What would your opponent do here? (part II: shot after the return break)

Which of the return break shot do you like the most? (check all that apply)

  • 2a

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • 2b

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • 2c

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • 2d

    Votes: 5 45.5%

  • 2e

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • 2f

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • 2g

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • 2h

    Votes: 2 18.2%

  • 2i

    Votes: 1 9.1%

  • will post mine later

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .
cuetable

cuetable

Line Up Your Best Shot!
Silver Member
... continued from previous thread: What would you do here? (one pocket: return break)

Wow, a lot of shots from the last thread! I think we need to start another thread to talk about the next shot.

I have organized everyone's shots and listed them below. In CueTable I added the each solution and possible mistake to new pages. (use page up/page down button or keyboard keys to navigate)

Let's study what will happen after your return break shot! (shot 3) Guess what the possible moves your opponent will do and estimate the demage report for the worst situation. (press capital "K" and then capital "N" to see the result of a layout with line drawings) In one pocket, it might take a few moves before one realize whether a shot is good or not.


Thanks to everyone for joining the discussion. Feel free to edit the layouts or add pages if you'd like. (make sure you hit page save or press "S" key before you export the data ) Remember to use the number index (2a, 2b... 2z) as reference to keep everything organized. Also, add any coments or questions you have. This is all public; anyone can share and contribute.

Cheers
Wei

2a take an intentional foul, give up a ball and play safe for sure. (macguy,cuetechasaurus;Grady's and Billy's videotapes talk about this too)

2b, find a away to hide the QB by the 10 (shag_fu,WVU)

2c, bank the 1 to our side and hide the QB by the 10

2d, bank the 14 away and stick the QB to the 15 (Tennesseejoe,macguy,Fast Lenny)

2e, bank the 5 uptable and hide below the 10 (supergreenman,AZE)

2f, hit the 14 and draw back to the 7 and 2 (Cory in DC)

2g, bank the 14 into the pack and hide the QB uptable (uwate,sixpack,Black-Balled)

2h, Kick bank the 10 and have the QB be around where the 12 is(iusedtoberich)

2i, bank the 1 back to the pack and 3 rail the QB to hide behind the 10 (Cory in DC)

.
.
.
2z, shot by JSP


ps. If you have a better return break shot, you can post it to the previous thread. I will update it to this list.
link to the previous thread
 
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When I click the linx to the break replies, they come up as they were after the break...am I missing something?
 
Black-Balled said:
When I click the linx to the break replies, they come up as they were after the break...am I missing something?
Click to expand...
Wei doesn't know how to use his own table?

Fred <~~~ thinks there might be some bugs to work out.
 
Black-Balled said:
When I click the linx to the break replies, they come up as they were after the break...am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Page 1 shows the initial position, so you need to navigate to Page 2 to see the suggested solutions. Use the Page Up/Down navigation symbol on the bottom right side of the Pool Table diagram. :)
 
cuetable said:
... continued from previous thread: What would you do here? (one pocket: return break)

Wow, a lot of shots from the last thread! I think we need to start another thread to talk about the next shot.

I have organized everyone's shots and listed them below. In CueTable I added the each solution and possible mistake to new pages. (use page up/page down button or keyboard keys to navigate)

Let's study what will happen after your return break shot! (shot 3) Guess what the possible moves your opponent will do and estimate the demage report for the worst situation. (press capital "K" and then capital "N" to see the result of a layout with line drawings) In one pocket, it might take a few moves before one realize whether a shot is good or not.


Thanks to everyone for joining the discussion. Feel free to edit the layouts or add pages if you'd like. (make sure you hit page save or press "S" key before you export the data ) Remember to use the number index (2a, 2b... 2z) as reference to keep everything organized. Also, add any coments or questions you have. This is all public; anyone can share and contribute.

Cheers
Wei

2a take an intentional foul, give up a ball and play safe for sure. (macguy;Grady's and Billy's videotapes talk about this too)

2b, find a away to hide the QB by the 10 (shag_fu,WVU)

2c, bank the 1 to our side and hide the QB by the 10

2d, bank the 14 away and stick the QB to the 15 (Tennesseejoe,macguy)

2e, bank the 5 uptable and hide below the 10 (supergreenman,AZE)

2f, hit the 14 and draw back to the 7 and 2 (Cory in DC)

2g, bank the 14 into the pack and hide the QB uptable (uwate,sixpack,Black-Balled)

2h, Kick bank the 10 and have the QB be around where the 12 is(iusedtoberich)

2i, bank the 1 back to the pack and 3 rail the QB to hide behind the 10 (Cory in DC)

.
.
.
2z, shot by JSP


ps. If you have a better return break shot, you can post it to the previous thread. I will update it to this list.
link to the previous thread
Click to expand...


In a few shots you don't have the cue ball position correct, you are selling out shots. For example in the shot where you bank the 14 into the pack. You don't leave the cue ball where the guy can see the 10 just run out on you like you have it, you want to double him up with the 1 ball.
 
cuetable said:
2g, bank the 14 into the pack and hide the QB uptable (uwate,sixpack,Black-Balled)
Click to expand...

The uwate/Black-Balled/sixpack shot was the most popular, but it still looks like a sell-out to me.

Granted, I'd usually find a way to only get 1 ball out of that position. But something like this would seem to work for a good player: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...KQD3NDnf4OEDX2PVEc2kVEc3kXgo3kWrf3kRHq3kRHq@@

From here, off my recommended draw shot, the breaker (pocket B) looks to be in a bit of trouble: http://CueTable.com/P/?@1AGnp4BCYH3...IDgv3JYfK4KKxh3LaiG3MKQD3NHgP3ODvD3PAMF3Rcxv@
Though this looks like a decent return shot: http://CueTable.com/P/?@1AGnp4BCYH3...jHes3jHes3jHmr3kAMF3kByt2kawe2kCrd1kapw1kapw@

NOTE: The links I posted above take you to the original, post-break, layout of the balls. To see the the shots I'm trying to diagram, look at Page 2/2. (Wei--how do I avoid doing this?) I think I've fixed this now. Thanks.

Cory
 
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Dear Cory:
If you just want to show and single page layout instead of the whole sequence, simply press Page Save button or capital "S" on any layout. While that page is saved, its data is also automatically copied to clipboard at the same time. You can open a new browser window and press control-V to paste the data in just to test.
Thanks
Wei
 
Black-Balled said:
I see-> thanks for the pointer. Fred, you paying attention?
Click to expand...

Yup. The bugs that need to work out are between my ears.

Fred <~~~ needs a more obvious sign that there are more than 1 page.
 
Maybe out of that list we can pick 1 or 2 of the best shots(preferably we can agree on 1)everybody pick 3 and we pick the one/or two with the most votes, then everybody come up with a 3rd shot for those then repeat the process for the rest of the rack. I don't feel like doing a 3rd shot for the whole list.

I like 2c,d,and e the rest either sell out or are extremely hard to execute.
 
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macguy said:
In a few shots you don't have the cue ball position correct, you are selling out shots. For example in the shot where you bank the 14 into the pack. You don't leave the cue ball where the guy can see the 10 just run out on you like you have it, you want to double him up with the 1 ball.
Click to expand...

Hi macguy:
I actually drew the possible outcome and mistakes on purpose (as stated) to help people start thinking of:

1, risk analysis (where are the safe zones and how hard would it be to get QB there.
2, demage report (how bad could things get)

This is an open ended discussion with no fixed answers, any shots or mistakes are all encouraged. Strong opinions are great, they show one's confidence and knowledge. In these two threads I am simply trying to help organizing people sharing their insights and ideas in an objective fashion. Please feel free to post any comments, corrections or new ideas :)


Alright, let's extend stories from 2d and 2g for now. We have 2 different outcomes for each scenario, the good and the bad:

2d-
Good: The 14 and 12 came to your side and QB frozen to the 15. What can your opponent do here?
2d-best outcome

Bad: The 14 and 12 came to your side and QB went a little to far. What would the best way for your opponent to run?
2d-worst outcome

2g-
Good: the speed control was great, the QB frozen to the rail and the 10 got blocked. What can your opponent do here? This is similar to shot 2a: intentional foul..
2g-best outcome

Bad: many beautiful women around made it difficult to focus. the shot was not excuted well and the 10 became visible, what would the best way for your opponent to run?
2g-worst outcome

cheers
Wei
 
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cuetable said:
Good: the speed control was great, the QB frozen to the rail and the 10 is blocked. What can your opponent do here? This is similar to shot 2a: intentional foul..
2g-best outcome

Bad: break shot was not excuted well and the 10 is visible, what would the best way for your opponent to run?
2g-worst outcome

cheers
Wei
Click to expand...

Return to the good outcome: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...HCQo3IDgv3JYfK4KKxh3LaiG3MKQD3NDnf4OEDX2PXpi@

Return to /run following the bad outcome: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...kPLS3kYSm3kbOc3kKmL3kKGX4kaSd4kSic4kSBg4kRcj@

These are fun, I'm finally starting to get the hang of the new WEI table.

Cory

P.S. I think this is the shot macguy means would be a good way to bank the 14 into the stack: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...yF3iGBc3jDvD3jBbJ4kYkl3kCHW2kbqd2kVtj2kPoTzc@

P.P.S. Where are all the AZB 1P players?
 
The bank on the 14 towards the 6 is a cueball position shot first, with the secondary effect of moving the 4 towards the hole from the 6/8/4 combo. The cueball is nearly a ball off the side rail and you can easily cue a centerball/hair of follow hit to float over to the side rail. If the cueball can be put within 2 cueballs of the side rail you have your opponent doubled up.

I still like this shot best and do not think its a sell out as much as folks here are making it to be. Its the only shot I see too that has a legitimate shot at scoring a ball and allowing you to pull the best move of all: 8 and Out.
 
Cory in DC said:
Return to the good outcome: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...HCQo3IDgv3JYfK4KKxh3LaiG3MKQD3NDnf4OEDX2PXpi@

Return to /run following the bad outcome: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...kPLS3kYSm3kbOc3kKmL3kKGX4kaSd4kSic4kSBg4kRcj@

These are fun, I'm finally starting to get the hang of the new WEI table.

Cory

P.S. I think this is the shot macguy means would be a good way to bank the 14 into the stack: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...yF3iGBc3jDvD3jBbJ4kYkl3kCHW2kbqd2kVtj2kPoTzc@

P.P.S. Where are all the AZB 1P players?
Click to expand...
Hey!!! you're not supposed to run the rack lol. I thought we were doing this one shot at a time.
 
shag_fu said:
Solution for 2c.Added Page 3: http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...ODvD3PbRx3UKvr2UTAi3UaAp3UaAp3kbRx3kKPJ4kbGI@
Click to expand...
I may not be reading your drawings right, but (1) I think you posted the same shot in both posts, and (2) your shot as drawn has the 1 ball going implausibly far and cutting back too sharply, if you're really going to hold the CB on the rail as you drew. It would probably end up something like http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKvr4BCYH3...MKQD3NEsY3ODvD3PbRx3UKvr2UOwF3kbRx3kKPJ4kbGI@, which isn't too bad anyway, though you could end up failing to get a rail.

Cory
 
2D for sue,i would think its the easiest to execute and leaves your opponent with not alot of easy options.
 
Shots after 2g (and a little bit about 2a)

Hi there, I drew some possible outcomes in answering shot 2g. Again, any comments, correction and insights are welcome.

If the 4 do drop and you play a perfect safe freezing the QB to the bottom rail, what would you do here?
2g-3a 4 ball dropped and you have to shoot again

If you do knock a ball towards your pocket, the chance for your opponent to play a safe can be higher.
2g-3b possible counter safe

Also, if the QB wasn't frozen to the rail there might even be an offensive shot for your opponent, what would you do?
2g-3c 2 rail kick the 5

Comparing 2a and 2g :

2a is easier to execute and it's unlikely your opponent will run out if you miscue on this, but you have to pay a ball. this would be a "buying time off" shot.:o

In 2g the pack got altered a bit. You might gain some advantage to your side. However, the chance for your opponent to run balls upon mistake can be higher too. This would be an "intensifying the issue" shot.:mad:

have fun!

cheers
Wei
 
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