BCA League Payouts (and operations) - Is this normal???

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shotmaker45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Warning: Long post ahead.

I was talking with a friend who plays in the local BCA league in Stockton, California (www.sjvpool.com).

He expressed to me how unhappy many of the players were with the way that particular league was being run.

There were (are) no league guidelines posted or available anywhere. Changes to the way the league operated were made at the sole discretion of the league operator during the season with little notice or explanation. Questions were ignored/dismissed or met with inconsistent explanations.

I, myself, was under the impression that local leagues like the BCA were supposed to have some sort of "by-laws" posted and available to the players. :confused:

Approximate payouts for each "session" were never posted. In fact, no players in the league had any remote idea of what was to be paid out to each team (1st place, 2nd place, total prize fund, etc) until the moment the league operator actually distributed any prize money for the "session". :(

The one league member who did raise questions regarding payouts (along with the lack of general information) was immediately kicked out of the league by the league operator. :eek:

As far as how much money was collected and paid out, here are the numbers for the previous 12-week "session", which ran from January 16, 2014 to April 3, 2014...

For those of you who like math:
18 teams
5 players per team
$6 per player, per week
12 week session

18 * 5 * 6 * 12 = $6480
Click to expand...

Money paid out:
1st Place Team - $302
2nd Place Team - $220
3rd Place Team - $113
4th Place Team - $60
5th Place Team - $25
6th Place Team - $15
7th Place Team - $10
8th Place Team - $5

Total = $750
Click to expand...

I have also included an infographic (far below) for readability.

Some who wish to play devil's advocate will say that the remaining $5730 withheld (kept?) by the league operator for this "session" will go toward league expenses and/or trips to Las Vegas.

Once again, there has been no financial information available, league guidelines, bylaws, etc. that would explain how/where the money collected will actually be spent.

From what my friend has told me, this whole mess has been going on for (at least) the past three 12-week sessions, with the league operator keeping a disproportionately large percentage of the money collected. :eek:

Now their league is in their last 7-week (???) session prior to the BCA Las Vegas Nationals.

So far several teams have not expressed interest in returning for the next year/season. :(

I was under the impression (perhaps incorrectly) that any local BCA league was supposed to follow a set a guidelines, rules, or even perhaps a code of ethics, to ensure that the players are given a fair and positive experience that is consistent with the goals and image of the parent BCA organization.

Ultimately, my question is this how a local BCA league normally operates? :confused:


TL;DR / Summary: Local BCA league operator keeps 88% of all money collected. No information on payouts (or league bylaws) is posted anywhere or available for review. Players who question any of this will be kicked out of the league. League players unhappy. :(
 

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Hah, not only does this seem ridiculous, but I really don't understand the $5 and $10 payouts. What the heck is the point of that? Is the 8th place team going to split a beer amongst the team?
 
That's terrible and he should be barred from running any leagues.

You should put his name out there because he is completely robbing everyone. His name would be good so know one ever enters his league if they move there, or if the guy pops up in another area.
 
Are those payouts per player per team or do they split the payouts that you posted between 6 players?
 
run my friend...as fast as you can

any LO who is unwilling to post by-laws, payouts, etc. is a crook and shouldn't be trusted.

get the captains together and pick a 'treasurer' to hold the weekly dues until it's time to book flights, pay entry fees, etc.
 
Not even individual payouts? One league Ive played was similar, but almost all the rest was individual.
 
Report him/her to BCA national office. If they think there are any wrong doings, they will investigate. It is in the interest of BCA to do so. In a local APA area, a league operator was expelled for withholding vegas money (among other things). And it only took one person to get it started. If you feel you are being screwed, report it.
 
i am not sure bcapl will or will not do any thing about it. i don't know bcapl 's feelings on how the individual lo's run their financially but as far as what rules each league plays by mr. griffin stated on this forum '' each lo can run their league any way they see fit''. again per mr . griffin's statement as to how each individual league is ran.

we had sorta the same situation here years ago. at the end of the year the lo did not have the money ...or never used the money alloted to send a team to the nationals. every one quit and the league folded. that was about 8 years ago. bcapl is a 4 letter word around here since then.
 
5 players per team....18 teams....90 players total more or less....he makes 477.50 a week.

I wouldn't put up with the complainers either. In fact I would not do the job for less than a thousand a week.
 
lorider said:
i am not sure bcapl will or will not do any thing about it. i don't know bcapl 's feelings on how the individual lo's run their financially but as far as what rules each league plays by mr. griffin stated on this forum '' each lo can run their league any way they see fit''. again per mr . griffin's statement as to how each individual league is ran.
Click to expand...

My understanding is they also have a pretty hands off approach about how much money the league operator can keep, although I am sure that someone from CSI (the BCAPL parent company) will be posting soon that they will look into it. I don't recall if they have an official rule for what amount or percentage of money a LO can keep, but if they do it is pretty generous for the LO. They tend to be pretty liberal with the amount of leeway they allow the LO to have in most matters from what I have seen. What is typical though is for LO's to keep anywhere from $1 to $2 per person per week depending on the League.

As for those payouts, that is utterly ridiculous. Both in the percentage that was paid out, and also in the payout amounts for some of those places. If anyone ever handed me $5 as the payout for a team, for a whole multi-week session of play, I know I wouldn't be real happy about that at all. IMO you shouldn't even bother paying out anything less than $50 bare minimum to a team (and even that is really pushing it), just put that money into one of the other higher placing payouts instead. It would be better to place out of the money than to be insulted with five or ten dollars. Wow. This operator sounds clueless.
 
I am not a LO. If the league operator did get the full $5730 for minimum 12 weeks. Then they made $477.50 a week. Guess you have to ask yourself what's fair for them to make. Don't think they are getting rich but their time is worth something. What's fair? No idea. I would say that I think it fair that they post payouts at the beginning of the session based on the amount of teams.
 
Rockin' Robin said:
5 players per team....18 teams....90 players total more or less....he makes 477.50 a week.

I wouldn't put up with the complainers either. In fact I would not do the job for less than a thousand a week.
Click to expand...

Fair point. But on the flip side I don't see how it is kosher that the player's are only being being paid back less than 12% of what was collected and paid in either. According to the OP, that is the amount the LO paid out, less than 12%. That sure doesn't sound real appealing on the player's side for what they are earning either.
 
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Investigation

shotmaker 45:
The BCAPL is a sanctioning body for independent leagues and the League Operator is largely free to structure the league as they see fit. However, there are general ethical rules of conduct that must be followed or the league operator could face sanctions or banishment. We take this type of situation very seriously. I would like you to private message me your phone number so we can get more detail and open an investigation. Thanks for bringing this to my attention and please, don't ever hesitate to call our office at 702-719-7665. We are here to help.

Just to clarify another point made on this thread...the BCAPL office does not get a percentage of weekly fees.
 
L
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CSI - Ozzy said:
shotmaker 45:
The BCAPL is a sanctioning body for independent leagues and the League Operator is largely free to structure the league as they see fit. However, there are general ethical rules of conduct that must be followed or the league operator could face sanctions or banishment. We take this type of situation very seriously. I would like you to private message me your phone number so we can get more detail and open an investigation. Thanks for bringing this to my attention and please, don't ever hesitate to call our office at 702-719-7665. We are here to help.

Just to clarify another point made on this thread...the BCAPL office does not get a percentage of weekly fees.
Click to expand...

Mr griffins stated bcapl did not care how the leagues were ran as long as the fees were paid you state bcapl does not get a percentage. Well what fees was mr griffin refering to ?
 
lorider said:
L
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Mr griffins stated bcapl did not care how the leagues were ran as long as the fees were paid you state bcapl does not get a percentage. Well what fees was mr griffin refering to ?
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound like something Mark would say, nor would it make much sense for him to say it.

Can you quote this by chance?
 
I don't know if he said it but it's definitly how it run. They don't care what rules you play by or what weekly fee are paid or what's paid out. As long as you pay your bca entry fee and play by there rules in Vegas at nationals. The league sucks ... Quit is all I can tell you.
 
Wrong

lorider & trob:
I have no idea of your past experiences but I assure you that your assertions that the BCAPL national office doesn't care it 100% false. It is true that the national office does not mandate a set structure or payouts and the League Operators can structure the league as they see fit. However, the assertion that the national office doesn't care about unethical conduct is completely false. It sounds to me that you had a very bad experience with a local league and that has tainted your view of the entire national organization. As always, you are welcome to call me any time at 702-719-7665. Thanks.
 
PaulieB said:
Hah, not only does this seem ridiculous, but I really don't understand the $5 and $10 payouts. What the heck is the point of that? Is the 8th place team going to split a beer amongst the team?
Click to expand...

especially if the payouts within the team are prorated.
:eek:

i have a feeling Mark Griffin will be commenting soon....
 
To solve disputes with payouts, they should just pass out trophies for 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
Nobody is going to get rich on league winnings anyway. It's more about having a venue to play.
 
why put it on here

This place is becoming the place to come cry to Mommy about.

Very Simple. If the OP isn't the ACTUAL person involved, it is all hearsay, and you might want to look up LIBEL. Wait I will do it for you.

a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.
synonyms: defamation, defamation of character, character assassination, calumny, misrepresentation, scandalmongering;
aspersions, denigration, vilification, disparagement, derogation, insult, slander, malicious gossip;
lie, slur, smear, untruth, false report;
informalmudslinging, bad-mouthing
"she sued two newspapers for libel"

The person who has the problem should be first contact their LO. If satisfaction is not reached, or you still think there is a problem contact BCAPL.
 
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