Method for using BHE with LD tech...

Jaden

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
So I figured out a method for using BHE with LD tech without having to use a longer more uncomfortable bridge and I thought I would go ahead and share it with AZland...

First, you have to find the shafts pivot point. A search should help those who aren't aware of how to do that, or you can go to Dr. Dave's site, his site shows how to find it.

Mark that point on the cue. You can put a dot on the shaft with a sharpie or whatever. This also helps to improve consistency because you will line up with the same orientation on the shaft with each shot.

Once you have the pivot point marked, you step into the shot bridging at the pivot point and get down on the shot, you pivot with that bridge for the amount and type of english you want, remembering to lower or raise your bridge for follow and draw to minimize swerve.

Once you have that aimline, holding the cue on that line and focusing on keeping the cue on that line and the point on the cueball you are going to make contact with, you slide your bridge forward to where it's comfortable and then lock it in place.

Once there, you are aligned with the shot based on the point on the CB that you wanted to hit, so you then stroke straight through that portion of the CB and you should be in line for the vast majority of shots.

Softer shots won't work as well due to increased swerve and CIT, but it's a good starting point and allows you to not have to rely as much on feel for side spin adjustment.

Jaden
 
Wow...

123 views and no responses????

Anyone have any thoughts, attempts, etc????

Jaden
 
I completely agree.

This is what I have been doing for about two years. I think I posted a similar post. Don't worry. My post wasn't the first, and yours won't be the last on this method.

It was while using this method that I realized LD cues are over-hyped:

If I can make this adjustment with an LD cue, I can find the pivot point and make the adjustment on any cue. Then it occurred to me that BHE on a non-LD cue would need less slide adjustment of the bridge hand, because LD cues tend to have longer pivot points.

The key is taking the time to find the pivot point. Most players I have spoken to do not have any idea what the natural pivot point is. They look at me like I am nuts, but I think it is one of the most powerful concepts in pool.

Cheers and good shooting.
 
Last edited:
Jaden said:
123 views and no responses????

Anyone have any thoughts, attempts, etc????

Jaden
Click to expand...

I'm probably missing something, but isn't the point of an LDS that you don't need to use BHE to adjust for deflection? So your target audience, people who have an LDS and use BHE, might be pretty small.

That said, isn't your method basically how BHE works with any shaft? It's just that the pivot point is different (presumably closer to the tip) for an LDS.

Cory
 
actually as was pointed out in the previous post to yours...

Cory in DC said:
I'm probably missing something, but isn't the point of an LDS that you don't need to use BHE to adjust for deflection? So your target audience, people who have an LDS and use BHE, might be pretty small.

That said, isn't your method basically how BHE works with any shaft? It's just that the pivot point is different (presumably closer to the tip) for an LDS.

Cory
Click to expand...

At first glance, understanding this would appear to counter the claimed benefit of LD tech and considering that I am in the business of developing LD tech, it would seem counter productive that I would point it out.

Before I read your post, I was going to reply to his post as well, but after seeing your post I decided that it would be best to respond to both at the same time.

Even LD tech producers will acknowledge that reduced deflection is not eliminated deflection.

In many cases, the LD tech does appear to eliminate ANY need to adjust but that isn't the truth.

because the pivot point is farther back with LD tech, it does minimize the changes because closer to where a person typically bridges, the angle differential is minimal, or minimized rather. This allows people to adjust their aim less, but it also means something else and this something else addresses the true benefit of LD tech.

There is less disparity between cueball paths on shots using side spin versus shots NOT using side spin when utilizing LD tech compared to not using LD tech.

Yes, non LD tech using BHE can be very accurate, but because you have greater shifts in ball paths there will be more variance, which means greater likelihood for error.

So the main benefit of LD tech is that there is less variance from original aimline when using spin, not that it's necessarily EASIER to AIM when using side spin and LD tech.

This reduced variance means greater consistency; however, BHE is still the most accurate way of knowing the correct aimline for side spin shots.

This means that you can bridge much closer to the shot using this method, even CLOSER than the typical 10-12" which makes it more likely that you will hit the spot on the CB that you are intending.

Jaden
 
Yeah...

Shaft said:
I completely agree.

This is what I have been doing for about two years. I think I posted a similar post. Don't worry. My post wasn't the first, and yours won't be the last on this method.

It was while using this method that I realized LD cues are over-hyped:

If I can make this adjustment with an LD cue, I can find the pivot point and make the adjustment on any cue. Then it occurred to me that BHE on a non-LD cue would need less slide adjustment of the bridge hand, because LD cues tend to have longer pivot points.

The key is taking the time to find the pivot point. Most players I have spoken to do not have any idea what the natural pivot point is. They look at me like I am nuts, but I think it is one of the most powerful concepts in pool.

Cheers and good shooting.
Click to expand...

What made me think to write this post was that I had gone back and was watching a video I had made a couple of years ago on BHE and adjusting your bridge after pivoting when you can't bridge at the pivot point for whatever reason.

I then realized that it can be used to utilize the ideal bridge length regardless of the cues pivot point.

Many people and instructors of the past may have chosen cues or suggested bridge lengths based on how BHE works, but this knowledge could improve consistency if it is used properly.

Jaden
 
What do you do, when the pivot point of the cue, is at 14 to 16 inches from the tip?
 
conetip said:
What do you do, when the pivot point of the cue, is at 14 to 16 inches from the tip?
Click to expand...

What do you do, when the player doesn't use the pivot point of the cue?

My bridge length varies from shot to shot.
 
I described it in the first post.

conetip said:
What do you do, when the pivot point of the cue, is at 14 to 16 inches from the tip?
Click to expand...

Once you have the pivot point marked, you pivot from that point on the cue and then keeping the cue on that new line, you slide your bridge to whatever point on the cue you want to bridge from.

As long as you maintain that cue position and strike that part of the CB, you should be good.

Jaden

A little later, I'll see what I can do about setting up a diagram illustrating it so it's easier to understand. I'm a little out of it since my best friend passed away yesterday after collapsing on a hiking trip.
 
Easy to understand your explanation, thank you. With this method, you've effectively changed the bridge placement versus if you came down for the shot with your normal bridge length. With a Z2 or ob 2, it ends up almost being parallel English.

I've never heard anyone explain the scientific reasons for why the pivot point varies. I wonder if it is because the swerve is greater than the deflection with an LD Shaft?

Jaden, how many tips of English are you applying? Does this method work the same for one, two or three tips of English? Does it work for varying distances between the cb and ob?
 
yes...

nobcitypool said:
Easy to understand your explanation, thank you. With this method, you've effectively changed the bridge placement versus if you came down for the shot with your normal bridge length. With a Z2 or ob 2, it ends up almost being parallel English.

I've never heard anyone explain the scientific reasons for why the pivot point varies. I wonder if it is because the swerve is greater than the deflection with an LD Shaft?

Jaden, how many tips of English are you applying? Does this method work the same for one, two or three tips of English? Does it work for varying distances between the cb and ob?
Click to expand...

It works for most distances and for most amounts of spin. The biggest changes are when you hit softer and of course the longer the distance, the more speed has an effect.

Jaden
 
nobcitypool said:
I've never heard anyone explain the scientific reasons for why the pivot point varies.
Click to expand...
The natural pivot point of a cue is directly related to how much squirt (AKA "cue ball deflection") it creates. A simple procedure that can be used to find your cue's natural pivot point is described and demonstrated here:

cue natural pivot point

For a scientific explanation of the causes of squirt (and why it varies with the type of cue), see:

What causes squirt?

For those who want more information about BHE and FHE, and if you want to know when each is appropriate, see:

back-hand (BHE) and front-hand english (FHE)


nobcitypool said:
Does this method work the same for one, two or three tips of English?
Click to expand...

Yes. That's the beauty of BHE. The squirt angle is directly related to the amount of cue pivot. (For those interested in the physics and math behind this, see: TP B.1 - Squirt angle, pivot length, and tip size.)


nobcitypool said:
Does it work for varying distances between the cb and ob?
Click to expand...
BHE works better for short and/or high-speed shots. FHE works better for long and slower shots. For all shots in between, you can use a combination of BHE and FHE or vary the pivot length (or just use intuition built up by many years of successful practice and experience). For more information, see:

aim compensation for squirt, swerve, and throw

Enjoy,
Dave
 
Jaden said:
So I figured out a method for using BHE with LD tech without having to use a longer more uncomfortable bridge and I thought I would go ahead and share it with AZland...

First, you have to find the shafts pivot point. A search should help those who aren't aware of how to do that, or you can go to Dr. Dave's site, his site shows how to find it.

Mark that point on the cue. You can put a dot on the shaft with a sharpie or whatever. This also helps to improve consistency because you will line up with the same orientation on the shaft with each shot.

Once you have the pivot point marked, you step into the shot bridging at the pivot point and get down on the shot, you pivot with that bridge for the amount and type of english you want, remembering to lower or raise your bridge for follow and draw to minimize swerve.

Once you have that aimline, holding the cue on that line and focusing on keeping the cue on that line and the point on the cueball you are going to make contact with, you slide your bridge forward to where it's comfortable and then lock it in place.

Once there, you are aligned with the shot based on the point on the CB that you wanted to hit, so you then stroke straight through that portion of the CB and you should be in line for the vast majority of shots.

Softer shots won't work as well due to increased swerve and CIT, but it's a good starting point and allows you to not have to rely as much on feel for side spin adjustment.

Jaden
Click to expand...


I just tried it and couldn't get it to work. When I shot after moving up, it over recovers from the squirt.
 
Are you using a loose grip???

Wileydog said:
I just tried it and couldn't get it to work. When I shot after moving up, it over recovers from the squirt.
Click to expand...

Are you trying to force the cue through the ball or letting the weight of the cue do the work?

This method has a tendency to look wrong at first and since you don't trust it, you might try to subconsciously correct.

So, first make sure you have the correct pivot point for your cue. If BHE works at the point you think is the correct pivot point, then you know that it's right.

Then the method that works best for me once you have that established, is to pivot for the english and then focus on the CB, keeping the cue in your peripheral vision to make sure it stays on that line while you shift your bridge.

Then lock in on that new position and look at the OB as you stroke straight through the CB...

Try to let the weight of the cue do the work, this helps to prevent you from trying to correct subconsciously.

Jaden
 
Last edited:
Jaden said:
Are you trying to force the cue through the ball or letting the weight of the cue do the work?

This method has a tendency to look wrong at first and since you don't trust it, you might try to subconsciously correct.

So, first make sure you have the correct pivot point for your cue. If BHE works at the point you think is the correct pivot point, then you know that it's right.

Then the method that works best for me once you have that established is to pivot for the english and then focus on the CB, keeping the cue in your peripheral vision to make sure it stays on that line while you shift your bridge.

Then lock in on that new position and look at the OB as you stroke straight through the CB...

Try to let the weight of the cue do the work, this helps to prevent you from trying to correct subconsciously.

Jaden
Click to expand...

I'll try a few times later when I get a chance. I like the long pivot point on my LD, but, if your idea works, it might help those times when a long stroke can't be used.
 
Has anyone actually consciously chosen BHE vs. FHE,
or used some measuring trick for their pivot point,
and seen their game go up?

Does anyone know of a professional who did this?

I'm generally a fan of being precise and sweating the small stuff,
but this has always struck me as overthinking a process
that is best handled by the lizard brain.

A lot of the stuff we think we are doing consciously (choosing an aim point,
using a bank system, adjusting for throw) is actually being
done subconsciously and being automatically corrected during warmup strokes
or even midswing on your final stroke.
 
Yes, this has been the question...

CreeDo said:
Has anyone actually consciously chosen BHE vs. FHE,
or used some measuring trick for their pivot point,
and seen their game go up?

Does anyone know of a professional who did this?

I'm generally a fan of being precise and sweating the small stuff,
but this has always struck me as overthinking a process
that is best handled by the lizard brain.

A lot of the stuff we think we are doing consciously (choosing an aim point,
using a bank system, adjusting for throw) is actually being
done subconsciously and being automatically corrected during warmup strokes
or even midswing on your final stroke.
Click to expand...

This is the question that always comes up, aren't you adjusting your aim subconsciously.

I addressed this with a live stream that I did a while back where I had a caller call in I would aim center ball and get down on the shot and without changing my bridge position would have the caller tell me what english he wanted me to put on the ball.

That pretty much dispels the thought that we are subconsciously adjusting aim with the intention of specific english on the shot.

Jaden
 
CreeDo said:
Has anyone actually consciously chosen BHE vs. FHE,
or used some measuring trick for their pivot point,
and seen their game go up?

Does anyone know of a professional who did this?

I'm generally a fan of being precise and sweating the small stuff,
but this has always struck me as overthinking a process
that is best handled by the lizard brain.

A lot of the stuff we think we are doing consciously (choosing an aim point,
using a bank system, adjusting for throw) is actually being
done subconsciously and being automatically corrected during warmup strokes
or even midswing on your final stroke.
Click to expand...
Some people do consciously use BHE, but there are a lot of people that take advantage of it without knowing it because their natural bridge length falls on, or very near, the pivot point of their cue. Personally, I play with an LD shaft (WD700), and prefer to consciously adjust my aim to compensate for squirt before I get into my stance instead of pivoting when I'm already down on the ball. That way, I can come down on the ball with everything (feet, hips, elbow, wrist, cue) in line with my shot and use the same stroke every time, just varying the speed.
 
Busty does this...

Matt said:
Some people do consciously use BHE, but there are a lot of people that take advantage of it without knowing it because their natural bridge length falls on, or very near, the pivot point of their cue. Personally, I play with an LD shaft (WD700), and prefer to consciously adjust my aim to compensate for squirt before I get into my stance instead of pivoting when I'm already down on the ball. That way, I can come down on the ball with everything (feet, hips, elbow, wrist, cue) in line with my shot and use the same stroke every time, just varying the speed.
Click to expand...

You can tell it's what busty's doing because his bridge is almost ALWAYS in line with a center ball hit.

I mean consciously... He knows what he's doing.

I'm not sure if Efren consciously chooses his bridge length as when he taught me BHE english, he didn't mention anything about bridge length ( I found that out later with my conversations with Colin Colenso), but he might...

Jaden
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top