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Efren Reyes vs. Ronnie Allen
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HitHrdNDraw
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Efren Reyes vs. Ronnie Allen - 08-05-2006, 01:48 AM

Efren vs. ronnie one pocket? who wouldnt pay to see that... Ronnie allen circa 1970's vs efren now... i think efren gives him at least 9-7/8-7 ... i don't think the old timers could fade the offensive force ... what used to be moves efren has turned into 8 and outs... We know what billy incardona thinks... what do you think?
  
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HitHrdNDraw
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08-05-2006, 01:54 AM

i changed my mind... I just watched efren dismantle larry nevel... efren gives him 10-7 and robs him... any side bets?
  
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08-05-2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HitHrdNDraw
i changed my mind... I just watched efren dismantle larry nevel... efren gives him 10-7 and robs him... any side bets?
Where did you watch that?? Remember we are talking what Ronnie WAS. It can't and won't happen.
  
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10-7? Not....
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hemicudas
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10-7? Not.... - 08-05-2006, 02:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by HitHrdNDraw
i changed my mind... I just watched efren dismantle larry nevel... efren gives him 10-7 and robs him... any side bets?
It is so easy to forget who invented “Offensive” one pocket, Ronnie Allen. Ronnie won many 9 ball tournaments as well as a few straight pool tourneys. Ronnie use to run 8 and out virtually like Efren does. I am not saying Ronnie would be the favorite but anyone who thinks Ronnie Allen would have needed 10-7 and alike are nuts. 9-8 or 8-7 is how they would have played.


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08-05-2006, 04:21 AM

With this such an absurd post, I think Ronnie could spot Efren 8/7 or easily 10/8 one handed in the air, remember he was so good at the time he HAD to play in the air.
  
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08-05-2006, 04:31 AM

Dunno about the post above, alot of old timers are saying that Efren is the most dominant one-pocket player they have ever seen, and they know Ronnie's game very well.

I am a young man, but let me put this issue to rest on the Efren vs Ronnie playing one pocket. I am friends with an old man named Ron Scott, he is paralyzed from the waist down, and he is in a wheel chair. He is Ronnie's best friend. This guy Ron has travelled with Ronnie everywhere, staking him, watching the action, etc. I brought up the subject of Efren, and how would they play in one pocket. He told me that Ronnie has the edge in the banks department. Ronnie banks balls out of nowhere and runs 8-and out. But overall, Efren has the edge on Ronnie in moves, running balls, creativity, and most especially cueball control. He told me that Efren knows the game so well, he knows every possible bank that can exist, even some which he wouldn't try to execute, but he would suffocate Ronnie. He would not let Ronnie get a breath of air. He said that Efren would have a slight edge over Ronnie in his PRIME. Feel free to ask Ron about it if you know him, he will say the same thing. Ron S. Knows Ronnie Allen and his game better than all of you on this board. He was his road partner for years, and they have been the best of friends for decades.

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08-05-2006, 05:32 AM

Thats pretty much how I would have guessed it, but holy cr*p what a match that would be to watch!

Efren and Ronnie IMO are the most fun guy to watch playing 1P!


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What A Match It Would Be
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What A Match It Would Be - 08-05-2006, 05:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive
With this such an absurd post, I think Ronnie could spot Efren 8/7 or easily 10/8 one handed in the air, remember he was so good at the time he HAD to play in the air.
Ronnie and Efren, in their prime, would be similar to Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus. Just like Tiger and Jack there is no way to ever know how it would play out. IMHO they would match up pretty even.
  
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08-05-2006, 07:10 AM

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Originally Posted by KCarson
Ronnie and Efren, in their prime, would be similar to Tiger Woods and Jack Nicklaus. Just like Tiger and Jack there is no way to ever know how it would play out. IMHO they would match up pretty even.
Except "in the air" Ronnie would 'own em'. I saw Ronnie run 8 and out two in a row in the air giving a guy 8/5, it was absurd to watch, one could not even concieve doing this. I have to agree on the banking issue, RA the first guy I ever heard call it 'Whitey' was rock solid at the bank, in more ways than one.

Last edited by Island Drive; 08-05-2006 at 07:14 AM.
  
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08-05-2006, 07:10 AM

Ronnie Allen was actually asked this question on an Accu-Stat tape and his response was:

"He might get the money, but he'd be too tired to spend it"

Even Ronnie seems to indicate that Efren is the best he's ever seen but its close. I don't think Efren could give Ronnie, Breit, or other top players 10-7 and consistently win when they were in their prime. The Jersey Red section of Hustler Days has stories of him giving up 15-5 and running 15-n-out numerous times. Ronnie and Red were within a ball of each other when they matched up.

Efren's the best but these guys were still damn good players; no offense to Larry Nevel but I don't think he has anywhere near the 1-P knowledge of some of the old greats.

I still need to see Efren and Cliff match up in $$ games, though, to see todays two best players go at it. Cliff is so good at the game but just can't seem to beat Efren.
  
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08-05-2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemicudas
It is so easy to forget who invented “Offensive” one pocket, Ronnie Allen. Ronnie won many 9 ball tournaments as well as a few straight pool tourneys. Ronnie use to run 8 and out virtually like Efren does. I am not saying Ronnie would be the favorite but anyone who thinks Ronnie Allen would have needed 10-7 and alike are nuts. 9-8 or 8-7 is how they would have played.
Agreed. Anybody that gives Ronnie Allen weight in 1 pocket is an idiot, I don't care who you are.


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08-05-2006, 12:45 PM

For those who care to know. I was real good friends with Johnny Ervolino and he once stayed at my house for a month teaching me 1 pocket. I used to ask him questions about different players all the time. I said back in the 60's and 70's who was the best 1 pocket player. He told me Ronnie Allen impressed the hell out of him and he said Ronnie was so unbelievably offensive. The shots he came with were brutal. But he said after seeing Efren play 1 pocket he is hands down the best 1 pocket player he ever saw.
  
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Ronnie's One Hole Game vs. Efren
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jay helfert
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Ronnie's One Hole Game vs. Efren - 08-05-2006, 01:05 PM

First of all, I know Ronnie Scott and he is NOT the final authority on Ronnie's game, or anything else for that matter. He is very opinionated and more often way off base in my own opinion. He could play a little himself once upon a time.

How good did Ronnie play? DAMN GOOD! Too dominate One Pocket in an era of many great players is quite an accomplishment. And, in my opinion, those great players (Jersey Red, Cornbread, Kelly, Shorty, Ervolino, Taylor, Bugs) were every bit as good as the best players today. I'd like to hear from Buddy, Allen H., Sigel, Nick and Rempe who all saw them play.

Could Ronnie bank? He played a ball (10-8 or 8-7) under Bugs. Moves? He had them all, and could probably teach Effie a few things. Run out ability? Forget about eight and out. Ronnie usually had to run ten and out to win. And he ran the ten over and over. Shotmaking? No one could make a tough shot to continue a run or make the out ball like Ronnie.

Combinations? Not even close between Ronnie and Efren. Efren wouldn't even shoot the combinations Ronnie would fire at. Knowledge of the pack? Again Ronnie is the favorite here. Kicking ability? Sorry, I have to give the nod to Ronnie once again. Over and over again, he would kick his way out of traps or begin runs with an amazing kick.

And Ronnie had the heart to bury a guy when he had 'em down. He was a fearless gambler. And no bet was too big for him. In fact, the higher the bet, the better he played. Once again, Ronnie had HEART!

So what does Efren do better than Ronnie? He can run balls when they are down table better than anyone I've ever seen. His position play is without equal. I love how he lays the cue ball in the perfect opening time after time.

So who do I think is the better player. It is like comparing Nicklaus and Tiger. My personal belief is that the Ronnie of the 70's would have made Efren's head spin. He had a way of taking the heart out of a guy. Efren has a way of looking for the exit if the game looks a little too tough. Ronnie had absolutely no quit in him. He was a bulldog!

And if anyone believes that Efren could have spotted Ronnie, they're dreaming. Giving Ronnie the break was suicide. He would give up balls and take the break. It was one of his gaff games.

As beautiful as Efren's One Pocket game is, Ronnie had more weapons. And knew how to use them. Yes, Ronnie may have made the statement attributed to Billy. This is after Efren beat Ronnie giving him weight at Hard Times (8-7 and the break). But it was an old, tired Ronnie that Efren beat.

The 30 to 45 year old Ronnie may have been the best One Pocket player who ever lived. And that is my humble opinion.

Last edited by jay helfert; 08-05-2006 at 01:17 PM.
  
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No Argument
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No Argument - 08-05-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebighurt
For those who care to know. I was real good friends with Johnny Ervolino and he once stayed at my house for a month teaching me 1 pocket. I used to ask him questions about different players all the time. I said back in the 60's and 70's who was the best 1 pocket player. He told me Ronnie Allen impressed the hell out of him and he said Ronnie was so unbelievably offensive. The shots he came with were brutal. But he said after seeing Efren play 1 pocket he is hands down the best 1 pocket player he ever saw.
I don't think anyone her is arguing who is the greatest one pocket player ever. That distinction has to go to Efren. Even Ronnie would probably agree today. The correct spot is the only thing in question and it is purely hypothetical. Knowledgeable one pocket players who have seen and played Ronnie in his prime will tell you anything over a ball would favor Ronnie.


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08-05-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebighurt
For those who care to know. I was real good friends with Johnny Ervolino and he once stayed at my house for a month teaching me 1 pocket. I used to ask him questions about different players all the time. I said back in the 60's and 70's who was the best 1 pocket player. He told me Ronnie Allen impressed the hell out of him and he said Ronnie was so unbelievably offensive. The shots he came with were brutal. But he said after seeing Efren play 1 pocket he is hands down the best 1 pocket player he ever saw.
Johnny was a great player, but as a handicapper, he was less than stellar, often betting on the losing side. Johnny and I were on opposite sides of more than a few side bets. And he staked his share of losing players. Gambling on his own he was one of the best, and even said more than once, he should only bet on himself.

Even the esteemed Billy I. pulled me up from betting against his line at a tourney or two. In fact, he often would come up to me and ask about a match and how someone played.

My record sidebetting is maybe as good as anyone the last 30 years. And I've staked a few winners also, including Mr. R. Allen, Keith, Danny Medina, Louie, Bob Hunter, Chris MacDonald and most recently Tang Hoa.
  
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