Low Deflection vs Standard Deflection Cues

9ball101 said:

It is so much easier to control the cue ball with proper stroke and feel of a standard cue.

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Here's what I think.

Professionals are professionals. Low squirt, high squirt. They can get there with whatever, given the the time they want to put into the cue.

For amateurs, if you already can make shot with english (inside or outside), and you're not going to spend 40 hours a week at this game any time soon, then normal deflection will be for you. And there's no reason anyone should try to make you feel any different.


For amateurs, if you had issues with english, especially with inside, then if a low deflection shaft helped you make a higher percentage of those shots, then more power to you!!! Great!. But stop telling other amateurs who already could make shots with inside and outside english that they are somehow wrong. Both sides are fine. And neither are the other side.

Freddie <~~~ and normal squirt is fine by me.

I like looking at it like neither is "better", they are both just different.

I like both my self but I do play full time with a OB shaft I've been thinking of going too a Josey Timeless shaft but haven't yet but I always seem too go back too OB

Busboy said:

I like both my self but I do play fool time with a OB shaft...

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Hmmm...you dissin' low-deflection cues with a Freudian slip?

I've played with both types for significant periods of time as well. I switched to a Cutec (Earl Strickland model) for no reason other than I could keep it in the trunk of my car in both Winter & Summer without the fear of the shaft warping. It played fine, a little too much a of a "dead hit" feeling for me, but overall I liked it. Currently I play with a Lucasi Hybrid and I'm very happy with it. I find the precision of the hit forces me to put more focus & concentration into my execution of shots. Does the credit for my improvement belong to the stick or my perception and rendering of what's necessary to properly use the stick? Who can say for sure.

For me, it goes back to Eric Clapton's lyric's from the Color of Money's theme song: "It's In The Way That You Use It". -Z-

Well put....

Cornerman said:

Here's what I think.

Professionals are professionals. Low squirt, high squirt. They can get there with whatever, given the the time they want to put into the cue.

For amateurs, if you already can make shot with english (inside or outside), and you're not going to spend 40 hours a week at this game any time soon, then normal deflection will be for you. And there's no reason anyone should try to make you feel any different.


For amateurs, if you had issues with english, especially with inside, then if a low deflection shaft helped you make a higher percentage of those shots, then more power to you!!! Great!. But stop telling other amateurs who already could make shots with inside and outside english that they are somehow wrong. Both sides are fine. And neither are the other side.

Freddie <~~~ and normal squirt is fine by me.

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Nicely stated, Fred. I agree. I've played with many low deflection shafts (Predator, OB, and others) and liked OB best, but right now I'm playing with a non-low deflection shaft and liking it just fine.

9ball101 said:

... why do so many people play with low deflection cues, and what is there appeal since they do feel so dead.

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The complete list of advantages (and disadvantages) of LD shafts can be found on the low squirt (low deflection or LD) shaft resource page. Concerning the feel and sound of the cue, many people care only what the CB does, not how the cue feels or sounds in the process.

Regards,
Dave

9ball101 said:

I know this has been brought up many times but I wanted to add my .02 cents. I have been playing pool about 10 years now. I started for the first five years were all standard deflection cues. My first nice cue I ever owned was a Judd JT-4. I played with that for a while then switched to a southwest which I didn't like as much. So after my journey with standard deflection cues I switched to Low deflection cues. I was playing with a predator sneaky and stuck with Predator for a long time. Then a friend of mine, JJ, here on the forums, handed me a Mezz EC-7 with a wd-700 shaft with a kamui tip. Note, that Up to this point I had always played with Le pro tips and then switched to moori meds. This cue had a Kamui Soft on it and I loved it, so naturally as a pool player I went and bought a Mezz.

I bought a Mezz ZZ-08 that I had up until last year when it was stolen out of a pool hall when I went to the bathroom. So, looking for another mezz, I bought a few, and liked them then I was handed a Cuetec 360 and thought it hit pretty good.

So I Tried to learn the deflection on the Cuetecs and they just deflect differently than anything and I didn't want to spend the time to learn it.

So after many years, I went back to my southwest and fell in love again with custom cues.
So my questions are why do so many people play with low deflection cues, and what is there appeal since they do feel so dead. Something that I did not realize until switching back to a standard cue.

It is so much easier to control the cue ball with proper stroke and feel of a standard cue. Anyways, Amazing how life brings up back full circle sometimes huh.

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Right now I'm doing a study on the deflection/squirt scenario and using mainly standard maple shafts because that is what people generally first start playing with and I am finding that there are some standards you can come up with concerning squirt for each type of shaft and therefore learn a lot quicker how to cope with the new equipment if that is what you intend to play with.

Lets face it for a new player that has the cash and wont be masse shooting a lot, less squirt might be better for their game. Now later on when playing One Pocket and Banks I'm not so convinced yet. So there are a lot of arguments on why learning to play with Standard Maple is a good thing but they are all different in several qualities.
I think you need to understand by reading what other people say about their experiences with playing with them to decide how you are going to learn to play then plan on sticking to whatever you decide on for enough time to be able to learn what the differences truly are.

Less is better or is it?

9ball101 said:

I know this has been brought up many times but I wanted to add my .02 cents. I have been playing pool about 10 years now. I started for the first five years were all standard deflection cues. My first nice cue I ever owned was a Judd JT-4. I played with that for a while then switched to a southwest which I didn't like as much. So after my journey with standard deflection cues I switched to Low deflection cues. I was playing with a predator sneaky and stuck with Predator for a long time. Then a friend of mine, JJ, here on the forums, handed me a Mezz EC-7 with a wd-700 shaft with a kamui tip. Note, that Up to this point I had always played with Le pro tips and then switched to moori meds. This cue had a Kamui Soft on it and I loved it, so naturally as a pool player I went and bought a Mezz.

I bought a Mezz ZZ-08 that I had up until last year when it was stolen out of a pool hall when I went to the bathroom. So, looking for another mezz, I bought a few, and liked them then I was handed a Cuetec 360 and thought it hit pretty good.

So I Tried to learn the deflection on the Cuetecs and they just deflect differently than anything and I didn't want to spend the time to learn it.

So after many years, I went back to my southwest and fell in love again with custom cues.
So my questions are why do so many people play with low deflection cues, and what is there appeal since they do feel so dead. Something that I did not realize until switching back to a standard cue.

It is so much easier to control the cue ball with proper stroke and feel of a standard cue. Anyways, Amazing how life brings up back full circle sometimes huh.

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Yea, no kidding.

CJ Wiley was right. At least in my case. After messing with LD for some time now, I "felt" that the deflection wasn't always the same when I would contact the ball. It could have very well been me, I suppose, but consider this: I am now currently playing with a higher end Leon Sly cue with a Lakewood shaft (G2 tip, but I don't think that matters as much-but it might and I'll explain later). I am now making more balls and getting better shape than with anything else, including LD shafts. Oddly enough, I also have to agree that I can "feel" the shot better and the deflection is very consistent. I have a better idea where the cue ball ends up especially when I have to cinch a shot in, or place a close safe.

Getting to the tip.... I was told (and I can't remember where??) that Earl Strickland likes to use Elkmaster because the deflection is very consistent and that is why he doesn't like a layered tip (I am sure plenty of other tips would do the same thing as an Elkmaster). He feels the deflection is inconsistent as well (layered tips). So again, it goes back to things feeling the same every single time and knowing how it will react the same every single time. Oddly enough, I know another pro player that shoots with a LD shaft WITH an elkmaster tip. I have seen him play with his regular shaft or LD and he glides around the table just fine with either.

So, that all being mentioned, maybe the majority is actually in the tip and not the shaft. Probably a bit in both I would say. I still think you can get used to anything, but if your equipment delivers inconsistent deflection, there is no way you will ever play your best unless every shot is near-straight in. We all know that won't happen and the other thing to consider would be kicking balls with the same inconsistency. Once again, oddly enough, I kick balls better with the above mentioned cue and shaft than I did with using any other cue and a LD shaft.

To wrap this up, maybe the majority of this is just me. Possible that if I was just better, it would nullify the effects of inconsistency. Whatever the case, I think there is some truth to it. What percentage that is, well, that would have to be determined.

My opinion on this subject is that the first person to say anything about Indians or arrows gets banned.

dr_dave said:

The complete list of advantages (and disadvantages) of LD shafts can be found on the low squirt (low deflection or LD) shaft resource page. Concerning the feel and sound of the cue, many people care only what the CB does, not how the cue feels or sounds in the process.

Regards,
Dave

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Exactly. They do the same with metal baseball bats. The less expensive models, with a lower grade type metal, has a fantastic sound, it sounds (big ping) like you are crushing the ball. SO, kids try them at the batting cages before they buy them. But then, out on the field, they soon realize there is a reason a bat only costs $100 versus the top of the line bat at $400.. (never seen a bat reach $500 yet).

You're banned lol...

Oooorrrrr.....

9ball101 said:

Yes, That they are. They are definitely different. After using both for a while, both have their good points and bad points. I really like the fact that with a low deflection cue I can really juice the cue ball with inside spin and be pretty confident im going to make the ball. I have learned how to do that with Standard cues too, but not as consistent. I guess the point, is don't use inside. HAHAHAHA

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Or, you can just have me make you one of my LD shafts that has normal feel for your southwest, or convert one of your southwest shafts to LD with feel...

Jaden

You can try my shaft when you come out for the swannee and decide then..

p.p.s This is funny as shit since you're the one who got me using LD shafts and now I'm using one and you're not...lol

Sound

dr_dave said:

The complete list of advantages (and disadvantages) of LD shafts can be found on the low squirt (low deflection or LD) shaft resource page. Concerning the feel and sound of the cue, many people care only what the CB does, not how the cue feels or sounds in the process.

Regards,
Dave

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Dave

You should post how many cuemaker listen to the shafts harmonics before the shaft leaves the shop or factory in the ask the cue maker section.

There is many people who care about sound and feed back or feel.

If the shafts sounds dead or cracked I don't want it.....................................
I have to many shafts that feel great sounds solid and shoots great too.


How many people don't buy a car just because the sound the doors made when they were shut ?
Which car are you going to buy ?
The car drives great but the doors rattle.
The car drive great feels great and doesn't have any weird sounds.


Sound and vibration and feel is extremely important to me, and to allot of the cue makers I have talked to.

The shafts that have a buzz sound to them don't make it out of most custom cue makers shop........... because they are considered defective.

As a beginner, I hadn't played enough to get used to standard deflection and when I tried a low deflection shaft (Predator 314-2) I liked the feel. I use that with a Lucasi Hybrid butt so the combination results in very little deflection or distortion. I like the feel so that's what I'm sticking with for now.

As for having enough ability to make use of it... No and I probably won't any time soon. No one can keep rich old dudes from buying Ferraris they can't possibly drive enough though.

A (well done) LD shaft shortens the learning curve at the beginning. (if it s a LD shaft with a repeatable result )

But anyhow-- there are also sensational good cuemakers who *know their job* and are also able to produce a shaft without any *typical ld things included) (hole, ferrule etc). -- and still have very good results if it s about the deflection.

i just can say, that for example shafts from Keith and Darrin are a bomb--- hitting like a bomb- and have VERY good results if its about ld.

with those LD shafts from one brand (biggest on marked ) i just have had good laughs- weight differences from 91 to 115 gram-- 5 shafts- and noone was nearly the same. .....


again-- a LD shaft which is well done, and have really repeatable results. will shorten the learning curve (also becaue it forgives much more ).

lg from overseas,

mortuarymike-nv said:

dr_dave said:

The complete list of advantages (and disadvantages) of LD shafts can be found on the low squirt (low deflection or LD) shaft resource page. Concerning the feel and sound of the cue, many people care only what the CB does, not how the cue feels or sounds in the process.

Click to expand...

Dave

You should post how many cuemaker listen to the shafts harmonics before the shaft leaves the shop or factory in the ask the cue maker section.

There is many people who care about sound and feed back or feel.

If the shafts sounds dead or cracked I don't want it.....................................
I have to many shafts that feel great sounds solid and shoots great too.


How many people don't buy a car just because the sound the doors made when they were shut ?
Which car are you going to buy ?
The car drives great but the doors rattle.
The car drive great feels great and doesn't have any weird sounds.

Sound and vibration and feel is extremely important to me, and to allot of the cue makers I have talked to.

The shafts that have a buzz sound to them don't make it out of most custom cue makers shop........... because they are considered defective.

Click to expand...

Mike,

Obviously, if the sound of a cue indicates a flaw in materials or cue construction, that represents a real problem. However, if a cue has no material or construction flaws, then the sound is less important to many. Personally, as long as the CB does what I want it to do, I don't care how the hit sounds or feels. Now, if the sound or feel indicates a problem with the cue (e.g., a cracked or lose ferule, the tip not holding chalk properly, or a lose joint), then I would not want to use the cue again until I resolved the problem.

Catch you later,
Dave