Who makes the best one pocket players?

Ken_4fun

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All -

I have been giving this a little thought as I saw Scott Frost and Francisco Bustamante playing one pocket. Now you know Francisco took up one pocket late in his career. And I have heard the line, "One pocket is the accumulation of all pocket games" but I don't buy into it. Folks play several different styles, and being that I am not from Chicago, and for me to like a Chicago player is a little tough for me to admit, but aside from Efren, I like Chris Gentiles game.

But back to my topic for this thread. John Schmidt and Danny Harriman (both straight pool players in their hearts) both suggest straight pool players tend to make the best one pocket players.

I played pool in Kentucky with lots of bank pool players, and obviously they thought they had a big advantage in one pocket because the played so many bank shots in a normal game of one-pocket.

Then there is the 9/10 ball players. While I find most rotation players are rather looked down upon by one pocket players, it seems to me as of late, these guys have really taken over the one pocket game. These are the folks that for me are the toughest to gamble with playing one pocket. I move better than the majority of them, but given one makeable shot, they often run 7 -9 balls, making handicapping them nearly impossible.

Finally you have the guys like Scott Frost (who may be Ronnie Allen’s illegitimate son - okay I was just kidding) and players like Cliff Joyner or Chris Gentile, who are just a true old school one pocket players.

What are your thoughts?

Ken
 
bmsclayton

bmsclayton

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
champions

Ken_4fun said:
All -

I have been giving this a little thought as I saw Scott Frost and Francisco Bustamante playing one pocket. Now you know Francisco took up one pocket late in his career. And I have heard the line, "One pocket is the accumulation of all pocket games" but I don't buy into it. Folks play several different styles, and being that I am not from Chicago, and for me to like a Chicago player is a little tough for me to admit, but aside from Efren, I like Chris Gentiles game.

But back to my topic for this thread. John Schmidt and Danny Harriman (both straight pool players in their hearts) both suggest straight pool players tend to make the best one pocket players.

I played pool in Kentucky with lots of bank pool players, and obviously they thought they had a big advantage in one pocket because the played so many bank shots in a normal game of one-pocket.

Then there is the 9/10 ball players. While I find most rotation players are rather looked down upon by one pocket players, it seems to me as of late, these guys have really taken over the one pocket game. These are the folks that for me are the toughest to gamble with playing one pocket. I move better than the majority of them, but given one makeable shot, they often run 7 -9 balls, making handicapping them nearly impossible.

Finally you have the guys like Scott Frost (who may be Ronnie Allen’s illegitimate son - okay I was just kidding) and players like Cliff Joyner or Chris Gentile, who are just a true old school one pocket players.

What are your thoughts?

Ken
Click to expand...

I agree with you on a few things. I can't make balls but move ok and can compete with guys I get the 7 & b from even one hole. The first time I went to the Derby to watch one poc all I learned is I don't shoot like that and can't. Some people say there is only one correct shot in one hole. When you shoot like Shane you can shoot any shot you want as long as you execute. When you shoot like me you have to play a lot of two ways.

I think the different styles can all win on any given day with these champs. Very similar to MMA styles. The best are usually pretty well rounded.
 
S

smoooothstroke

JerLaw
Silver Member
Billiards players make great 1P guys.

I went from bartable 8 ball to 1 hole and I do OK.

If you are playing the run-out style 1 pocket then rotation players do pretty well but It seams to take them some time to learn the game.Also 9-ballers cannot hang with the most skillful 1-holers when it comes to escaping big traps and keeping an opponent in a trap,thus they wont get enough opportunities to run out.

I think with so much 1 pocket on the internet and being played in local rooms,it makes it easier for rotation players to learn how to win without having to move perfectly.
 
measureman

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The best one pocket players are as follows
They like to play endless safes
They like to agonize over every shot for 5 minutes or more :boring2:
They enjoy putting people to sleep :boring:
I hate one pocket.
 
The Renfro

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
learning the subtleties of one pocket really isn't as hard as everyone makes it out to be... Protect, protect, protect... execute.....

once you learn that mantra watching 1-pocket and calling the right shots becomes a whole lot easier and you will actually enjoy watching it unless they decide to play the varner wedge.....

If you want to actually get a crash course there is an Accu-Stats match from the all around where Billy Incardona and Throsten Hohmann are in the booth and Billy goes into teaching mode since Thorsten had never played much one pocket.... Thorsten actually ended up winning several games in his matches following and I think he may have stolen a match from Shane......

AS14-1P3* Darren Appleton def. Shane Van Boening 4-1 BI,TH 150

2.5 hours of listening to Billy and Toastie will definitely get you on the right track even if you haven't played the game before.....
 
NK_Sniper

NK_Sniper

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
measureman said:
The best one pocket players are as follows
They like to play endless safes
They like to agonize over every shot for 5 minutes or more :boring2:
They enjoy putting people to sleep :boring:
I hate one pocket.
Click to expand...

Corey Duel takes FOREVERRRRRR to make a single shot in 1P! :boring2: Spends about 2-3 minutes just inspecting the rack before breaking and still loses to Efren, and makes a ton of mistakes and bad shot choices. Efren and Gentile don't even inspect the rack, they're just confident enough to take and play whatever is given to them. BTW, Billy Incardona makes some serious fun off of Corey who was also commentating the finals between Efren and Gentile! :D See below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6A1QCJTdBU&list=PL49D851BAA3344CFA
 
watchez

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
I don't think you can make a clear cut definition -

Bugs and Gary Spaeth were tremendous bankers and great one pocket players. Tony Fargo was a tremendous banker but an average one pocket player.

Gabe, Chohan, Jeremy Jones certainly are not known as the straightest of shooters in pool but are all great one pocket players. They truly know the game.

SVB has made himself a great one pocket player on the strength of his shooting ability. Never going to make a truly 'wow' thought out one pocket shot but know how to win and go 8 and out.

Then you have guys like Varner, Incardona, Buddy Hall - that are simply all around great players.
 
Fast Lenny

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
My personal opinion is that one pockets of today are superior to those of the past. The reason being is you have top rotation and straight pool players with the best shot making ability learning the moves or enough moves to defend themselves and when they get the shot they run a ton of balls. This is why you see guys like Shane, Schmidt, Bustamante and many others playing the game at a high level who might not be a superior movers to say Jeremy Jones, Joyner, Frost but shoot super straight. The best one pocket players are the straight shooters with great cue ball control, not the best movers. It is easier to teach a shooter to move then a mover to shoot straighter.

The knowledge is out there unlike the old days where one pocket players knew the strategy and very few others did so they could trap a superior 9 ball player. If I play a 9 ball player who has never played one pocket but can spot me the 7 ball, most likely I will roast him in one pocket because of his lack of knowledge in the game and maybe even spot him 9/7. There is lots of instructional videos and matches for people to watch and learn, its no longer a hidden gamblers game. One pocket is more popular now and the play higher then it has ever been, the game will continue to grow because it is simply the best all around pool game there is. :thumbup:
 
terryhanna

terryhanna

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What makes 1 pocket such a great game is that the game has so many variables and styles that all can be very effective if used correctly. Years ago i saw Jack Cooney play he was such a great player some of the shots and moves he made were just amazing to me i have been hooked on the game ever since
 
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Ken_4fun

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Lenny

Fast Lenny said:
My personal opinion is that one pockets of today are superior to those of the past. The reason being is you have top rotation and straight pool players with the best shot making ability learning the moves or enough moves to defend themselives and when they get the shot they run a ton of balls. This is why you see guys like Shane, Schmidt, Bustamante and many others playing the game at a high level who might not be a superior movers to say Jeremy Jones, Joyner, Frost but shoot super straight. The best one pocket players are the straight shooters with great cue ball control, not the best movers. It is easier to teach a shooter to move then a mover to shoot straighter.

The knowledge is out there unlike the old days where one pocket players knew the strategy and very few others did so they could trap a superior 9 ball player. If I play a 9 ball player who has never played one pocket but can spot me the 7 ball, most likely I will roast him in one pocket because of his lack of knowledge in the game and maybe even spot him 9/7. There is lots of instructional videos and matches for people to watch and learn, its no longer a hidden gamblers game. One pocket is more popular now and the play higher then it has ever been, the game will continue to grow because it is simply the best all around pool game there is. :thumbup:
Click to expand...
I'd love to see any of the old players try to beat Efren in both of their primes. The second best I have only seen on video is Ronnie Allen, then the list goes down pretty quick, IMO.
Straight shooters can be shut down to nothing as shown by Efren vs. Jason miller finals at dcc several years ago.
 
Fast Lenny

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
Ken_4fun said:
I'd love to see any of the old players try to beat Efren in both of their primes. The second best I have only seen on video is Ronnie Allen, then the list goes down pretty quick, IMO.
Straight shooters can be shut down to nothing as shown by Efren vs. Jason miller finals at dcc several years ago.
Click to expand...

The old players would not be able to compete with the players today IMO. Like I have said before Ronnie Allen might have ran 8 and out on 5 inch pockets but Scott Frost runs 18 and out on 4 inch pockets. As for Jason Miller, Efren moves and shoots better, what can Jason Miller do better then Efren besides perhaps banking?
 
$TAKE HOR$E

$TAKE HOR$E

champagne - campaign
Silver Member
Ken_4fun said:
The second best I have only seen on video is Ronnie Allen, then the list goes down pretty quick, IMO.
Click to expand...

How much weight do you think Ronnie would have given Alex or Shane....;)

Edited to add Scott and Fransisco....or maybe JJ and Cliff
 
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Fast Lenny

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
$TAKE HOR$E said:
How much weight do you think Ronnie would have given Alex or Shane....;)
Click to expand...

I saw the video of Ronnie vs Danny and thought it was nothing special. They were playing on buckets and the play was nothing like what we see today. A guy gets a shot today and he will run 8 and out more times then not.
 
Ken_4fun

Ken_4fun

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fast Lenny said:
I saw the video of Ronnie vs Danny and thought it was nothing special. They were playing on buckets and the play was nothing like what we see today. A guy gets a shot today and he will run 8 and out more times then not.
Click to expand...

Agreed. But old school guys never gave them a shot. They played a lot tighter. When two shooters plAy each other today, it like what someone said about Keith mccready playing one pocket.....never seen a shot they didn't like (or go for)
 
wutang

wutang

THE DEADLY GAMESMAN
Silver Member
made mention of this a while back....

Totally agreed - 01-04-2012, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macguy View Post
[practicing moves and getting balls out is all good and nesessary but the truth is, all you are doing most of the game is trying to beat the other guy to a shot. The ability to run balls is what wins. It is what the new crop of great players have brought to the table. The old timers with their constant moving would not beat today's aggressive players, it is a whole new game now. A few like ronnie allen and jersey red were aggressive but many were very timid back then. You can't depend on a good player to make five mistakes for you to win. You are lucky if they make one.]


I have been arguing with a few cats for the past year about this:

The one pocket player versus the one pocket shooter.

As of late, the one pocket shooter has been more successful

than the one pocket player. It might be a slight 'changing of the guard'

time frame. Who knows. And just for a little reinforcement to my

statement, checkout the first and second place finishers @ dcc:

Two rotation killers: Shane and Earl.

Peace

WUTANG
 
macguy

macguy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ken_4fun said:
All -

I have been giving this a little thought as I saw Scott Frost and Francisco Bustamante playing one pocket. Now you know Francisco took up one pocket late in his career. And I have heard the line, "One pocket is the accumulation of all pocket games" but I don't buy into it. Folks play several different styles, and being that I am not from Chicago, and for me to like a Chicago player is a little tough for me to admit, but aside from Efren, I like Chris Gentiles game.

But back to my topic for this thread. John Schmidt and Danny Harriman (both straight pool players in their hearts) both suggest straight pool players tend to make the best one pocket players.

I played pool in Kentucky with lots of bank pool players, and obviously they thought they had a big advantage in one pocket because the played so many bank shots in a normal game of one-pocket.

Then there is the 9/10 ball players. While I find most rotation players are rather looked down upon by one pocket players, it seems to me as of late, these guys have really taken over the one pocket game. These are the folks that for me are the toughest to gamble with playing one pocket. I move better than the majority of them, but given one makeable shot, they often run 7 -9 balls, making handicapping them nearly impossible.

Finally you have the guys like Scott Frost (who may be Ronnie Allen’s illegitimate son - okay I was just kidding) and players like Cliff Joyner or Chris Gentile, who are just a true old school one pocket players.

What are your thoughts?

Ken
Click to expand...
A straight pool player with some banking skills. Although I do admire guys that move well, I prefer an aggressive player with run out skills. That is why DiLiberto played so well. When people listen to him do one pocket commentary some of his ideas sound kind of reckless. Not for him though.

For him it is risk and reward. He may take a small risk that will win the game for him because 8 and out was nothing to him no matter how the balls are lying. I used to watch him play guys like 12 to 4 or something and he runs 12 and out.

I think that aggression is one of the aspects that the new generation of players bring t the game. Guys bumping balls around for like an hour is a thing of the past.
 
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