you get what you pay for... SAYS WHO?

nineballsafety8

nineballsafety8

6ft 5" 285, hits 'em hard
Silver Member
So, before anyone gets their panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has become evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction were when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)
 
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I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.
 
I've thought like that forever. It's not the cue. It's the player. In a cue, hit is most important. What makes me like a cue is craftsmanship, history, and beauty. And I could care less what someone else thinks about a cue I'm shooting with. Even though I have some nice custom cues ill still grab a cue off the rack and have a good time. I guess it's just a "to each his own" thing.
 
MahnaMahna said:
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.
Click to expand...

Ford focus :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuDN2bCIyus

Not being contrary, but can you be more specific? What could you do with a $4k black boar that you couldnt do with a $150 lucasi? and be honest... given that it is in the hands of B+ or better player.
 
MahnaMahna said:
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.
Click to expand...

Not a good comparison as a Mercedes can outperform a Focus regardless of the driver's skills. Just put it on a dyno.

The same cannot be said about a pool cue.
 
I've been playing pool and golf most of my life. In both sports there has always been guys who have to have the name, then the price, then they feel like they are somehow superior, not because of how they play but what they play. I have about $100 in my pocket cue and it's nothing fancy although I like it, it hits a little hard for my taste but I know what kind of player I am so I get by. If I get better maybe I'll look for something with a little less tinky feel. For years I had no more than about $200 in my golf bag. Some home made stuff, some stuff I won. There is no name or price that impresses me. If you play great and you can afford whatever you play with more power to you. If you're impressed with that, it's ok, just know that I am not. I am impressed by a guy who can run 40 balls or more in straight pool, I am impressed by stringing 4 or 5 birdies in a row. Everything else is just for for your ego. If I thought I was good enough I'd probably buy a schon pool cue. Always loved the way they felt and they look great and were well built.

I buy what works and in pool and golf it's usually more about about the indian than the arrow.
 
I'm sorrry but if you are trying to tell me your McD Lucky cue, plays as good as a Tasc., Sugartree, etc. Your opinion holds almost no value to me. It might play OK with a tip, and retaper, but it isn't going to have premium shaft wood, it won't have the good hit that those cues do, nor will it transfer energy like a well made cue does. Not to mention deflection from a McD lucky shaft compared with a premium shaft. Heck, I've never even seen one that rolled straight... I do have a friend that plays a McD with Keith shafts that plays pretty, after refacing the joint.

I'm not one to go out and drop huge bucks on a name cue, but a nice 350-500 custom from Keith Kues, Pat Diveny, Woodworth, or any other reputable, quality cue maker, will out play most cues. It will hold value, and usually out last the other cue. (i.e. stay straight, finish holds up better, etc.) Hell, I once picked up a Steve Klapp cue for like $225, and it's still one of the best playing cues I've ever hit.

There is no A+B=C formula for cue buying, or playing pool for that matter. However, better gear definitely doesn't hurt your game. I've been beat up on by guys with house cues, and guys with $10k+ cues, I know the argument both ways very well. My gear comes with a sense of pride. I love this game and I work hard at it. My cues are a treat to myself for putting in the time to justify owning such gear. That's my opinion anyway.

All the best,

Justin Hanson
 
nineballsafety8 said:
So, before anyone gets the panties in a twist... I am going to go on a medium rant about cues and why there is so much "perfect hit" crap going on.

SO.....

I have been playing off and on for about a decade, and at one point was playing 5+ hrs a day, 365... since joining the Army, I no longer have that luxury. However, in my several years as an avid hobbyist, I have been through upwards of 20 cues. I was always looking for the next big thing when it came to cues and technology and who was the new hot cuemaker... blah blah blah

After spending WAY TOO MUCH MONEY on cues over the years, it has became evident to me that what you spent, or who's name is on your cue is pretty pointless.

For me its all about feel. I like a cue that gives me good feedback, and there is a certain sound that I like my cues to make when I hit a ball well (mostly the tip and ferrule combination account for the sound). So, I have to ask myself, why do I keep looking for the next best thing, when I have now and have had SEVERAL cues in the past that play great.

And what I realized, was that it was 2 fold. The main fun for me was the HUNT, I love doing the research and dreaming up what I think might make me happy. But more importantly, and the part that has my feathers ruffled... is that PART of me was caring about what other peoples reaction was when I answered the question "hey, what kind of cue is that".

SO... what did I do? I benched all of my high dollar equipment, and bought a "McDermott" LUCKY cue... $39 from Amazon PRIME... and guess what fellas (and ladies)... IT PLAYS GREAT. So what if it was made in china, or taiwan, or the moon... i don't care if it was made by retarded monkeys with polio... as long as it plays well.

So will I continue to look for the Tascarella's, Szamboti's, Southwest's, Sugartree's, and whoever else might make people go ooooh and ahhhh... ya probably. But it will no longer be becaue I feel I need to validate myself as a "pool player"... im going to validate myself as a POOL PLAYER, by calling fouls on myself (regardless of if my opponent sees it), by being the first one to extend my hand for a worthy handshake to my opponent (win or lose), by never complaining about rolls (they are good and bad, and both players are on the same table), and by enjoying THE GAME!!!

If I decide I want to buy a nice cue, it will be to appreciate the hardwork and craftsmanship of the person behind the lathe... it will no longer be to give myself "the edge" above the next guy.

MY edge will come from hard work and dedication when I am at the table.



Curious as to your thoughts?

please discuss ;)
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
9BallEddie said:
Not a good comparison as a Mercedes can outperform a Focus regardless of the driver's skills. Just put it on a dyno.

The same cannot be said about a pool cue.
Click to expand...

I think it just proves the point even more actually. It's a great comparison. You can measure energy transfer from a cue into the cue ball, just like a car on a dyno. (more energy transfer = better break, and when you shoot balls, you can swing softer allowing for more accuracy.) You can measure later G's in handling, just like deflection. A better cue will out perform an inferior one.

Just like in the car world Sebastion Vettel, will more thane likely drive circles around the average Joe. (granted a Focus ST to say a Benze S500 or soemthing of that nature.) Same way Shane will smoke most guys with a bar cue.

just saying there is always going to be measurable differences.
 
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jhanso18 said:
I'm sorrry but if you are trying to tell me your McD Lucky cue, plays as good as a Tasc., Sugartree, etc. Your opinion holds almost no value to me. It might play OK with a tip, and retaper, but it isn't going to have premium shaft wood, it won't have the good hit that those cues do, nor will it transfer energy like a well made cue does. Not to mention deflection from a McD lucky shaft compared with a premium shaft. Heck, I've never even seen one that rolled straight... I do have a friend that plays a McD with Keith shafts that plays pretty, after refacing the joint.

I'm not one to go out and drop huge bucks on a name cue, but a nice 350-500 custom from Keith Kues, Pat Diveny, Woodworth, or any other reputable, quality cue maker, will out play most cues. It will hold value, and usually out last the other cue. (i.e. stay straight, finish holds up better, etc.) Hell, I once picked up a Steve Klapp cue for like $225, and it's still one of the best playing cues I've ever hit.

There is no A+B=C formula for cue buying, or playing pool for that matter. However, better gear definitely doesn't hurt your game. I've been beat up on by guys with house cues, and guys with $10k+ cues, I know the argument both ways very well. My gear comes with a sense of pride. I love this game and I work hard at it. My cues are a treat to myself for putting in the time to justify owning such gear. That's my opinion anyway.

All the best,

Justin Hanson
Click to expand...

Justin,
As far as quality, fit and finish, and longevity... I totally agree... no questions asked. My Lucky doesn't come anywhere close to rolling straight... but thats not the point.

I changed the tip (red fiber pad, pressed triangle) lengthened the taper a bit, and then proceeded to run racks with it... no better, no worse than the $800 cue that I benched next to it.
 
jhanso18 said:
I think it just proves the point even more actually. It's a great comparison. You can measure energy transfer from a cue into the cue ball, just like a car on a dyno. You can measure later G's in handling, just like deflection. A better cue will out perform an inferior one.

Just like in the car world Sebastion Vettel, will more thane likely drive circles around the average Joe. (granted a Focus ST to say a Benze S500 or soemthing of that nature.) Same way Shane will smoke most guys with a bar cue.

just saying there is always going to be measurable differences.
Click to expand...

measurable in what way? I am still able to draw 3 rails on 860HR with my $40 cue, and it deflects no worse than any other "standard" shaft in my arsenal... (including some $200+ bowling alley and old growth shafts)
 
nineballsafety8 said:
measurable in what way? I am still able to draw 3 rails on 860HR with my $40 cue, and it deflects no worse than any other "standard" shaft in my arsenal... (including some $200+ bowling alley and old growth shafts)
Click to expand...

It has been done. You CAN measure deflection, and energy transfer. Two most important things in a cue. I'm not saying you cant do most, if not all the things your doing now, nearly the same. But you also have a highly modified shaft on you lucky. Your taper and tip have a direct effect on deflection and energy transfer. You might be able to draw 3 rails, but can you do it easier with better energy transfer? What about throwing a ball with spin? Easier to do with less deflection, isn't it?

I get what your trying to say, but you DO, in fact, get what you pay for (to an extent.) You pick 10 lucky's off the shelf I'll take 10 searings and we can compare how each play. I'll bet $1000 dollars that if we let 100 or so people test hit there choice of each Searing will win by a LAND SLIDE.

I'm not saying that you can't overpay for a cue. But if you pick up say a Diviney cue for $350, you're going to be hard pressed to beat it with any cue under $50. You could say the same thing about $150 Cuetec R360. You don't have to spend alot to get alot, I get that. But I will gauruntee my $400 plain jane Keith Kue will do more than your $40 lucky. 10 times more, pry not, but I can break over 30mph, I can jump fairly well, and I can play pretty damn sporty with it. (i.e. draw 3+ rails)

I get what your trying to say, but when rubber meets the road, to an extent you DO get what you pay for. I will maintain the best money you can spend for a new cue, on the cheap, is the R360 cuetec.
 
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jhanso18 said:
I think it just proves the point even more actually. It's a great comparison. You can measure energy transfer from a cue into the cue ball, just like a car on a dyno. You can measure later G's in handling, just like deflection. A better cue will out perform an inferior one.

Just like in the car world Sebastion Vettel, will more thane likely drive circles around the average Joe. (granted a Focus ST to say a Benze S500 or soemthing of that nature.) Same way Shane will smoke most guys with a bar cue.

just saying there is always going to be measurable differences.
Click to expand...

That measurable difference can only be measured by a player and their skill level. A cue's "performance" is only as good as the player who holds it. A poor player with a $3,000 cue is not going to outplay a pro with a $100 cue. I don't care how low the deflection is.
 
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jhanso18 said:
It has been done. You CAN measure deflection, and energy transfer. Two most important things in a cue. I'm not saying you cant do most, if not all the things your doing now, nearly the same. But you also have a highly modified shaft on you lucky. Your taper and tip have a direct effect on deflection and energy transfer. You might be able to draw 3 rails, but can you do it easier with better energy transfer? What about throwing a ball with spin? Easier to do with less deflection, isn't it?

I get what your trying to say, but you DO, in fact, get what you pay for (to an extent.) You pick 10 lucky's off the shelf I'll take 10 searings and we can compare how each play. I'll bet $1000 dollars that if we let 100 or so people test hit there choice of each Searing will win by a LAND SLIDE.

I'm not saying that you can't overpay for a cue. But if you pick up say a Diviney cue for $350, you're going to be hard pressed to beat it with any cue under $50. You could say the same thing about $150 Cuetec R360. You don't have to spend alot to get alot, I get that. But I will gauruntee my $400 plain jane Keith Kue will do more than your $40 lucky. 10 times more, pry not, but I can break over 30mph, I can jump fairly well, and I can play pretty damn sporty with it. (i.e. draw 3+ rails)

I get what your trying to say, but when rubber meets the road, to an extent you DO get what you pay for. I will maintain the best money you can spend for a new cue, on the cheap, is the R360 cuetec.
Click to expand...

Well said sir!
Wasnt argiung just wanted more of your opinion.

Especially the 100 off the shelf part.

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2
 
9BallEddie said:
That measurable difference can only be measured by a player and their skill level. A cue's "performance" is only as good as the player who holds it. A poor player with a $3,000 cue is not going to outplay a pro with a $100 cue. I don't care how low the deflection is. However, a low skilled driver in a Ferrari can absolutely beat a pro driver in a Winnebago.
Click to expand...

Like I said with in reason. A amature in a Ferrari won't out run a Pro in a corvette.

Same can be said for this. Same player with two different cues. Lets say the better cue makes said player a half ball to a whole ball better than a bar cue or a Lucky like you have. How much is that worth? Is it worth $100, $200, $2000??? It's subject to the player. If that player regularly plays for $1000 a set, is it worth $2000 to have that confidence in your gear? I guess it's subjective. To me, it's worth at least an extra $100, maybe even 2-300.

I'm not going to argue a B+ player to a pro, but what about a A player to a AA player? You think they're going to notice, and/or see a measurable difference? Every little advantage helps.

Like I said, a $150 R360 to your $40 Lucky, I'll spend the extra $110 every time.

Your $40 lucky to my $400 Keith I'll do the same, even though I can pry get by for less. It's all preference.
 
nineballsafety8 said:
Well said sir!
Wasnt argiung just wanted more of your opinion.

Especially the 100 off the shelf part.

Sent from my LG-P930 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

It's all good! I know what your getting at, and I agree to an extent.

There are so many good used custom cues out there for cheap it's stupid. Same thing with the R360. shouldn't be able to get such good cues for so little.
 
Welcome to the club! I'd say you spent too much on the cue, but I paid $40 to have my Valley cut in two. It's hard to argue with performance. The difference, to me, is that some people like to have a real Van Gogh, others are equally happy having much less expensive art.

As for the comparison to a car, I'd say that the player/game is more like the car and the cue is more like the steering wheel. Maybe even more like a steering wheel cover.

On the flip side, I don't think I could find any pictures from the last two or three tournaments that showed me with my cue. :(
 
Hi,

I do agreed that hard work and dedication to practice in the game will improve your game no matter what cue(s) you used...however, I think that using a better quality cue to practice and play will give more confident (an edge) than if you didn't. As for what constitute a quality cue..that's really personal and highly up for debate. A cheap McDermott may be your holy grail of cue and to other not. Where as a SW or custom cue for other is their holy grail of cue.

I've been using a different cue each time in tournaments as long I can remember and I can tell you that my performance is highly affected by my choice of cues that I use to play with. Now, I understand sometime you get the rolls and you win irrespective of the quality of cues but I have been doing this for years and personally know for a fact that there are a lot of quality cues on the market however under pressure each will perform different for you. Played with my SW last night and I was in dead stroke and won a local tournament. Week before that using a different cue, also a quality cue but under play didn't perform or give me the confident that i needed.

Not only does sound and feel of a cue is important when finding a quality cue but you can test good quality cues on shots that your are familiar with and be able to understand whether the cue with work for you or not.

Sometime, I pick up a cue and without shooting a ball, I already know that it will be a good player for me. I've literally gone through hundreds of cues from all prices and I know for a fact that you can get lucky with picking up cue for less than 100.00 that will play like at 2K cue. All comes down to quality of shafts, tips, taper etc. So, at any budget, you can find a quality cue but general rule of thumb is that the higher your budget the more the consistent the quality of play will become.

Can you find a $100 cues that perform as good as a 2-4K cue, yes but very rare. If you do find one...keep it. Will a 2-4K perform much better than cheaper/production cue....very high probability that you will like it more.

Anyway, point is, don't dismiss higher quality cue until you try them for yourself. If you goal is to find a cheap cue and modified it to plays as good the more expensive cue that definitely can be done but point is don't discredit the more expensive cue just because they are more expensive. The tiny different can sometime give you the edge that you need to win. For me, the SW just gave me some much confident to drill the ball yesterday...that I couldn't missed.


BR,
Duc.
 
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MahnaMahna said:
I agree with your main points, but look at it this way:

A Ford Focus will get you to the same places a Mercedes will 99% of the time. So why doesn't everyone buy a Focus? Because looks, feel, and attention mean more to some than others.
Click to expand...

I don't think this is the best analogy, but your I see your point. A greater segment of the population will buy Mercedes because they feel it validates them as a successful person (to themselves and, perhaps more importantly for some of them, to others), while the overwhelming majority buy high-end cues because they feel it will make them play better (not counting the collectors).

I completely agree with 9ballsafety's post. I play with a McDermott myself and I am completely satisfied with its playability.
 
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