Help me overcome my resistance to cte pro one

Pro One brings you on the shot line, no angled cue.

Manual CTE has an angled cue and is less natural.

Have you seen Stans DVDs?

Gerry

bbb said:

i am sincere in seeking anything that will help me play better
so please do turn this into a bashing or flame thread
here me out and lets have a rational discussion
its not personal
first let me say i dont know alot about cte
but heres my sticking point
up until now ive been trying to learn how to align myself to the shot line and deliver a straight stroke
from the litle ive watched about pivots and sweep it seem you get on the shot line and then purposely shoot angled off your alignment
as stan said in a video
my V (of an open bridge) is on the edge of the center line
how is shooting "not straight on line"to how you are set up supposed to be a good thing
please help me understand what i obviously dont get
thanks for all the people that respond constructively

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I highly recommend you get DVD2. It's well worth the money and time spent watching them. For now, try shooting some zero-angle shots into a side pocket. Place the OB one diamond out from the rail and the CB 1-1 1/2 diamonds from the OB. Shot 1: LCBE-OBA, CCB ROBE, right sweep. Shot 2: RCBE-OBC, CCB-LOBE, left sweep. Shoot both shots with a center-ball tip placement. Your CB should stop dead. Once you master those then you can try longer zero-angle shots from the corners.

Shoot the shots first, then ask yourself why.

bbb said:

i am sincere in seeking anything that will help me play better
so please do turn this into a bashing or flame thread
here me out and lets have a rational discussion
its not personal
first let me say i dont know alot about cte
but heres my sticking point
up until now ive been trying to learn how to align myself to the shot line and deliver a straight stroke
from the litle ive watched about pivots and sweep it seem you get on the shot line and then purposely shoot angled off your alignment
as stan said in a video
my V (of an open bridge) is on the edge of the center line
how is shooting "not straight on line"to how you are set up supposed to be a good thing
please help me understand what i obviously dont get
thanks for all the people that respond constructively

Click to expand...

I am not sure what you mean. You are always shooting on a straight line. What I did is use chalk to mark a perfect shot line. From there I used CTE until I could consistently land on the shot line. ProOne took and is taking a bit more effort but the end result is a much smoother transition from visual alignment to shooting position.

Once you're on the shot line you should be delivering a straight stroke down that line.

For me, when I use ProOne to go from the upright position to the shooting position I am on the perfect ghost ball position already compensated for contact induced throw. I know this because I have tested it against ghost ball for many shot positions.

So if the basic issue for you is the thought that somehow you would be coming into the shot at and landing at anything but a straight line to GB center then you can banish that thought because it's not true. The v-notch in your bridge hand will always land on the right shot line to connect to the center of the cue ball which connects to the center of the ghost ball (if you were to place a ghost ball template you would see it clearly).

Trust is the problem. For me when I started using these aming methods a lot of shots looked wrong. I finally figured out that the reason they looked wrong is because all my life I had chosen the wrong shot line and then steered the cueball because I had learned that adding a touch of outside worked to "help" the ball get in. So with CTE/ProOne I had to get to a point where I trusted the shot line given until I could see that it's right.

bbb said:

if you are shooting a stop shot why are you"sweeping"?

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Sweeping has nothing to do with what you want to do with the shot in regards to sidepsin or lack of spin. Sweeping is the motion of your eyes as you sweep from the outside into center ball. Your body and bridge hand follow your eyes from the left across the ball and down to center ball. So you would sweep on every shot because that's the natural movement to get to center cue ball. A stop shot means only that you don't use any side spin. You would still use ProOne to sight it and get down on the shot.

bbb said:

jb
your repsonces have been the most clear answers i have ever read
would it be correct to say that the shot line in cte ( which you have to do with ghost ball too) compensates for the difference in aim point and contact point???
also wat happens when you want to use english???
lastly how does it work for banks??
again thank you for a very objective/ well thought out / insightfull answer......:thumbup:

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The shot line in CTE already accounts for throw. I don't know what you mean by aim point and contact point. In CTE you will not use any aiming points or contact points. You will use lines. The only line you will not actually see until you are down on it is the shot line.

If you want to use side spin then you can do it one of two ways in my experience. You can sight the shot and go down with side spin applied or you can use back hand english. It works the same as any other method, when you use sidespin you have to account for deflection. This is going to be a function of you knowing what your cue will do. But the amount of side spin you actually need is much less than most amateurs think they need. Basically you are using CTE to get a baseline center cue ball shot line and from that line the adjustment for any amount of sidepsin is so slight that with practice it comes easy to figure out how much and how to apply it. The first task is learning to aim for centerball hits. Once that is accomplished you will easily learn that you can do a lot more with less sidespin and how to apply it.

Banks with CTE are the nuts my friend. Basically it's like this. Once you see that there is a CTE solution directly to a pocket then most of the time if the bank is physically possible there will be a CTE aiming solution that works for it. Often there will be solutions that work for several banks from the same position.

So just to give you an example - lets say that the object ball is sitting one diamond up and one diamond over away from the lower left corner. The cue ball is on the spot. With CTE you can cut this in using right edge-edge to b-inside sweep (I think sitting here imagining the shot). So if you wanted to bank it to the lower right corner the solution might be as simple as right edge to b - outside sweep, or edge to A inside sweep. One of those two WILL work for the bank every single time. Now, if from that same position you want to bank it two rails into the lower left corner then it's possible that edge to C inside works and that's the two railer. Thing is that once you find the CTE/ProOne key then it works every time. And you can get there very fast using process of elimination starting with the baseline of a center ball shot directly to the pocket. You know that one works to pocket the ball so you move from there to the next one and it becomes pretty easy to rapidly move them visually to connect to the correct one for the bank.

This is how Stan and others are able to bank one, two, three and four rails from any position, where such banks are possible. It becomes easy to read any shot and if multiple banks are possible then you can use CTE/ProOne keys to unlock the shot line to have a VERY good chance to make those banks. One railers become almost hangers.

A word of caution though - a lot of banks will still need for the shooter to use speed and spin because the rubber and the cloth and the humidity as well as the condition of the balls also affect banks. So a bank that is lined up perfectly might go short or long depending on the conditions. This is something that relies on your own experience and practice. CTE/ProOne can get you to the shot line and then it's your pool sense that carries you through the execution of that shot. But let me tell you, banks are a lot easier if you are on the right shot line to begin with.

bbb said:

john again thank you for an excellent reply
what i meant by aiming point and contact point is except for a straight in shot
the contact point on the cue ball is not on the vertical axis in the front of the cue ball
as evidence when you want a half ball hit you aim at the edge of the object ball for example(center to edge in a way maybe not in the center to edge pro one meaning))
so where you are "aiming" is not where you are hitting if you understand what im saying

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That terminology or way of thinking really isn't applicable with Pro One. I don't mean this to be insulting but it is obvious from your questions that you don't have any understanding of Pro One. Buy DVD 2 and that will change.

You seemed to be confused about shot line, aim line, etc.. There is the fixed cb perception you obtain from the visuals. The sweep takes you to the aim line. The shooter sweeps right or left (or inside or outside if you prefer that terminology) dependent upon whether the shot needs to be thinner or thicker. There are essentially 4 perceptions, 15, 30, 45 and 60 degrees. While most sous are reasonably obvious, it does take experience and table time to know which perception that is needed for some shots. That comes with practice and table time.

Stan covers English in great detail in DVD2. He has subsequently released a couple of You Tube videos that cover it in even more detail and using an angled cue.

If you don't care enough to make the $49 investment in dvd 2, there's no way you'll ever care enough to invest the table time to learn it.

bbb said:

john again thank you for an excellent reply
what i meant by aiming point and contact point is except for a straight in shot
the contact point on the cue ball is not on the vertical axis in the front of the cue ball
as evidence when you want a half ball hit you aim at the edge of the object ball for example(center to edge in a way maybe not in the center to edge pro one meaning))
so where you are "aiming" is not where you are hitting if you understand what im saying

Click to expand...

This is correct and the single biggest misconception regarding Center to Edge aiming.

Using the Center to Edge line as an initial sighting orientation does NOT equal a half ball hit.

IF you were to lay your cue down on that line then it would be a pure half ball hit.

Here is a video I did called Convergence Lines where I used balls to indicate the difference between the CTE line and the Ghost Ball shot lines. As you can clearly see from this demonstration there is only one position where the CTE line and the ghost ball shot lines overlap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nETWcUmJsgs

I do these videos to chase concepts that I have regarding this method and get clarity in my head. They serve to be discussion points among those who are interested in CTE. For almost all of these shots I have set up you would use the CTE line PLUS the ABC line PLUS either an inside pivot or an outside pivot to orient yourself to the shot. For the thin and very thin cuts you would dispense with the CTE line and use a single line visual.

May I ask if you own the DVDs? If not then these instructions will almost be meaningless to you.

I was sincerely trying to help. Sorry you took it the wrong way.

Regardless of all that, nice move purchasing Stan's DVD. Good luck learning the system.

bbb said:

john i watched the video
it makes sense that the lines converge since there is only one shot line
after i watch the video a few times i guess ill understand why you start outside the line and come into it rather than just get behind it and go down on it (that doesnt sound right. but you know what i mean...)

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Because if I don't draw the lines and place the balls then you can't really see the shot line. You can only estimate it. Sometimes accurately and sometimes not.

Starting with cte line which is clear to see you can then sweep in to the shot line. A line that is given to to based on the cte/Pro One visual you chose to use, which is determined by the direction you want the cue ball to go in.

If you always knew the shot line then you could always just lay your cue on it. But the eyes play tricks on you when you try to estimate the shot line. Thus you end up too thick, or to thin often when you think it is right.

The reason I like CTE/Pro One is because it removes all the illusions from the shot.

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