The DEATH of DRILLS

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Drills…drills….drills

"You better do your drills."

"You’ll never get any better if you don’t do drills."

"All the good players do drills."

There has been a lot of talk about drills on AZ over the years and there are only two types of players – those that do drills and those that don’t. But before talking about the actual value of doing drills let’s clarify what a drill even is?

For me, I have an almost immediate reaction when I hear someone talking about doing a drill. I instantly picture all the objects balls lined up in an L shape around a corner pocket. Or I envision a circle of balls around the center of the table with the cue ball in the middle. Or I even think about the wagon wheel drill. You see, I mainly picture those drills that are primarily concerned with cue ball control. What I don’t consider is someone just shooting the same shot over and over again. This is where the disconnect is when discussing doing drills. Many, many, many great players have said that they do not and have not ever done any drills. I think these players are like me, and they don’t consider shooting the same shot over and over again as doing a drill. Should they consider this as doing a drill? I don’t see any reason not to.

So, I think there are two types of drills, there are those drills that are focused primarily on Cue Ball Control (L drill, wagon wheel, etc.) and there are those drills that are primarily concerned with Stroke Building. These Stroke Building drills would be what I think many of the pros do that say they DO NOT do drills. These are shooting the long straight ins, and maybe drawing the cue ball straight back or following it straight forward. Or firing in balls with the cue ball pinned up against the rail. Or shooting the Bert Kinister replacement shot. These types of drills are mainly focused on cueing technique as opposed to cue ball control.

Okay – now that that’s out of the way – what’s the point of this post? I’ve come to the conclusion that the Cue Ball Control type of drills are…..are you ready for this???..... almost completely worthless. I know….I know….I’m a heretic and I need to be immediately burned at the stake. Why would I say such a thing? For a couple of reasons.

First, most of these Cue Ball Control type of drills have you setup shots that are so easy to pocket (for the average player) that they do not require you to pay strict attention to your cueing. So you can get very sloppy with your technique and still pocket the ball and complete the drill. Does this really help you in the long run? I suppose if you happen to fall into a one pocket rack where all the balls are lined up in a perfect L along the corner pocket – you are going to be in great shape. Other than that, I’m not so sure.

Second, when you are actually playing pool, EACH and EVERY shot that you take you are getting feedback on your cue ball control, this is provided that you are actually determining a landing zone for your cue ball prior to shooting. When trying to work your way through a rack of straight pool for instance, you are getting really good feedback on your cue ball control. I think this sort of feedback is as good as any feedback I get when doing some contrived drill.

What you don’t get on each and every shot while playing pool is feedback on your technique. This is why I’ve come to the conclusion that the Stoke Building types of drills (if you want to call them that) are very important when it comes to actually improving your game. You don’t get to shoot a series of difficult, technique testing shots while playing pool. Actually, the whole point of the game is to avoid these types of shots. The types of shots where you must maintain an absolute stillness of mind and body, and you must deliver your cue with almost laser like precision.

Now I’m not saying that cue ball control drills are totally bad, I’ve just come to the conclusion that they are quite overrated at least when it comes to my game. I only have so much time to work on my game, so I have to be as efficient as possible with my table time. For years, I was just an average amateur player stumbling around the table and not really getting any better. I did all the cue ball control drills and worked a bit on my stroke and played some pool. Basically, I tried to do it all but I really didn’t give any particular part of the game MY ALL. However, a couple years ago I got serious about working on my cueing. I stopped spending so much time on what I now believe to have been –pointless-- cue ball control drills and I just focused on the Stroke Building ones and what do you know – I actually started getting better again.

Ultimately, we all have to figure out this game for ourselves, but if you’re a working stiff like me and your not getting any better maybe it’s time to consider the types of drills you are actually doing because as far as I’m concerned many of them are a colossal waste of time.
 
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Position drills that involve pocketing easy shots are worthless?

You must be joking. The great game of "target pool" developed by Kim Davenport is one of the best position play aids in our sport's history. It is almost entirely about shooting easy shots and controlling the cue ball precisely. If you think you can play "target pool" well without exceptional cueing, you're kidding yourself. When Kim Davenport was using it as a practice aid back in the early 1990's, his position play was as good as everybody but Buddy Hall.

Dismissing time-tested methods of attaining excellence over the glorious green felt is, to me, a bit ridiculous.
 
Position drills that involve pocketing easy shots are worthless?

You must be joking. The great game of "target pool" developed by Kim Davenport is one of the best position play aids in our sport's history. It is almost entirely about shooting easy shots and controlling the cue ball precisely. If you think you can play "target pool" well without exceptional cueing, you're kidding yourself. When Kim Davenport was using it as a practice aid back in the early 1990's, his position play was as good as everybody but Buddy Hall.

Dismissing time-tested methods of attaining excellence over the glorious green felt is, to me, a bit ridiculous.

Kim Davenport was a great player long before Target Pool came out. I would be interested to know if anybody remembers Kim practicing those shots prior to the game coming out.

I know many will disagree with my assessment on this -- I'm used to it.
 
Just a random thought on this subject:

When John Schmidt runs 400 hundred plus balls at straight pool do you think this is good cue ball control practice? Or do you think his time would be better spent doing drills?

Just curious.
 
I know many will disagree with my assessment on this -- I'm used to it.

Not me, and I'm used to it too lol.

Great post, couldn't agree more. Simply put, when you get a stroke, everything else will fall into place automatically.

Striking the CB cleanly will elevate your game to a higher level much more quickly than simply focusing on one element of the game.

Stroke THEN [everything].
 
What you don’t get on each and every shot while playing pool is feedback on your technique. This is why I’ve come to the conclusion that the Stoke Building types of drills (if you want to call them that) are very important when it comes to actually improving your game. You don’t get to shoot a series of difficult, technique testing shots while playing pool. Actually, the whole point of the game is to avoid these types of shots. The types of shots where you must maintain an absolute stillness of mind and body, and you must deliver your cue with almost laser like precision.

Now I’m not saying that cue ball control drills are totally bad, I’ve just come to the conclusion that they are quite overrated at least when it comes to my game. I only have so much time to work on my game, so I have to be as efficient as possible with my table time. For years, I was just an average amateur player stumbling around the table and not really getting any better. I did all the cue ball control drills and worked a bit on my stroke and played some pool. Basically, I tried to do it all but I really didn’t give any particular part of the game MY ALL. However, a couple years ago I got serious about working on my cueing. I stopped spending so much time on what I now believe to have been –pointless-- cue ball control drills and I just focused on the Stroke Building ones and what do you know – I actually started getting better again.

Ultimately, we all have to figure out this game for ourselves, but if you’re a working stiff like me and your not getting any better maybe it’s time to consider the types of drills you are actually doing because as far as I’m concerned many of them are a colossal waste of time.

I disagree with the statement in bold. If you're paying attention, you know when you jabbed the cueball instead of stroked it. If you're not paying attention... well... wtf?

I think dismissing any drill as a "colossal waste of time" is a bit arrogant because it's wholly dependent on the player and what his/her strengths and weaknesses are. At the same time every drill is a waste of time if the player mindlessly goes through the motions and then moves on to the next one.
 
Drills…drills….drills

"You better do your drills."

"You’ll never get any better if you don’t do drills."

"All the good players do drills."

There has been a lot of talk about drills on AZ over the years and there are only two types of players – those that do drills and those that don’t. But before talking about the actual value of doing drills let’s clarify what a drill even is?

For me, I have an almost immediate reaction when I hear someone talking about doing a drill. I instantly picture all the objects balls lined up in an L shape around a corner pocket. Or I envision a circle of balls around the center of the table with the cue ball in the middle. Or I even think about the wagon wheel drill. You see, I mainly picture those drills that are primarily concerned with cue ball control. What I don’t consider is someone just shooting the same shot over and over again. This is where the disconnect is when discussing doing drills. Many, many, many great players have said that they do not and have not ever done any drills. I think these players are like me, and they don’t consider shooting the same shot over and over again as doing a drill. Should they consider this as doing a drill? I don’t see any reason not to.

So, I think there are two types of drills, there are those drills that are focused primarily on Cue Ball Control (L drill, wagon wheel, etc.) and there are those drills that are primarily concerned with Stroke Building. These Stroke Building drills would be what I think many of the pros do that say they DO NOT do drills. These are shooting the long straight ins, and maybe drawing the cue ball straight back or following it straight forward. Or firing in balls with the cue ball pinned up against the rail. Or shooting the Bert Kinister replacement shot. These types of drills are mainly focused on cueing technique as opposed to cue ball control.

Okay – now that that’s out of the way – what’s the point of this post? I’ve come to the conclusion that the Cue Ball Control type of drills are…..are you ready for this???..... almost completely worthless. I know….I know….I’m a heretic and I need to be immediately burned at the stake. Why would I say such a thing? For a couple of reasons.

First, most of these Cue Ball Control type of drills have you setup shots that are so easy to pocket (for the average player) that they do not require you to pay strict attention to your cueing. So you can get very sloppy with your technique and still pocket the ball and complete the drill. Does this really help you in the long run? I suppose if you happen to fall into a one pocket rack where all the balls are lined up in a perfect L along the corner pocket – you are going to be in great shape. Other than that, I’m not so sure.

Second, when you are actually playing pool, EACH and EVERY shot that you take you are getting feedback on your cue ball control, this is provided that you are actually determining a landing zone for your cue ball prior to shooting. When trying to work your way through a rack of straight pool for instance, you are getting really good feedback on your cue ball control. I think this sort of feedback is as good as any feedback I get when doing some contrived drill.

What you don’t get on each and every shot while playing pool is feedback on your technique. This is why I’ve come to the conclusion that the Stoke Building types of drills (if you want to call them that) are very important when it comes to actually improving your game. You don’t get to shoot a series of difficult, technique testing shots while playing pool. Actually, the whole point of the game is to avoid these types of shots. The types of shots where you must maintain an absolute stillness of mind and body, and you must deliver your cue with almost laser like precision.

Now I’m not saying that cue ball control drills are totally bad, I’ve just come to the conclusion that they are quite overrated at least when it comes to my game. I only have so much time to work on my game, so I have to be as efficient as possible with my table time. For years, I was just an average amateur player stumbling around the table and not really getting any better. I did all the cue ball control drills and worked a bit on my stroke and played some pool. Basically, I tried to do it all but I really didn’t give any particular part of the game MY ALL. However, a couple years ago I got serious about working on my cueing. I stopped spending so much time on what I now believe to have been –pointless-- cue ball control drills and I just focused on the Stroke Building ones and what do you know – I actually started getting better again.

Ultimately, we all have to figure out this game for ourselves, but if you’re a working stiff like me and your not getting any better maybe it’s time to consider the types of drills you are actually doing because as far as I’m concerned many of them are a colossal waste of time.

100pct agree.
Didn't realize who posted this till after I read it - I might need all the breaks if we play tonight lol.
Will let you know if I can make it tonight
Great post!
Jason
 
Drills are really as useful as you make them. The stroke building drills that you speak can be useless if a player isn't actively trying to work on a aspect of their technique. But of course if they are doing it properly, then those long straight ins will pay great dividends.

Position drills are not intended to challenge your technique or potting ability, they are intended to teach and improve position play. To get the most benefit you need to work on them until you can complete the drill perfectly. And by that I mean, it does not count if the last 4 balls you are shooting at from seven feet away at a 89 degree angle.

I used to be anti-drill myself until I started doing them in snooker. A lot of snooker professionals swear by them. In Stuart Pettman`s book he said the cue ball control drills burn the position of the reds into your memory so you can from any red to any colour or any colour to any red.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pthXRHxj18A - Ronnie doing drills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Rx6YCAgtE - ken doherty practice

I avoided doing the line up in snooker for a long time. I thought it was silly and when the hell would the balls ever line up like that in a real game! Well, it was also because I sucked at it too lol. I eventually got to work on the line up because if I couldn`t do it, it was probably because of a flaw in my game. Thankfully I did, because it`s helped a lot.

I don`t think you NEED to do them to improve, that`s obviously false. But evey routine has a purpose, some are intended to improve your technique and others position play or safety. And each position drills should be focused on a certain type of cue ball control, whether it be going up and down the table, draw shots etc.
 
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Drills…drills….drills

"You better do your drills."

"You’ll never get any better if you don’t do drills."

"All the good players do drills."

There has been a lot of talk about drills on AZ over the years and there are only two types of players – those that do drills and those that don’t. But before talking about the actual value of doing drills let’s clarify what a drill even is?

For me, I have an almost immediate reaction when I hear someone talking about doing a drill. I instantly picture all the objects balls lined up in an L shape around a corner pocket. Or I envision a circle of balls around the center of the table with the cue ball in the middle. Or I even think about the wagon wheel drill. You see, I mainly picture those drills that are primarily concerned with cue ball control. What I don’t consider is someone just shooting the same shot over and over again. This is where the disconnect is when discussing doing drills. Many, many, many great players have said that they do not and have not ever done any drills. I think these players are like me, and they don’t consider shooting the same shot over and over again as doing a drill. Should they consider this as doing a drill? I don’t see any reason not to.

So, I think there are two types of drills, there are those drills that are focused primarily on Cue Ball Control (L drill, wagon wheel, etc.) and there are those drills that are primarily concerned with Stroke Building. These Stroke Building drills would be what I think many of the pros do that say they DO NOT do drills. These are shooting the long straight ins, and maybe drawing the cue ball straight back or following it straight forward. Or firing in balls with the cue ball pinned up against the rail. Or shooting the Bert Kinister replacement shot. These types of drills are mainly focused on cueing technique as opposed to cue ball control.

Okay – now that that’s out of the way – what’s the point of this post? I’ve come to the conclusion that the Cue Ball Control type of drills are…..are you ready for this???..... almost completely worthless. I know….I know….I’m a heretic and I need to be immediately burned at the stake. Why would I say such a thing? For a couple of reasons.

First, most of these Cue Ball Control type of drills have you setup shots that are so easy to pocket (for the average player) that they do not require you to pay strict attention to your cueing. So you can get very sloppy with your technique and still pocket the ball and complete the drill. Does this really help you in the long run? I suppose if you happen to fall into a one pocket rack where all the balls are lined up in a perfect L along the corner pocket – you are going to be in great shape. Other than that, I’m not so sure.

Second, when you are actually playing pool, EACH and EVERY shot that you take you are getting feedback on your cue ball control, this is provided that you are actually determining a landing zone for your cue ball prior to shooting. When trying to work your way through a rack of straight pool for instance, you are getting really good feedback on your cue ball control. I think this sort of feedback is as good as any feedback I get when doing some contrived drill.

What you don’t get on each and every shot while playing pool is feedback on your technique. This is why I’ve come to the conclusion that the Stoke Building types of drills (if you want to call them that) are very important when it comes to actually improving your game. You don’t get to shoot a series of difficult, technique testing shots while playing pool. Actually, the whole point of the game is to avoid these types of shots. The types of shots where you must maintain an absolute stillness of mind and body, and you must deliver your cue with almost laser like precision.

Now I’m not saying that cue ball control drills are totally bad, I’ve just come to the conclusion that they are quite overrated at least when it comes to my game. I only have so much time to work on my game, so I have to be as efficient as possible with my table time. For years, I was just an average amateur player stumbling around the table and not really getting any better. I did all the cue ball control drills and worked a bit on my stroke and played some pool. Basically, I tried to do it all but I really didn’t give any particular part of the game MY ALL. However, a couple years ago I got serious about working on my cueing. I stopped spending so much time on what I now believe to have been –pointless-- cue ball control drills and I just focused on the Stroke Building ones and what do you know – I actually started getting better again.

Ultimately, we all have to figure out this game for ourselves, but if you’re a working stiff like me and your not getting any better maybe it’s time to consider the types of drills you are actually doing because as far as I’m concerned many of them are a colossal waste of time.
Imo there are 2 kinds of training in pool.1st playing the ghost which improve everything(technique-focus-at any given moment) so you know instantly what if you are hot shot or you are behind the competition,money game etc..asumoing you are an A or B player and second personal details training.Only you know your weakeneses:sorry:so if a certain type of shot dont work and you know it ,play it a thousend times till you own it.It maybe a draw shot or a two rails safe shot or the break shot.Repetition:( will work.Any way if you want to play at a high level or participate at USOpen for example you must play hours every single day otherwise you will typing like me and my horibore english grammar.:embarrassed2:
 
For someone of my level (C?) cue ball control drills are very helpful. Of course, I have to make sure that I'm concentrating on my stroke at the same time -- that way, it's a stroking drill and a cue ball control drill at the same time.

If I'm doing a "draw drill" what good is it if I'm not using a good stroke?

Whenever the CB does something that is very different from what I expected, I re-set that shot and do a "clock drill," starting with stun, follow, draw then various sidespins. The best instances are when I find that none of the CB spins resulted in the desired outcome -- i.e. I was trying to do something that couldn't be done (happens to me most frequently when the OB is near/on a rail).

Funny how SVB says he never does drills -- then we see him shooting the same shot over and over during a TAR interview. I guess he doesn't view it as a drill. It was great to watch him practice a 4-rail one-pocket shot in TAR45 podcast interview.
 
I don't think it's a question of "either position drills or stroke drills" and I certainly don't think the position drills are worthless. Both, IMO, do great things in helping to develop one's game. I agree that if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose two out three activities for my solitary pool time, I would choose stroke drills and straight pool and leave out the position drills. In real life, however, our choices are not so narrowly constrained. Thus, I would recommend that within your practice time, setting aside even ten minutes to work on a particular position route (and maybe its variations) can pay huge dividends. Take a one or two rail clock system drill for example. With the limited table time available to folks like you and I, we might hit that shot more times in that ten minutes than we will in a few days of play.

We may choose the right shots and see good patterns, but executing the individual shots with proper direction and speed is what enables us to stay in those patterns. We all know that repetition is key in developing the touch and feel required to do this consistently. If one cannot get many hours a day on the table, the only way to get those reps in is with some focused practice.
 
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What about both?

I still do some basic short positional drills sometimes but I too have come to the realization that stroke is the most important element to your pool game.

One of my favorite drills to do (especially when transitioning from bar box to big table, or visa versa) is to set up a ball in the "kitchen" that you want to get position on and then put an OB on the spot. Pick a place to shoot from and work on potting the long spot shot AND bring the CB back down table for position on the ball you put in the kitchen.

I don't know if that's what you are talking about with the repeating long shots, but that's how I practice a lot. I make the long shots, but always have a ball back that I get position on. Nothing will bring out a flaw in your stroke like a long shot that requires CB manipulation to get shape on another ball.
 
I don't think it's a question of "either position drills or stroke drills" and I certainly don't think the position drills are worthless. Both, IMO, do great things in helping to develop one's game. I agree that if someone put a gun to my head and made me choose two out three activities for my solitary pool time, I would choose stroke drills and straight pool and leave out the position drills. In real life, however, our choices are not so narrowly constrained. Thus, I would recommend that within your practice time, setting aside even ten minutes to work on a particular position route (and maybe its variations) can pay huge dividends. Take a one or two rail clock system drill for example. With the limited table time available to folks like you and I, we might hit that shot more times in that ten minutes than we will in a few days of play.

We may choose the right shots and see good patterns, but executing the individual shots with proper direction and speed is what enables us to stay in those patterns. We all know that repetition is key in developing the touch and feel required to do this consistently. If one cannot get many hours a day on the table, the only way to get those reps in is with some focused practice.

I agree with that man:With the limited table time available to folks like you and I, we might hit that shot more times in that ten minutes than we will in a few days of play.But I prefer to play not to practice but thats my opinion:grin:
 
Drills are really as useful as you make them. The stroke building drills that you speak can be useless if a player isn't actively trying to work on a aspect of their technique. But of course if they are doing it properly, then those long straight ins will pay great dividends.

Position drills are not intended to challenge your technique or potting ability, they are intended to teach and improve position play. To get the most benefit you need to work on them until you can complete the drill perfectly. And by that I mean, it does not count if the last 4 balls you are shooting at from seven feet away at a 89 degree angle.

I used to be anti-drill myself until I started doing them in snooker. A lot of snooker professionals swear by them. In Stuart Pettman`s book he said the cue ball control drills burn the position of the reds into your memory so you can from any red to any colour or any colour to any red.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pthXRHxj18A - Ronnie doing drills
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4Rx6YCAgtE - ken doherty practice

I avoided doing the line up in snooker for a long time. I thought it was silly and when the hell would the balls ever line up like that in a real game! Well, it was also because I sucked at it too lol. I eventually got to work on the line up because if I couldn`t do it, it was probably because of a flaw in my game. Thankfully I did, because it`s helped a lot.

I don`t think you NEED to do them to improve, that`s obviously false. But evey routine has a purpose, some are intended to improve your technique and others position play or safety. And each position drills should be focused on a certain type of cue ball control, whether it be going up and down the table, draw shots etc.

Good reply. You make a good point. But I think snooker is a slightly different animal.

What I saw in quickly viewing your linked videos was two guys playing snooker (albeit with the balls arranged differently). They weren't doing specific cue ball control drills necessarily.

Watching Ken Doherty, I saw him do some Stroke Training drills and then I saw him trying to run out some snooker frames without bothering with the first portion of each frame -- the break and the eventual opening up of the balls. While I guess those are drills on the one hand, on the other they certainly aren't the type of drills I was referring to as worthless.

My whole trouble with pool drills is everybody says all the pros do them but upon closer inspection what you find is many do not and the ones that do tend to spend much more time on the Stroke Training drills than on the cute little cue ball control ones.
 
Alex said that EVERY time he feels out of line plays 1000? times (short of saying)the straight in shot(stop-draw-follow) like this :ball at the center of the table , cue ball 2-5 inches in front of a corner pocket .Thats a straight in shot at the opposite corner pocket.(Alex Pagulayan)
 
Alex said that EVERY time he feels out of line plays 1000? times (short of saying)the straight in shot(stop-draw-follow) like this :ball at the center of the table , cue ball 2-5 inches in front of a corner pocket .Thats a straight in shot at the opposite corner pocket.(Alex Pagulayan)

Thank you for adding that. I have been paying very close attention to what the pros have to say about drills and this is a very common shot that I find they spend a lot of time on. The other drills -- not so much.
 
I think a lot of the anti-dril anti-instruction mindset in pool comes from pools lack of maturity as a sport. In sports where there is a lot of money involved at the highest level there is a real incentive to get an edge over the competition. In doing so the game is studied and coaches, instructors, and regimented practice are integrated into the game at every level, but especially at the sport's highest level. Since pool hasn't really experienced that a lot of people don't see the need since they can just become better at matching up rather than playing since the money in pool has often been in gambling rather than tournaments. It's very similar to how golf used to be prior to the early to mid 90s.
 
Not me, and I'm used to it too lol.

Great post, couldn't agree more. Simply put, when you get a stroke, everything else will fall into place automatically.

Striking the CB cleanly will elevate your game to a higher level much more quickly than simply focusing on one element of the game.

Stroke THEN [everything].

Yes, I guess those break drills SVB does were pointless, I mean, his break does suck :rolleyes:
 
My whole trouble with pool drills is everybody says all the pros do them but upon closer inspection what you find is many do not and the ones that do tend to spend much more time on the Stroke Training drills than on the cute little cue ball control ones.

most pros know how to play position
for them when they have a problem its usually something to do with their mechanics
thats why they go back to the fundamentals
as a developing player you need to improve your stroke and you need to be able to control the cue ball
with a bad stroke all the position drills in the world arent going to help if you cant hit the cue ball where you want to.
the feedback you are getting from an inconsistent stroke doesnt tell you accurately what happened
you have heard the saying an amateur practices a shot until he can make it
a pro practices until he cant miss it
the L drill you described for example requires you to make 15 correct shots in a row
thats a level of consistency to strive for
so what im saying is
asa developing player you need to work on both stroke drills and position drills how much of each depends on the quality of your stroke
jmho
icbw
 
Kim Davenport was a great player long before Target Pool came out. I would be interested to know if anybody remembers Kim practicing those shots prior to the game coming out.

I know many will disagree with my assessment on this -- I'm used to it.

Geez, countless people improved their position play skills with Target Pool and I'm one of them.

Some good comments in this thread. What drills players do or need is a function of their skill level. Virtually all drills have value. Some drills focus on stroke alone, others on angle management alone, others on speed control alone, others on pocketing alone, others on position play alone, some on kicking alone, and yet others on the break alone. I wouldn't steer anyone away from any of these drills as a means of developing a facet of their game.
 
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