My Last SBE...new synonym for "accommodating"...forfeit

TeeA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I knew Saturday (3/15) was gonna be a tough day with some difficult decisions to make. But I had a plan. Incredibly, this year's debacle topped last year.

Let me briefly describe what happened last year. I was in the final 16 in the Seniors and Super Seniors. Both next rounds were scheduled at the same time. Given the choice, I had to forfeit one opportunity to move into the final 8. Yeah, the website has a disclaimer but that doesn’t ease the pain of paying and not playing to get deeper into the money. After all, while I have a passion for the game and competition, it’s nice to recoup some of those significant expenses to be able to support a tournament somewhere else. After the Wednesday Warm up, Seniors, Super Seniors, Second Chance and TAP entrance fees; hotel, gas, food/drink, show purchases, etc., one easily can approach several hundred dollars. Of course, the Open overlaps all of these.

The Expo and TAP advertise together as if it’s one big Kumbayah. Fact is one will have nothing to do with the other in terms of conflict support. In fact the SBE, unlike TAP, will not even resolve conflict within it’s own tournaments when it’s not the player’s fault. It seems like they (SBE) just want you to fork over a ton of entrance fees and when you run into your first conflict (and you will because the overlap is a fact) pick a forfeit option and move on. Some will say only play in one event. Well, the overall expenses remain the same and it’s a long way to go for just one event considering single elimination and short races.

This year’s debacle and the plan: On Saturday morning I had an 11:00am 1st round Super Senior, 1:00pm Super Senior (if victorious in first round), 3:00pm Senior MONEY ROUND, 6:00pm TAP singles (in final 8 and undefeated to this point). My priorities were to play the 3:00pm money round and the 6:00pm TAP singles(which would probably be running late as usual). I played and won my 11:00, turned in my score sheet and when to watch the table match my 1:00pm would be coming from. Because of a women’s match on their table, they were just starting game three of first set (and both played like molasses on a cold winter day). I went to the tournament desk and brought the delay to their attention. They know me by name over the years, but I won’t mention their’s here. They were aware of the delay and the fact that my 3:00pm Senior MONEY ROUND probably would be two or more hours late. They verbally assured my that I would be accommodated, to go to my assigned 1:00pm table and wait for my opponent. I waited two hours plus and finally started my 1:00pm SS match after 3:00pm. It went three sets and I won. Took the score sheet to the desk and you guessed it...I was informed I forfeited my 3:00pm Senior MONEY Round because I was not at my assigned table at the prescribed time.

The rest was pretty ugly while trying to control myself and get my head (which was about to explod) around how this could happen. Both officials I spoke with earlier said they couldn’t stop it. I was in that desk area often and saw and heard players paged to come to the desk immediately for different issues. They knew on what table I was playing, or could have paged me and given me an option. I asked them what do you think I would have done? Play a “meaningless” second round SS event or MONEY Round S event? Despite an attempt the “super director” female official to cite the website disclaimer regarding conflicts, no one could make me understand how this could have happened. That disclaimer did not apply here. When it does, the player is given the choice to make.

I spoke with Allen, accurately explained what had happened, said he would resolve it and didn’t. I felt bad having to throw his officials under the bus. He said something about "playing the match" and "refund." I always have had way more respect for Allen than he gave me with this token blow-off non-resolution. He listened, questioned, walked me to the desk, started to inquire with the officials as to what happened, and the next thing I know he talking to two guys next to me about a different matter and I wasn’t an issue any longer.

I asked for an entry refund for both events and was told by “super director” I couldn’t get that because I forfeited and was still in the SS event. I told her keep the money. How do you expect me to play with composure in the SS after this. Oh, yeah, I played my (late) TAP match and lost. My opponent played great, but my head just wasn’t ready for a match at that point. Stress aside, proud that I played my way back to losing a hill-hill match to get in the finals.

Bottom line, SBE offer all these events but make no attempt to resolve any conflicts, your fault or not. As important, how can you have officials doing the job when their word is meaningless. I've conducted a lot of business in my life on the basis of my word. I’m not a spring chicken with 30 or 40 more attempts at playing here. But this is it for me. I play to enjoy the game, not get stressed out over things out of my control.
 

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wow that sucks. Sorry you had to go through this. I don't understand why they are willing to take your money but not willing to at least try to work around the conflicts. I understand that would make running a tournament of this size more difficult, but if it's too difficult to do than they shouldn't take your money.

At least try to work around the conflicts or don't allow for them.
 

uwate

daydreaming about pool
Silver Member
You must be a tremendous player with the results you speak of this year and last. I would like to have seen you play. I was there for TAP 9ball but I was numbered out so I never got a chance to screw together for TAP.

I know your upset about what happened but try to look on the bright side. You still made some money and there will always be next year. You walking away from the sbe on a principal issue only benefits the players who DONT have to play you next year.

fwiw my buddy Raymond Linares entered into the 10b, the open and the pro am. He promptly had a conflict and was directed to play the 10b and his open match at 3pm on thurs. It wasn't even 6 hrs into the event and he had to forfeit the open. When we were in Miami I warned him this would happen. He said oh no it says they will make "accommodations" for the players on the website, and I told him no no what they mean by accommodating you, is that you will get to choose which match to forfeit instead of them just doing it for you. You were not the only one who got the forfeit shaft, but yours sounds like it was particularly stinging because it was a money match.
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Tom,

Understand your frustration. One of my wishes for the SBE has always been for every player to be treated equally. Three years ago, I forfeited my Seniors match. The money match in the Open was scheduled at the same time as my FIRST Seniors match. Which would you play? Ceci tried to accommodate me to the best of her ability. Seems my opponent knew of me and did not wish to chance playing our match. At least she tried. My only smile from that came as he lost his second match badly! Perhaps he was right :thumbup: !

In 2012, I was scheduled to play both the Open and Super Seniors at the same time late Saturday. My SS opponent's son stopped by and asked if I would consider delaying our match till he completed his TAP singles event. Didn't have to think too hard on that one. Won both matches and threw the guy 20% of the SS match to cover his entry fee. He deserved it!

Lyn
 
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Maniac

2manyQ's
Silver Member
This is the second thread I've seen today about crappy scenarios at the SBE...and both of them were started by senior members/players.

What the hell is going on in the pool world when even the old tried-and-true pool tournaments are dropping the ball???

It would piss me off greatly if I was looked in the eye and told something only to have the opposite happen...and it costing me a chance at a payday.

This kind of stuff is just happening far too often anymore...that, or it's been going on forever and without the internet, just didn't hear of it.

There certainly seems to be a disproportionate amount of dishonesty associated with the world of pool. Air barrels...cue deals gone bad...cue makers taking money and never delivering cues...theft of cues in pool halls...hiding one's speed to get a lock game...tournaments paying out less than advertised...etc.

WTF???

Maniac
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
This is the second thread I've seen today about crappy scenarios at the SBE...and both of them were started by senior members/players.

What the hell is going on in the pool world when even the old tried-and-true pool tournaments are dropping the ball???

It would piss me off greatly if I was looked in the eye and told something only to have the opposite happen...and it costing me a chance at a payday.

This kind of stuff is just happening far too often anymore...that, or it's been going on forever and without the internet, just didn't hear of it.

There certainly seems to be a disproportionate amount of dishonesty associated with the world of pool. Air barrels...cue deals gone bad...cue makers taking money and never delivering cues...theft of cues in pool halls...hiding one's speed to get a lock game...tournaments paying out less than advertised...etc.

WTF???

Maniac

Maniac,

The one redeeming factor in all of this is Allen Hopkins and his crew put on another great event. Nine ball, eight ball, ten ball, one pocket, three cushion and some of the world's best pool equipment manufacturers and craftsman under one roof for four days. If it wasn't for all those factors, it just a OK event :eek: !

As a senior member of our society, it seems I've become used to complaining about everything. Guess it's just old age :cool: !

Lyn
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's happened to me with the open and the seniors ,, I knew it going in but figured I would still enter both ,, then I had my third round open at the same time as my opening senior match CC who I know well said they would switch it but the other player had the right to deny it , which he did so I had to forfeit it ,, I was so pissed but that's the way it goes


1
 

ga9ball

South West Buyer!
Silver Member
Sbe

Hey Tom, sorry you got the business as well as l did! You would think that all the years you have supported pool, something more could have been done to accommodate the situation.
We all know playing multiple events causes a conflict, l have played in the Amateur & Seniors in the same event and came to a crossing where I chose the Open.
The problem that you had was you were verbally told it would not be an issue!

As Lynn has pointed out, Allen has supported Pool more than most, and SBE is a great event, been going for years!
Hopefully something can resolve these issues.
 

trob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've said for years I don't go for the shitty single elimination its only amateur players (yea right) tournament. I go for the show around it! That is never a disappointment. I get treated well at the desk because the people running our long time friends but I agree ...the staff treats people like shit the entire weekend even when people being polite to them. I know its a long weekend for them but I don't give a shit... They get paid for it and they do it year in and year out. If you don't like doing it ...DON'T DO IT! If you can't manage to be polite to people..THIS ISN'T THE JOB FOR YOU! Try to deal with Jamie dollinger when at the desk... he's very knowledgeable and always fair.

btw I don't think I'm off base speaking about the tournament format. Every time he try to put together a tournament with no show around it he gets a shit turn out lol

All the a side I'm thankful I'm this close to the closest thing to pool heaven on earth we may ever find!
 

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
:speechless:


I think you are being really greedy trying to take advantage of all those amateur divisions.

Time to move up to the Pro division.


I really don't know why you feel the way you do. Of course if enter all those events and keep winning they will overlap.

Stop winning so much.:shocked:
 

TeeA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why didn't I think of that? Pay, play and lose...never a conflict. Thanks (lol)
 

TeeA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hard to respond to this without visualizing a bus approaching. Let me just say, I thought so too (JD & fairness).
 

TeeA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like he was at least given the choice...that I got last year, didn't like it but made it and moved on. But not this year...just sayin'.
 

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I knew Saturday (3/15) was gonna be a tough day with some difficult decisions to make. But I had a plan. Incredibly, this year's debacle topped last year.

Let me briefly describe what happened last year. I was in the final 16 in the Seniors and Super Seniors. Both next rounds were scheduled at the same time. Given the choice, I had to forfeit one opportunity to move into the final 8. Yeah, the website has a disclaimer but that doesn’t ease the pain of paying and not playing to get deeper into the money. After all, while I have a passion for the game and competition, it’s nice to recoup some of those significant expenses to be able to support a tournament somewhere else. After the Wednesday Warm up, Seniors, Super Seniors, Second Chance and TAP entrance fees; hotel, gas, food/drink, show purchases, etc., one easily can approach several hundred dollars. Of course, the Open overlaps all of these.

The Expo and TAP advertise together as if it’s one big Kumbayah. Fact is one will have nothing to do with the other in terms of conflict support. In fact the SBE, unlike TAP, will not even resolve conflict within it’s own tournaments when it’s not the player’s fault. It seems like they (SBE) just want you to fork over a ton of entrance fees and when you run into your first conflict (and you will because the overlap is a fact) pick a forfeit option and move on. Some will say only play in one event. Well, the overall expenses remain the same and it’s a long way to go for just one event considering single elimination and short races.

This year’s debacle and the plan: On Saturday morning I had an 11:00am 1st round Super Senior, 1:00pm Super Senior (if victorious in first round), 3:00pm Senior MONEY ROUND, 6:00pm TAP singles (in final 8 and undefeated to this point). My priorities were to play the 3:00pm money round and the 6:00pm TAP singles(which would probably be running late as usual). I played and won my 11:00, turned in my score sheet and when to watch the table match my 1:00pm would be coming from. Because of a women’s match on their table, they were just starting game three of first set (and both played like molasses on a cold winter day). I went to the tournament desk and brought the delay to their attention. They know me by name over the years, but I won’t mention their’s here. They were aware of the delay and the fact that my 3:00pm Senior MONEY ROUND probably would be two or more hours late. They verbally assured my that I would be accommodated, to go to my assigned 1:00pm table and wait for my opponent. I waited two hours plus and finally started my 1:00pm SS match after 3:00pm. It went three sets and I won. Took the score sheet to the desk and you guessed it...I was informed I forfeited my 3:00pm Senior MONEY Round because I was not at my assigned table at the prescribed time.

The rest was pretty ugly while trying to control myself and get my head (which was about to explod) around how this could happen. Both officials I spoke with earlier said they couldn’t stop it. I was in that desk area often and saw and heard players paged to come to the desk immediately for different issues. They knew on what table I was playing, or could have paged me and given me an option. I asked them what do you think I would have done? Play a “meaningless” second round SS event or MONEY Round S event? Despite an attempt the “super director” female official to cite the website disclaimer regarding conflicts, no one could make me understand how this could have happened. That disclaimer did not apply here. When it does, the player is given the choice to make.

I spoke with Allen, accurately explained what had happened, said he would resolve it and didn’t. I felt bad having to throw his officials under the bus. He said something about "playing the match" and "refund." I always have had way more respect for Allen than he gave me with this token blow-off non-resolution. He listened, questioned, walked me to the desk, started to inquire with the officials as to what happened, and the next thing I know he talking to two guys next to me about a different matter and I wasn’t an issue any longer.

I asked for an entry refund for both events and was told by “super director” I couldn’t get that because I forfeited and was still in the SS event. I told her keep the money. How do you expect me to play with composure in the SS after this. Oh, yeah, I played my (late) TAP match and lost. My opponent played great, but my head just wasn’t ready for a match at that point. Stress aside, proud that I played my way back to losing a hill-hill match to get in the finals.

Bottom line, SBE offer all these events but make no attempt to resolve any conflicts, your fault or not. As important, how can you have officials doing the job when their word is meaningless. I've conducted a lot of business in my life on the basis of my word. I’m not a spring chicken with 30 or 40 more attempts at playing here. But this is it for me. I play to enjoy the game, not get stressed out over things out of my control.

I guess I don't understand why you entered two events if you knew there could be conflict.

Yes, Allen and the SBE should try to work with those where they can, but once again, why enter two events if there could conflict in timing?

Maybe I don't understand.

ken
 

poolguy4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I guess I don't understand why you entered two events if you knew there could be conflict.

Yes, Allen and the SBE should try to work with those where they can, but once again, why enter two events if there could conflict in timing?

Maybe I don't understand.

ken

:smile:

I believe he was in three events including TAP League.:thumbup:
 

voiceofreason

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You must be a tremendous player with the results you speak of this year and last. I would like to have seen you play. I was there for TAP 9ball but I was numbered out so I never got a chance to screw together for TAP.

I know your upset about what happened but try to look on the bright side. You still made some money and there will always be next year. You walking away from the sbe on a principal issue only benefits the players who DONT have to play you next year.

fwiw my buddy Raymond Linares entered into the 10b, the open and the pro am. He promptly had a conflict and was directed to play the 10b and his open match at 3pm on thurs. It wasn't even 6 hrs into the event and he had to forfeit the open. When we were in Miami I warned him this would happen. He said oh no it says they will make "accommodations" for the players on the website, and I told him no no what they mean by accommodating you, is that you will get to choose which match to forfeit instead of them just doing it for you. You were not the only one who got the forfeit shaft, but yours sounds like it was particularly stinging because it was a money match.

It sounds like a badly run tournament to schedule two different events at the same time.
 

TeeA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Multiple events that overlap create conflicts. That's a given. The issue here was that (1) I was clearly told by SBE Officials that there would not be a conflict because the women previously on the table created the significant delay; and (2) I could have handled a conflict by being offered a choice...that's the rub. I wasn't offered a choice to resolve a (non) conflict. Play in a money round or play a second round match of new tournament?....a no brainer! Just offer me the option. Don't tell me I have no conflict, then forfeit me from the money round while playing a second round of a new tournament.
 
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