Extremely Important Shot

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is no doubt in my mind, if you want to play top level 9-Ball, 10-Ball, etc, that the attached shot is one of if not the most important shots you need to master. This shot (or similar variations) comes up all the time. And when I say all the time I mean it comes up a TON!

If you cant perform this shot on the 1-Ball and get position consistently on the 2-Ball where the yellow CB and red CB are you need to practice it. And practice and practice and practice until you own this shot, and shots similar to it.

What do you Instructors or itinerant Instructors think? Would you agree that this shot is one your students absolutely need in their arsenal?

r/Mike


https://pad.chalkysticks.com/f427b
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
There is no doubt in my mind, if you want to play top level 9-Ball, 10-Ball, etc, that the attached shot is one of if not the most important shots you need to master. This shot (or similar variations) comes up all the time. And when I say all the time I mean it comes up a TON!

If you cant perform this shot on the 1-Ball and get position consistently on the 2-Ball where the yellow CB and red CB are you need to practice it. And practice and practice and practice until you own this shot, and shots similar to it.

What do you Instructors or itinerant Instructors think? Would you agree that this shot is one your students absolutely need in their arsenal?

r/Mike


https://pad.chalkysticks.com/f427b
Click to expand...

Mike,

This is the second layout that you have posted that the intended cue balls are relatively far away from the next object ball.

What is wrong with being closer to the OB?

Also, what is wrong with going to the other side of the 2 ball as the 1 ball is farther down table?

All the Best.

PS I was shooting shots like that when I was 13/14 years old & then going to other side of the 2 when I was 15.
 
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Have you ever watched Burt Kinisters 60 minute workout for 9 ball?

Excellent tape.

DrCue'sProtege said:
There is no doubt in my mind, if you want to play top level 9-Ball, 10-Ball, etc, that the attached shot is one of if not the most important shots you need to master. This shot (or similar variations) comes up all the time. And when I say all the time I mean it comes up a TON!

If you cant perform this shot on the 1-Ball and get position consistently on the 2-Ball where the yellow CB and red CB are you need to practice it. And practice and practice and practice until you own this shot, and shots similar to it.

What do you Instructors or itinerant Instructors think? Would you agree that this shot is one your students absolutely need in their arsenal?

r/Mike


https://pad.chalkysticks.com/f427b
Click to expand...
 
ENGLISH! said:
Mike,

This is the second layout that you have posted that the intended cue balls are relatively far away from the next object ball.

What is wrong with being closer to the OB?

Also, what is wrong with going to the other side of the 2 ball as the 1 ball is farther down table?
Click to expand...

Nothing is wrong with being closer to the OB. I guess players need to tell their opponents that when they miss to be sure and leave the CB as close to the OB as you can for me. The point being we don't always get what we want at the table.

And nothing is wrong with going to the other side of the 2-Ball. But the point being is that this is a shot you need to master so I assume going to the other side of the 2-Ball is not an option, assume its path up table is blocked.

The whole point here is not to play these shots other ways. Rather be able to master these shots as described.

r/Mike
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
Nothing is wrong with being closer to the OB. I guess players need to tell their opponents that when they miss to be sure and leave the CB as close to the OB as you can for me. The point being we don't always get what we want at the table.

And nothing is wrong with going to the other side of the 2-Ball. But the point being is that this is a shot you need to master so I assume going to the other side of the 2-Ball is not an option, assume its path up table is blocked.

The whole point here is not to play these shots other ways. Rather be able to master these shots as described.

r/Mike
Click to expand...

Okay,

Thanks for the clarification.

You can do it with the right amount of speed & draw or the right amount of speed & equator side spin or the right amount of speed & combination spin.

It's a rather common shot that comes up... so yes... one should master it... but should also look for other options when they are available like going to the other side when that is the easier more simple option.
 
ENGLISH! said:
Mike,

This is the second layout that you have posted that the intended cue balls are relatively far away from the next object ball.

What is wrong with being closer to the OB?

Also, what is wrong with going to the other side of the 2 ball as the 1 ball is farther down table?

All the Best.

PS I was shooting shots like that when I 13/14 year old & then going to other side of the 2 when I was 15.
Click to expand...

I'll answer that question, Rick. I like the position that was posted because it keeps the cue ball clear of a possible scratch in the side. Also, depending on the angle you get, being closer to the 2 ball can create a stretching issue.

I'm not a fan of being on the back-cut side of the ball because it creates a possible pocketing issue where you have to watch your speed.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
There is no doubt in my mind, if you want to play top level 9-Ball, 10-Ball, etc, that the attached shot is one of if not the most important shots you need to master. This shot (or similar variations) comes up all the time. And when I say all the time I mean it comes up a TON!

If you cant perform this shot on the 1-Ball and get position consistently on the 2-Ball where the yellow CB and red CB are you need to practice it. And practice and practice and practice until you own this shot, and shots similar to it.

What do you Instructors or itinerant Instructors think? Would you agree that this shot is one your students absolutely need in their arsenal?

r/Mike


https://pad.chalkysticks.com/f427b
Click to expand...


I agree wholeheartedly. It's a shot that must be mastered for rotation games.
 
The red and yellow dots are too close to the side pockets. You will scratch more often than is acceptable trying to land on those dots. If I'm shooting these shots I opt for a longer pot on the 2,but make sure of missing the side by at least a diamond and end up further up table.

If you mean shooting the shot so you don't contact the rail on the opposite side (taking the side pocket out of the equation) then fair enough.

Depending on where the 3 ball is in game situations depends on if you have to zig zag across table or if you can just use the 1 rail for position for an angle on the 2. So its good to practise both and feel comfortable with both. I like shooting these with more side spin rather than draw. I've hit enough of these shots and got a kick or skid that zaps the draw from the cue ball and ended up scratching.
 
FranCrimi said:
I'll answer that question, Rick. I like the position that was posted because it keeps the cue ball clear of a possible scratch in the side. Also, depending on the angle you get, being closer to the 2 ball can create a stretching issue.

I'm not a fan of being on the back-cut side of the ball because it creates a possible pocketing issue where you have to watch your speed.
Click to expand...

I hear you, Fran

But I would make sure to come up well short of the scratch in the side.

Naturally if one has no faith or confidence in their speed control the other option would probably be safer.

Perhaps it's just my preference to be closer whenever possible.

As tall as you are, how would a ball near the side pocket be a stretching issues? I'm 5'9" & it would not be one for me, at least not on less than a 10 footer.

All Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick
 
Pidge said:
The red and yellow dots are too close to the side pockets. You will scratch more often than is acceptable trying to land on those dots. If I'm shooting these shots I opt for a longer pot on the 2,but make sure of missing the side by at least a diamond and end up further up table.

If you mean shooting the shot so you don't contact the rail on the opposite side (taking the side pocket out of the equation) then fair enough.

Depending on where the 3 ball is in game situations depends on if you have to zig zag across table or if you can just use the 1 rail for position for an angle on the 2. So its good to practise both and feel comfortable with both. I like shooting these with more side spin rather than draw. I've hit enough of these shots and got a kick or skid that zaps the draw from the cue ball and ended up scratching.
Click to expand...


Regarding skids caused by the chalk mark on the cb making contact with the ob --- I have found that low outside is a pretty safe bet, but high outside is really where the danger lurks. I tend to think that with low outside, the chalk mark wipes off a bit quicker due to the cue ball sliding more when backspin is applied.
 
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FranCrimi said:
Regarding skids caused by the chalk mark on the cb making contact with the ob --- I have found that low outside is a pretty safe bet, but high outside is really where the danger lurks. I tend to think that with low outside, the chalk mark wipes off a bit quicker due to the cue ball sliding more when backspin is applied.
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I agree completely with your analysis but my view on why this happens differs.

I've noticed that when I get a kick whilst using a high cue ball the vast majority of the time the cue ball hops.

When using a low cue ball and I get a kick the object ball hops (although the cue ball doesn't hop here in my experience a lot of the draw and pace is zapped from the white).

When using stun both seem to hop off the table slightly having the worst possible effect... Bad position and possibly missing the pot also.

I have noticed that with gearing outside spin that it's extremely rare I get a kick. I'm estimating one in every 1-200 shots with gearing outside.
 
Pidge said:
... I have noticed that with gearing outside spin that it's extremely rare I get a kick. I'm estimating one in every 1-200 shots with gearing outside.
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In theory, with gearing stun it should be impossible to get a kick. Draw and follow are still potential problems, though.
 
Bob Jewett said:
In theory, with gearing stun it should be impossible to get a kick. Draw and follow are still potential problems, though.
Click to expand...
In reality? They're rare, but I do get them. Or it could be that I'm not actually perfectly stunning the white and it may have a little follow or draw.

Have any tests been done on kicks for high vs low kicks? Every time I miss the pot due to a kick it's because I've hit it with draw. Every time I'm way off position due to a kick but made the pot it's because I hit with topspin.
 
Pidge said:
In reality? They're rare, but I do get them. Or it could be that I'm not actually perfectly stunning the white and it may have a little follow or draw.

Have any tests been done on kicks for high vs low kicks? Every time I miss the pot due to a kick it's because I've hit it with draw. Every time I'm way off position due to a kick but made the pot it's because I hit with topspin.
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I don't think anyone has done tests to compare high/low.

There are some examples of draw-killer kicks at snooker on YouTube. Of course there are many follow-killer examples.
 
I might add that I was watching an Accu-Stats video the other day and I believe it was Grady Mathews that said a player absolutely has to have the ability to go across the table to get position. The shot we are talking about here is one that requires you to go across table. And its one that I have been struggling with lately on my new 4.25 inch pockets.

I am going to go and practice this shot for a couple of hours.

r/Mike
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
I might add that I was watching an Accu-Stats video the other day and I believe it was Grady Mathews that said a player absolutely has to have the ability to go across the table to get position. The shot we are talking about here is one that requires you to go across table. And its one that I have been struggling with lately on my new 4.25 inch pockets.

I am going to go and practice this shot for a couple of hours.

r/Mike
Click to expand...

This shot requires trust. The more you try to control it, the worse the result. You have to let go and give it a full stroke and trust it. Use backspin to kill the speed and keep your grip relaxed. Good timing is essential. Make sure you follow-through.
 
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