second ball break doesn't want to work for me. I need to get my break in check for BB 8 ball. even still, not the biggest issue.

My biggest problem comes after the break. I don't see the out for shit. I have trouble formulating a plan. I can ID my trouble spots, and where to put the 8 last, but I can't seem to see the whole rack to the out. I might have to try what Glen suggested, and start working the whole rack backward.

I also do have ALOT of trouble with the mental part of the game. I know it's not a bangers game, but I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HHHAAAAAATTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEE 8BALL. I never played it if I didn't have to. I have been more lately and it's helping, but I just don't like the game. I thought about just getting really good at a safety break since I like 1p, and make every game a grind.

Either way I'm going to check out that book, and try Glen's approach.

BTW I can play a guy locally 9-10ball on BB or big table even, and need 2-3 games to 5 to beat him at 8 ball... WTF????????????
 
At the professional level, 8-ball is very much a "run out or die" game - at the amateur level, not so much... especially on a bar box. The mistake I see a lot of runout 9-ball players make is trying to get out every single rack. Often that translates to clearing a bunch of traffic for your opponent and ending up in an untenable position with only a ball or two left on the table. I've been there far more times than I'd like to admit.

A better approach is to identify the trouble spots in the rack and try to deal with them immediately. Allow yourself 2 or 3 shots to try to deal with clusters, move balls that don't have a pocket, etc, and re-assess the situation after each shot. If the rack doesn't develop for you quickly, and the runout looks very low percentage, find a way to duck while you still have 4-6 balls on the table. Tie something up if you have to. Give your opponent the opportunity to make the first mistake.

Aaron
 
jhanso18 said:
So as of late,
...I'm seeing my shot before I ever get down, and nothing in the world seems to be able to reach me.

I just know what I need to do, step to the shot and fire. Almost

...I'm making most (90% or better with a clean shot) of what I'm firing at.
I'm extremely confident

!!
Click to expand...

It will pass, I regret to inform.
 
You've gotten some good advice. 8 ball on small tables is not more 'difficult' it is just different because the table is more congested & there are less 'open' shot routes.

ALL breaks can be run out but many will take work to make them so. If one wants to play safe it had better be a very good safe. 8 ball, especially on a small table, requires very good cue ball control.

The best practice is always to play. But here is something that I have been doing since working with CJ's TOI.

Throw 4 of each balls on the table with the eight & run out or if you mis run the others. If this gets too easy throw out 5 of each, etc.

My suggestion is to pay particular attention to your cue ball control & work on it however you like. But,,, you control it & don't let the shot control it.
Shooting balls into a particular side of the pocket & with english or TOI can help in this regard.

Good Luck & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
Last edited:
I think that the hate that you feel towards 8 ball is affecting your 8 ball game more than you know.

Working backwards from the 8 as Glenn suggested is good advice. Another thing is if the out is not clear from the start, DO NOT start running balls. Every ball you take off the table makes it easier for your opponent.

Good safety play at the beginning of the game can pay off.

How much practice time do you allow for 8 ball? you need to practice it more....play it more, and try to enjoy it.

jhanso18 said:
I have a VERY strong break. I can rip it well, hit the head ball well, control whitey, the whole bit. Just can't seem to get a ball to fall. Even second ball break doesn't want to work for me. I need to get my break in check for BB 8 ball. even still, not the biggest issue.

My biggest problem comes after the break. I don't see the out for shit. I have trouble formulating a plan. I can ID my trouble spots, and where to put the 8 last, but I can't seem to see the whole rack to the out. I might have to try what Glen suggested, and start working the whole rack backward.

I also do have ALOT of trouble with the mental part of the game. I know it's not a bangers game, but I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HHHAAAAAATTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEE 8BALL. I never played it if I didn't have to. I have been more lately and it's helping, but I just don't like the game. I thought about just getting really good at a safety break since I like 1p, and make every game a grind.

Either way I'm going to check out that book, and try Glen's approach.

BTW I can play a guy locally 9-10ball on BB or big table even, and need 2-3 games to 5 to beat him at 8 ball... WTF????????????
Click to expand...
 
Working the rack backward reminds me of playing in my hometown and checking where the 8 would go right after the break. Some locals saw that as being cocky. At the first State tournament I was at, I thought it was confidence that made some players move the patch to where the 8 was going to go.

It is an important part of figuring out the pattern.

I break best when I imagine the tip of the cue going past the side pockets and then do it. Have had burns on my thumb from the linen before.
 
Lots of good info for you here Bro....

Aaron_S said:
At the professional level, 8-ball is very much a "run out or die" game - at the amateur level, not so much... especially on a bar box. The mistake I see a lot of runout 9-ball players make is trying to get out every single rack. Often that translates to clearing a bunch of traffic for your opponent and ending up in an untenable position with only a ball or two left on the table. I've been there far more times than I'd like to admit.

A better approach is to identify the trouble spots in the rack and try to deal with them immediately. Allow yourself 2 or 3 shots to try to deal with clusters, move balls that don't have a pocket, etc, and re-assess the situation after each shot. If the rack doesn't develop for you quickly, and the runout looks very low percentage, find a way to duck while you still have 4-6 balls on the table. Tie something up if you have to. Give your opponent the opportunity to make the first mistake.

Aaron
Click to expand...

You are in the zone ! Congrats. Life is GOOD there. :)
BB 8-ball is my least fav game,.... I still play it , its just blase' to me. That said, you need to look at the BIG PICTURE when playing 8-ball. Not only what everyone here suggested, BUT, You need to ask the "what if's " as well. You need to master 2 way shooting as well as CB position. If you can't pot the ball, its defense, and jam him up good ! 8- ball (more so than 9-ball) is about table control more than CB control. Look at it that way and I know your game will improve !
 
Last edited:
Aaron_S said:
At the professional level, 8-ball is very much a "run out or die" game - at the amateur level, not so much... especially on a bar box. The mistake I see a lot of runout 9-ball players make is trying to get out every single rack. Often that translates to clearing a bunch of traffic for your opponent and ending up in an untenable position with only a ball or two left on the table. I've been there far more times than I'd like to admit.

A better approach is to identify the trouble spots in the rack and try to deal with them immediately. Allow yourself 2 or 3 shots to try to deal with clusters, move balls that don't have a pocket, etc, and re-assess the situation after each shot. If the rack doesn't develop for you quickly, and the runout looks very low percentage, find a way to duck while you still have 4-6 balls on the table. Tie something up if you have to. Give your opponent the opportunity to make the first mistake.

Aaron
Click to expand...

I agree with this post by Aaron.

It is difficult to go from playing 9 ball well to playing 8 ball well because a different mindset is needed. The key is to never clear your object balls off the table unless you are 95% certain you are going to run out. The biggest mistake you can make is to run 5 or 6 balls off and then leave yourself a tough shot and miss, giving a wide open table to your opponent.

Look at problems early, don't save them for later in the game or you will not have a chance to take care of them. Clusters and object balls that don't have a clear path to a pocket need to be bumped around. If you can't do it early, play a lockup safe and position your next ball in hand shot so that you can easily make a ball and take care of your problem. The thing with 8 ball is it has a bit more strategy in it than 9 ball and you need to be a little less aggressive at times.
 
If you're playing the same guy frequently, beyond paying attention to the score, pay attention to safety play.

If he's beating you frequently at 8b, but you beat him in 9b or 10b, it sounds like his strategy is beating you.

I do this with a friend of mine. I find out of 10 games, he may play on average 10-15 safeties. I'll play maybe 4 or 5.

Although generally speaking I get the better of him, watching his strategy is helping me alter mine. I used to hardly ever play safe. Only 2 way shots. Now I look at the layout and plan an occasional safety. Whereas a year ago, safeties were only for when I got out of line.

Makes me a better player now.
 
jhanso18 said:
I have a VERY strong break. I can rip it well, hit the head ball well, control whitey, the whole bit. Just can't seem to get a ball to fall. Even second ball break doesn't want to work for me. I need to get my break in check for BB 8 ball. even still, not the biggest issue.

My biggest problem comes after the break. I don't see the out for shit. I have trouble formulating a plan. I can ID my trouble spots, and where to put the 8 last, but I can't seem to see the whole rack to the out. I might have to try what Glen suggested, and start working the whole rack backward.

I also do have ALOT of trouble with the mental part of the game. I know it's not a bangers game, but I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HHHAAAAAATTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEE 8BALL. I never played it if I didn't have to. I have been more lately and it's helping, but I just don't like the game. I thought about just getting really good at a safety break since I like 1p, and make every game a grind.

Either way I'm going to check out that book, and try Glen's approach.

BTW I can play a guy locally 9-10ball on BB or big table even, and need 2-3 games to 5 to beat him at 8 ball... WTF????????????
Click to expand...

Working backwards is a good idea, but you can't be too wedded to it in a way that makes you miss an opportunity to adjust the pattern if you come up a little long or short one time.

If the working-backwards-connect-the-dots pattern on a given rack is challenging, then I try breaking the table into zones (usually just 2, bottom and top; sometimes you need 3 or 4 zones) and focus on finding a linking ball that lets me clear out one zone and then get to the other (keeping in mind the critical need to get to the 8 at the end). When I go to the second zone, I'm looking for an area for the CB that maximizes my options.

This is one of the differences about 8 ball that I think people underappreciate and don't fully take advantage of: 8-ball requires pinpoint shape less often than other games. So when I'm evaluating my pattern, it will often be the case that there's a huge area of the table where you can land the cue ball and continue the run (often because you have a ball that goes in the side and another that goes in the corner). If you don't recognize the value of such areas, then you're probably making your patterns harder than they have to be. Sometimes it's as simple as "make these 4 balls, get to that giant area over there, and I'm out." The pattern that comes from this is usually different than what would come from a complete roadmap.

I'm not saying that you can be careless with shape, just pointing out that you should maximize the value of situations with a high margin of error.

Cory
 
Cory in DC said:
Working backwards is a good idea, but you can't be too wedded to it in a way that makes you miss an opportunity to adjust the pattern if you come up a little long or short one time.

If the working-backwards-connect-the-dots pattern on a given rack is challenging, then I try breaking the table into zones (usually just 2, bottom and top; sometimes you need 3 or 4 zones) and focus on finding a linking ball that lets me clear out one zone and then get to the other (keeping in mind the critical need to get to the 8 at the end). When I go to the second zone, I'm looking for an area for the CB that maximizes my options.

This is one of the differences about 8 ball that I think people underappreciate and don't fully take advantage of: 8-ball requires pinpoint shape less often than other games. So when I'm evaluating my pattern, it will often be the case that there's a huge area of the table where you can land the cue ball and continue the run (often because you have a ball that goes in the side and another that goes in the corner). If you don't recognize the value of such areas, then you're probably making your patterns harder than they have to be. Sometimes it's as simple as "make these 4 balls, get to that giant area over there, and I'm out." The pattern that comes from this is usually different than what would come from a complete roadmap.

I'm not saying that you can be careless with shape, just pointing out that you should maximize the value of situations with a high margin of error.

Cory
Click to expand...

I've actually been noticing this more and more, on the racks I get out on.

It's not like I'm playing REALLY terrible. I think I'm in the upper half of BB 8ballers around here. It's when I get to that top 20 percentile of players. AA and masters players just beat me to death. When I break really well, I run out. I need to learn how to get out when I break like shit.

I think all the info here is very good. I'm going to go to the table and try it out.

A very sincere thanks to all for the help!!!
 
Diamond69 said:
If you're playing the same guy frequently, beyond paying attention to the score, pay attention to safety play.

If he's beating you frequently at 8b, but you beat him in 9b or 10b, it sounds like his strategy is beating you.

I do this with a friend of mine. I find out of 10 games, he may play on average 10-15 safeties. I'll play maybe 4 or 5.

Although generally speaking I get the better of him, watching his strategy is helping me alter mine. I used to hardly ever play safe. Only 2 way shots. Now I look at the layout and plan an occasional safety. Whereas a year ago, safeties were only for when I got out of line.

Makes me a better player now.
Click to expand...

The guy is beating me by running out. almost NO safeties. He just sees the table better. There are not many grinders around here. BB 8ball is a run-out-fest in this area... for good players anyway...

I know I can get this. In the last 6-8 months I've gotten back to preferring to play on the big table. I thought I would never like it. Couldn't seem to handle the extra room. I buckled down and beat my head against the slate till I could make it work. Now I love it and prefer big table to small. (I play stronger on the small box, but I like the movement of the big table. I feel I can let my stroke out more.)

I think with the advice here, and some hard nosed practice, I can get there! Lets hope!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top