instructors comments on this help for vision center impared students

B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
when you line up for the shot
put the cue stick up close to parallel ( not close to your face)to your face
you should now see 2 cue sticks and keep the image BETWEEN the two imaginary sticks
DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD AND COME STRAIGHT DOWN ON THAT LINE
that should keep you on your visual center
your comments agree or not are always appeciated
 
What does visual center mean? Doesn't the word 'center' refer to middle? Middle of what? Middle of your vision? Oh wait. You're referring to that whole made up term, 'vision center,' which I can only equate to a chain of stores in the North East United States that sells eye glasses. At least they're using the word 'center' in a way that makes sense.

But all kidding aside --- I think you're referring to the line of sight -- a much better term that didn't need redefining. As far as seeing two cue sticks --- I try not to see two of anything.
 
Last edited:
FranCrimi said:
What does visual center mean? Doesn't the word 'center' refer to middle? Middle of what? Middle of your vision? Oh wait. You're referring to that whole made up term, 'vision center,' which I can only equate to a chain of stores in the North East United States that sells eye glasses. At least they're using the word 'center' in a way that makes sense.

But all kidding aside --- I think you're referring to the line of sight -- a much better term that didn't need redefining. As far as seeing two cue sticks --- I try not to see two of anything.
Click to expand...

drdave vision center
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680o8EChP_o
i guess line of sight is another way to phrase it
 
FranCrimi said:
I think 'line of sight' is the proper way to define it.
Click to expand...
but the issue is for people like me who dont naturally know when they are on or off the line of sight (i tend to get left spin and cue ball to right when doing stop shots)
lining my sight along the center of the 2 sticks gets me on the correct line
much better stop shots
less unintentional spin
and i feel more "in line" when down on the shot
 
bbb said:
but the issue is for people like me who dont naturally know when they are on or off the line of sight (i tend to get left spin and cue ball to right when doing stop shots)
lining my sight along the center of the 2 sticks gets me on the correct line
much better stop shots
less unintentional spin
and i feel more "in line" when down on the shot
Click to expand...

My friend Gene Nagy (RIP) who was a great player and innovator, would have liked you --- And that's a compliment --- Because you think out of the box. Hey, you have to experiment, and that's exactly what you're doing. Keep experimenting. You may discover something new.

Just keep in mind that you will only know if you have a success on your hands if it stands the test of time --- and competition. Early on, lots of things seem to work, but they fail over time and under the pressure of competition.

Most people don't have what it takes to discover something new because they aren't willing to put their games on the line long enough to truly test out the experiment.
 
FranCrimi said:
My friend Gene Nagy (RIP) who was a great player and innovator, would have liked you --- And that's a compliment --- Because you think out of the box. Hey, you have to experiment, and that's exactly what you're doing. Keep experimenting. You may discover something new.

Just keep in mind that you will only know if you have a success on your hands if it stands the test of time --- and competition. Early on, lots of things seem to work, but they fail over time and under the pressure of competition.

Most people don't have what it takes to discover something new because they aren't willing to put their games on the line long enough to truly test out the experiment.
Click to expand...

thanks for the compliment fran
we will see what happens over time
since my head is in a new position its taking time to adjust to the new picture i see
(i was so used to trusting my alignment from behind the shot so that if things didnt look right when down i would trust my stroke and shoot)
i will let you know how the experiment works as i test it over time and competition
 
bbb said:
drdave vision center
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680o8EChP_o
i guess line of sight is another way to phrase it
Click to expand...

Have you watched this video carefully ?

Can you explain why from 2.19-2.25 the cue ends up to the left of the shot line ?
He is shooting a perfect straight in shot with his "vision center" aligned properly, but I think you can see the steering of the cue to the left.
Why does this happen ? Should this happen ?
Maybe he is not aiming center to center ? Is he aiming an offset ? Maybe fundamental flaws ?

There is no such thing as "vision center"

Ok, I could be wrong and should go back watch the video again. Maybe he shoots straight but my "vision center" was a little bit off.......... :grin-square:
 
I think for players struggling with sighting and placing the cue correctly for them under the eyes they need to forget the cue for a second. I always get them to line a simple straight in shot that's nice and short, maybe 1.5ft apart for example and get them to get get down into stance and line the shot up so it looks dead straight. It's important that the cue is down by their side and not in the way of them lining the shot up. Then they need to bring the cue to the cue ball but it's important not to focus on the cue ball but to keep fixated on the object ball and the straight in alignment. Bring the tip to where their peripheral vision tells them centre cue ball and once set and keeping perfectly still simply look at the cue ball and check if it looks like you are aimed through centre ball. Once the tip is in place the instructor stands at the other end of the shot and checks where the tip is aligned through the cue ball and how the entire cue is aligned for the shot. 9/10 players will get down with great alignment, the tip through centre cue ball and hit the shot clean. The other 1/10 time the instructor needs to step in and actually place the cue for them whilst they keep the alignment and visual locked because... More often than not they've been playing a long time and learned to sight shots wrong in such a way that wrong looks right. Unfortunately this is a very timely habit to get out and you have to go against everything you've known visually and right looks wrong.

It's a very simple method without having the cue in your sight line. For what ever reason the cue in your sighting line causes players all kinds of problems, and yet it can cure all kinds of problems for other players. Weird game.
 
I do like the idea of creating a line of aim with an optical illusion to help keep a players sight line from swaying either side of it. I still feel a mirror and some tape is a more effective way to learn this but I admire anyone who has ideas and openly shares them to better serve the game.

One thing you can't do with a mirror is bring it into a match so this is a major advantage of this. People can eye shots perfectly well mostly and have no issues with placing their sighting position over the correct line of aim, but where they fall apart, even very good players... Not so much at the pro level us getting down... In fact even at the pro level. Ronnie O'Sullivan is a prime example... He has learned to aim with the line of aim through the centre, maybe a touch towards his right eye and places the cue over towards his left eye when down. This method gives a way of focusing on keeping the sighting position on the line of aim whilst focusing on the object ball and keeping the line of aim locked.

I like it Larry. Very ingenious.
 
Is there a way to send a word file using Private Messenger to someone?

The reason I ask is because the file is over 700 words.

Thanks

John
 
Pidge said:
I do like the idea of creating a line of aim with an optical illusion to help keep a players sight line from swaying either side of it. I still feel a mirror and some tape is a more effective way to learn this but I admire anyone who has ideas and openly shares them to better serve the game.

One thing you can't do with a mirror is bring it into a match so this is a major advantage of this. People can eye shots perfectly well mostly and have no issues with placing their sighting position over the correct line of aim, but where they fall apart, even very good players... Not so much at the pro level us getting down... In fact even at the pro level. Ronnie O'Sullivan is a prime example... He has learned to aim with the line of aim through the centre, maybe a touch towards his right eye and places the cue over towards his left eye when down. This method gives a way of focusing on keeping the sighting position on the line of aim whilst focusing on the object ball and keeping the line of aim locked.

I like it Larry. Very ingenious.
Click to expand...

I can explain what I think Ronnie is doing. I just need to find out how to send a word file using Private Messenger.

John
 
Pidge said:
I do like the idea of creating a line of aim with an optical illusion to help keep a players sight line from swaying either side of it. I still feel a mirror and some tape is a more effective way to learn this but I admire anyone who has ideas and openly shares them to better serve the game.

One thing you can't do with a mirror is bring it into a match so this is a major advantage of this. People can eye shots perfectly well mostly and have no issues with placing their sighting position over the correct line of aim, but where they fall apart, even very good players... Not so much at the pro level us getting down... In fact even at the pro level. Ronnie O'Sullivan is a prime example... He has learned to aim with the line of aim through the centre, maybe a touch towards his right eye and places the cue over towards his left eye when down. This method gives a way of focusing on keeping the sighting position on the line of aim whilst focusing on the object ball and keeping the line of aim locked.

I like it Larry. Very ingenious.
Click to expand...

Pidge said:
I think for players struggling with sighting and placing the cue correctly for them under the eyes they need to forget the cue for a second. I always get them to line a simple straight in shot that's nice and short, maybe 1.5ft apart for example and get them to get get down into stance and line the shot up so it looks dead straight. It's important that the cue is down by their side and not in the way of them lining the shot up. Then they need to bring the cue to the cue ball but it's important not to focus on the cue ball but to keep fixated on the object ball and the straight in alignment. Bring the tip to where their peripheral vision tells them centre cue ball and once set and keeping perfectly still simply look at the cue ball and check if it looks like you are aimed through centre ball. Once the tip is in place the instructor stands at the other end of the shot and checks where the tip is aligned through the cue ball and how the entire cue is aligned for the shot. 9/10 players will get down with great alignment, the tip through centre cue ball and hit the shot clean. The other 1/10 time the instructor needs to step in and actually place the cue for them whilst they keep the alignment and visual locked because... More often than not they've been playing a long time and learned to sight shots wrong in such a way that wrong looks right. Unfortunately this is a very timely habit to get out and you have to go against everything you've known visually and right looks wrong.

It's a very simple method without having the cue in your sight line. For what ever reason the cue in your sighting line causes players all kinds of problems, and yet it can cure all kinds of problems for other players. Weird game.
Click to expand...
pidge
you have helped me alot via pm and openly on the forum
i appreciate all the time you have invested in me and i have done all that you suggested
the issue with the mirror was since i dont have my chin on the cue
i didnt always get to center when i was playing
maybe i need to go back and re read your pm's and do the work again
i will try your suggestion above with the cue at my side too
thanks again for the help
 
for the record
when i took lessons with hunter lumbardo several years ago
i recall him mentioning looking thru the 2 cues but we never did any drills or alignment on it like i am using it now
i would like acknowledge his help
p.s. he was a terrific teacher
 
bbb said:
when you line up for the shot
put the cue stick up close to parallel ( not close to your face)to your face
you should now see 2 cue sticks and keep the image BETWEEN the two imaginary sticks
DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD AND COME STRAIGHT DOWN ON THAT LINE
that should keep you on your visual center
your comments agree or not are always appeciated
Click to expand...

Having trouble deciphering the first sentences. Where does the cue go in relation to the head to begin?
 
I'm also having trouble imagining the process, sorry.
Do you mean to hold the cue out in front of you, at arms length, vertically? On the shot line, of course....

I'm quite curious, as I also do not get down low enough to have my chin on the cue, and I wonder if I'm where I should be. Having a method to help with that would be great, so I'd love to understand it better. Thanks
 
If the tip ends up offline, then is almost always due to some flaw in how the cuestick is delivered. Just because "line of sight", or "shot line" is something you like better, doesn't make "vision center" (which I happen to agree with) an incorrect term. You semantics nazis need to back off. There's room for everyone to determine their own wording, as long as it means what it's supposed to mean correctly...which vision center does. Where's the professionalism Ms. Instructor in badmouthing another respected instructor's terminology, especially when it violates no definition requirements? :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

ps611846 said:
Have you watched this video carefully ?

Can you explain why from 2.19-2.25 the cue ends up to the left of the shot line ?
He is shooting a perfect straight in shot with his "vision center" aligned properly, but I think you can see the steering of the cue to the left.
Why does this happen ? Should this happen ?
Maybe he is not aiming center to center ? Is he aiming an offset ? Maybe fundamental flaws ?

There is no such thing as "vision center"

Ok, I could be wrong and should go back watch the video again. Maybe he shoots straight but my "vision center" was a little bit off.......... :grin-square:
Click to expand...

FranCrimi said:
What does visual center mean? Doesn't the word 'center' refer to middle? Middle of what? Middle of your vision? Oh wait. You're referring to that whole made up term, 'vision center,' which I can only equate to a chain of stores in the North East United States that sells eye glasses. At least they're using the word 'center' in a way that makes sense.

But all kidding aside --- I think you're referring to the line of sight -- a much better term that didn't need redefining. As far as seeing two cue sticks --- I try not to see two of anything.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Scott Lee said:
If the tip ends up offline, then is almost always due to some flaw in how the cuestick is delivered. Just because "line of sight", or "shot line" is something you like better, doesn't make "vision center" (which I happen to agree with) an incorrect term. You semantics nazis need to back off. There's room for everyone to determine their own wording, as long as it means what it's supposed to mean correctly...which vision center does. Where's the professionalism Ms. Instructor in badmouthing another respected instructor's terminology, especially when it violates no definition requirements? :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

In the first two minutes of the video Dr Dave talks about alignment of the "vision center" with the stick and the line of the shot. They setup a perfect straight-in and Bob plays the shot two times and stops the cue ball.

I don't have any problem with the way Bob shot this straight-in. I shoot it the same way and most players do.

BUT, if things were as Dr Dave describes in the first two minutes of the video his cue should stay on the "center to center" line.

So if Bob was aiming center to center, and his cue moves to the left he would miss the shot or if he made it, the cue ball wouldn't stop.

There is no alignment of his "vision center" to the "center to center" line. And his cue is not on this line as well.

Do you have any answers ?????
 
ps611846 said:
In the first two minutes of the video Dr Dave talks about alignment of the "vision center" with the stick and the line of the shot. They setup a perfect straight-in and Bob plays the shot two times and stops the cue ball.

I don't have any problem with the way Bob shot this straight-in. I shoot it the same way and most players do.

BUT, if things were as Dr Dave describes in the first two minutes of the video his cue should stay on the "center to center" line.

So if Bob was aiming center to center, and his cue moves to the left he would miss the shot or if he made it, the cue ball wouldn't stop.

There is no alignment of his "vision center" to the "center to center" line. And his cue is not on this line as well.

Do you have any answers ?????
Click to expand...
why dont you pm dr dave
he is good at answering questions
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top